Sick Boy
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The only one ranting away is you.
Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter BackRoomRummermill
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Deleted member 5849
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Tbf, that's what he said
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Good news for Kasta
Grendel
Well-Known Member
He can do his own 3 peaks challenge - Burger King, McDonald’s and KFC in one car trip
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Where are the F Pace and E Pace built?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Only succeeds if he beats the pizza man back to his house
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
BBC reporting that there's no evidence to suggest you can't get it multiple times. Not good news.
Coronavirus updates: 'No evidence' for immunity after recovery - BBC News
Coronavirus updates: 'No evidence' for immunity after recovery - BBC News
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Surely makes developing a vaccine more difficult also. Like you say, bad news.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
If this is correct then we’re banking on anti viral drugs coming through
tisza
Well-Known Member
The way it mutates so quickly makes finding a long-term effective vaccine seem very difficult atm.
Same reason as the "normal" flu vaccine varies from year to year and people are advised to have a new jab each year
Yeah, that’s my understanding as well (I heard witty mention it early doors)....potentially awful news if assessment true/accurate
Fingers crossed its wrong and a majority will be immune, if not, as BSB says, there will be an even greater focus/reliance on managing the virus better (which I’m pretty sure scientists will make decent progress on in the coming weeks and months....until then stock up on domestos !)
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
There was an interesting interview on news night the other day with one of the growing number of Swedish scientists who are saying that the Swedish government has got it wrong. Basically they’re saying that they’ve got it wrong for the very reason you point out, managing the virus through treatment rather than cure. The train of thought being that if you can delay people getting it if only for two weeks the simple fact is that they will have a better chance of survival than they would if they’d caught it 2 weeks earlier because there’s a further 2 weeks knowledge on dealing and managing with the virus in infected people.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I don’t think it’s purely mutation as antibodies do die of over a period of time but mutation certainly is a factor. The flu jab is always based on the previous seasons strain.This virus does seem more resilient than your average flu virus though and it’s ability to mutate quickly I would think is part of that.
That’s a good/fair point. It’s even more relevant if you get don’t immunity through contagion. I suppose it’s one to see how it plays out.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
My understanding was the flu jab was the top three or so predicted strains for that year. Could be wrong though.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
More details of SAGE coming out and its not looking good. Government claiming Cummings and Warner were observers. Ignoring that if they should be attending in that capacity is up for debate other present at the meeting are disputing it and saying they were active participants. That's bad enough but its also being reported the chief scientific advisers from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland were only allowed to observe and not participate.
I know some people were criticising 'lefties' for questioning the follow the science line when our science seemed to differ from every other country but even they must admit this is worrying.
I know some people were criticising 'lefties' for questioning the follow the science line when our science seemed to differ from every other country but even they must admit this is worrying.
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I wouldn’t be surprised to see face masks being at least encouraged as part of the relaxation of restrictions (be surprised if they became mandatory but we’ll see)
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
people positioning themselves to try and ensure it's not them who goes under the bus. In what capacity Cummings was there will be crucial.
This is going to get messy. I don't expect we'll see the minutes of this meeting anytime soon.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The fact that the minutes are just be put out there as proof of what the government is claiming is pretty telling.
I didn’t respond to the original post attaching the article as i found it unclear/contradictory, (so wanted to wait for more info to come out first), for example they had comments from Sir King, who was quite rightly shocked and concerned about Cummings ‘being on the committee’...however, this has been denied by Downing Street
‘Late on Friday, Downing Street released a second statement. “It is not true that Mr Cummings or Dr Warner are ‘on’ or members of Sage. Mr Cummings and Dr Warner have attended some Sage meetings and listen to some meetings now they are all virtual. Occasionally they ask questions or offer help when scientists mention problems in Whitehall,” a No 10 spokesman said’
That’s very different to being ‘on the committee’
From what the article indicates and from what I’ve read elsewhere they were in attendance/observing and asking questions...I presume to try to understand the science but I’m guessing
The two questions I would want answered
1) assuming they aren’t ‘on the committee’, was the scientific advice influenced by Cumming’s attendance
2) did Johnson only get feedback on SAGE meetings via Cummings or has he received it directly from SAGE and the scientists on the committee
ps one week we have the Sunday Times suggesting a lazy/complacent/uninterested approach to Covid-19 by the government in Feb/early March, the following week we have The Guardian suggesting the government were putting people on/influencing SAGE committee during that same period. You can see why people are getting a bit frustrating by the media
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
If they are only observing then why are others present telling the press they were taking an active part. Also if the likes of Cummings are taking part why are the chief scientific advisers from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland not allowed to participate?
Once again the evidence isn't matching what the government is claiming. Our response was different to pretty much every other country and we were told we were following the science. When people queried why our science appeared to be different to the rest of the world they were branded 'lefties' or told to move to Italy.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
The Guardian didn't pluck their article out of thin air, someone fed it to them.
Those involved are trying to make sure they don't end up the scapegoat. Those with scores to settle are going to use this to try and do so.
The Guardian article contains a direct quote from David Lidington and David Davis has being Tweeting:
Do you really think people like Witty and Vallance (and the other scientists on the various committees) would go against their scientific beliefs because of someone like Cummings ?!
There are questions to be answered regarding Cummings attendance as I mention above but I can’t quite get the other stuff
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clint van damme
Well-Known Member
The end decisions aren't theirs though are they?
The question is do I think Cummings would over rule them? Definitely.
I can't believe Davis would Tweet what he's tweeted unless he thought there'd be some blow back on Cummings, they hate each other apparently.
Here's Lidingtons quote from the article:
“I’m not aware of any minister or special adviser, certainly not in Theresa May’s time, ever having been involved in the scientific advisory panels.”
These are senior tories lining