Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (17 Viewers)

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chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Flying Fokker said:
Nope...
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It's unbelievable. Less than 40 days ago Vallance was saying a good outcome would be to keep deaths under 20K and we were wondering how the Italian government had let things get so out of control when their death rate was at 2.5K.

On the day we tragically sailed past 20K in hospital deaths alone, estimated to be more than double that in total, Patel is talking about how shoplifting is down. News which shocked nobody given that most of the shops are closed.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Some Lib Dems are doing it to raise money for food banks and to show solidarity, Davey is the vice chair of the APPG for the Ahmadiyya Muslim community.

Don’t see the issue personally.
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If he wants to do it up to him.
But there are over 2 billion Muslims in the world, I'm sure they don't need a lib dems MP to tell them they are not alone.

If he's doing it for charity 5hen good luck though I don't know if he is.
 
Gazolba

Gazolba

Well-Known Member
The CCP (Chinese Communist Party), originators of the Covid-19 virus.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
“Would you rather be in Italy?”

Italian mayor flies his student daughters out of 'unsafe' England | Coronavirus outbreak | The Guardian

;)
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Shmmeee, whoever brought up the original comparison with Italy was wrong, this isn’t some kind of competition. The fact that it’s consistently brought up every time there is bad news about the UK figures is just as bad though in my book.

The fact is all countries will end up suffering badly from this, possibly at different times (different waves etc). If asked though, would I rather be here than Italy, Spain, France etc (as it keeps being sarcastically mentioned by various posters - appreciate this is probably aimed at whoever made the comparison to start with) my answer would be yes. Both for fact that we have remained within our hospital bed and ICU capacities (so far) and the lockdown, which whilst difficult, is no doubt more relaxed than various other countries which will have ultimately have benefited the wider population in unquantifiable ways. In addition I am hoping the furlough scheme will save many businesses from going bust and many hundreds of thousands losing their jobs. Fingers crossed anyway.

Yes, we might have higher spikes of case and death figures but until we know the proportions of the populations that’s had it, whether it can be caught again and until the virus has been dealt with (or better controlled internationally), comparisons are almost irrelevant.

Have we breached ICU capacities which would have caused additional unnecessary deaths ? no. In actual fact we’ve run at a high spare capacity throughout and there are plenty of countries/regions that haven’t been as lucky (outside of Europe I’ve read of japan turning patients away and New York has consistently reached if not breached, capacity)


fernandopartridge said:
This is appalling, I believe the rest of the world is looking on in horror whilst our media worry about that utter fucking c**t Johnson

Click to expand...


Finally, and in answer to the earlier, ‘look how bad our actual deaths are’ post, people are forgetting that this is likely to be the same problem across pretty much every badly hit country ie figures will be initially understated everywhere. An example of this was reflected in the WSJ earlier in the month. I didn’t feel it was appropriate to post at the time for the reasons given above but as there appears to be more focus on our inaccurate (understated) numbers I thought it would be useful to share something to show that every badly hit country will be facing exactly the same problem as ourselves.

Italy’s Coronavirus Death Toll Is Far Higher Than Reported

Anyway, this isn’t a ‘look at how great we are’ post, more a ‘we’re all in this same shit situation together’. We know there have been many issues and challenges, some of which we have not dealt with well, however, this is the early stages of a worldwide pandemic of a totally new virus and I expect a majority of countries will unfortunately have similar challenges/issues either now or in the future. Let’s just hope we can find a vaccine or at least all find a way to deal with it as well as possible

ps I hope everyone can enjoy at least some of the last good weather for a few days (suppose were were due some dodgy days). It’s certainly kept the spirits up over the last few weeks
 
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skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
Shmmeee, whoever brought up the original comparison with Italy was wrong, this isn’t some kind of competition. The fact that it’s consistently brought up every time there is bad news about the UK figures is just as bad though in my book.

The fact is all countries will end up suffering badly from this, possibly at different times (different waves etc). If asked though, would I rather be here than Italy, Spain, France etc (as it keeps being sarcastically mentioned by various posters - appreciate this is probably aimed at whoever made the comparison to start with) my answer would be yes. Both for fact that we have remained within our hospital bed and ICU capacities (so far) and the lockdown, which whilst difficult, is no doubt more relaxed than various other countries which will have ultimately have benefited the wider population in unquantifiable ways. In addition I am hoping the furlough scheme will save many businesses from going bust and many hundreds of thousands losing their jobs. Fingers crossed anyway.

Yes, we might have higher spikes of case and death figures but until we know the proportions of the populations that’s had it, whether it can be caught again and until the virus has been dealt with (or better controlled internationally), comparisons are almost irrelevant.

Have we breached ICU capacities which would have caused additional unnecessary deaths ? no. In actual fact we’ve run at a high spare capacity throughout and there are plenty of countries/regions that haven’t been as lucky (outside of Europe I’ve read of japan turning patients away and New York has consistently reached if not breached, capacity)

Finally, and in answer to the earlier, ‘look how bad our actual deaths are’ post, people are forgetting that this is likely to be the same problem across pretty much every badly hit country ie figures will be initially understated everywhere. An example of this was reflected in the WSJ earlier in the month. I didn’t feel it was appropriate to post at the time for the reasons given above but as there appears to be more focus on our inaccurate (understated) numbers I thought it would be useful to share something to show that every badly hit country will be facing exactly the same problem as ourselves.

Italy’s Coronavirus Death Toll Is Far Higher Than Reported

Anyway, this isn’t a ‘look at how great we are’ post, more a ‘we’re all in this same shit situation together’. We know there have been many issues and challenges, some of which we have not dealt with well, however, this is the early stages of a worldwide pandemic of a totally new virus and I expect a majority of countries will unfortunately have similar challenges/issues either now or in the future. Let’s just hope we can find a vaccine or at least all find a way to deal with it as well as possible

ps I hope everyone can enjoy at least some of the last good weather for a few days (suppose were were due some dodgy days). It’s certainly kept the spirits up over the last few weeks
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Chill Steve. It’s just gallows humour. As the people who started the “would you rather live in Italy” line would tell you. I’m sure.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
Shmmeee, whoever brought up the original comparison with Italy was wrong, this isn’t some kind of competition. The fact that it’s consistently brought up every time there is bad news about the UK figures is just as bad though in my book.

The fact is all countries will end up suffering badly from this, possibly at different times (different waves etc). If asked though, would I rather be here than Italy, Spain, France etc (as it keeps being sarcastically mentioned by various posters - appreciate this is probably aimed at whoever made the comparison to start with) my answer would be yes. Both for fact that we have remained within our hospital bed and ICU capacities (so far) and the lockdown, which whilst difficult, is no doubt more relaxed than various other countries which will have ultimately have benefited the wider population in unquantifiable ways. In addition I am hoping the furlough scheme will save many businesses from going bust and many hundreds of thousands losing their jobs. Fingers crossed anyway.

Yes, we might have higher spikes of case and death figures but until we know the proportions of the populations that’s had it, whether it can be caught again and until the virus has been dealt with (or better controlled internationally), comparisons are almost irrelevant.

Have we breached ICU capacities which would have caused additional unnecessary deaths ? no. In actual fact we’ve run at a high spare capacity throughout and there are plenty of countries/regions that haven’t been as lucky (outside of Europe I’ve read of japan turning patients away and New York has consistently reached if not breached, capacity)

Finally, and in answer to the earlier, ‘look how bad our actual deaths are’ post, people are forgetting that this is likely to be the same problem across pretty much every badly hit country ie figures will be initially understated everywhere. An example of this was reflected in the WSJ earlier in the month. I didn’t feel it was appropriate to post at the time for the reasons given above but as there appears to be more focus on our inaccurate (understated) numbers I thought it would be useful to share something to show that every badly hit country will be facing exactly the same problem as ourselves.

Italy’s Coronavirus Death Toll Is Far Higher Than Reported

Anyway, this isn’t a ‘look at how great we are’ post, more a ‘we’re all in this same shit situation together’. We know there have been many issues and challenges, some of which we have not dealt with well, however, this is the early stages of a worldwide pandemic of a totally new virus and I expect a majority of countries will unfortunately have similar challenges/issues either now or in the future. Let’s just hope we can find a vaccine or at least all find a way to deal with it as well as possible

ps I hope everyone can enjoy at least some of the last good weather for a few days (suppose were were due some dodgy days). It’s certainly kept the spirits up over the last few weeks
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Chill out, I just thought it was funny. I wasn’t trying to make some wider point.

There is a point to make about how the rest of the world views our situation compared to how we do, but this was just referencing an in joke here with an appropriate headline. I don’t think the actions of one Italian mayor means anything.

I’d also note I’ve consistently said you can’t compare strategies until it’s all over.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
This is appalling, I believe the rest of the world is looking on in horror whilst our media worry about that utter fucking c**t Johnson

Click to expand...


What concerns me is seeing some countries start to reopen when we have no effective treatment or vaccine and the virus remains active with question marks over immunity for those who’ve had it.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
What concerns me is seeing some countries start to reopen when we have no effective treatment or vaccine and the virus remains active with question marks over immunity for those who’ve had it.
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If that really is the case though - no immunity - then what realistically are the options
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
If that really is the case though - no immunity - then what realistically are the options
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If there’s no immunity and it isn’t seasonal like the flu then we would need an anti viral. You would then probably need the lower risk groups to go back to work while maintaining whatever distancing could be realistic
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
If that really is the case though - no immunity - then what realistically are the options
Click to expand...

Interesting comment I overheard on the radio earlier was that standard Covid virus immunity is around 79% (I think this what was said) for around 3 years for most people. So I presume it will need quite a bit of testing in relation to re-contagion to understand if there is immunity for at least some (hopefully most) people
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
Interesting comment I overheard on the radio earlier was that standard Covid virus immunity is around 79% (I think this what was said) for around 3 years for most people. So I presume it will need quite a bit of testing in relation to re-contagion to understand if there is immunity for at least some (hopefully most) people
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We just don’t know enough at this point it seems. A quick diagnostic test must be close I’d think
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
We just don’t know enough at this point it seems. A quick diagnostic test must be close I’d think
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Is there any reliable data on what percentage of people who get it actually experiencing symptoms and to what level of severity? Would have thought that was a fairly important thing to establish when working out how to move forward.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Is there any reliable data on what percentage of people who get it actually experiencing symptoms and to what level of severity? Would have thought that was a fairly important thing to establish when working out how to move forward.
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I have a strong feeling that % is quite low but without an effective ‘who’s had it’ test we can only speculate.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I have a strong feeling that % is quite low but without an effective ‘who’s had it’ test we can only speculate.
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It’s bound to be very low and though I’m not in anyway a conspiracy theorist I do think the deaths versus lockdown actions do not match up and you do wonder if the immunity issue is causing these actions
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
It’s bound to be very low and though I’m not in anyway a conspiracy theorist I do think the deaths versus lockdown actions do not match up and you do wonder if the immunity issue is causing these actions
Click to expand...

I’m inclined to agree but we’re missing a few pieces of the jigsaw to justify a return to some kind of normality. We need to reliably know how many have had it and how many have gone on to have moderate or worse symptoms and to also know if there is seasonality and what the immunity is if any
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Surely if there was a high percentage of asymptomatic people it’d show in the South Korean data as they test everyone in contact regardless of symptoms? I’ve not seen any indication that’s the case. Something like 30% asymptomatic in the SK data compared to original WHO estimates of low single digits. So more than WHO thinks but nothing to suggest there’s hundreds of thousands of people who have had it and not known in the U.K. Seems like wishful thinking to me TBH.
 
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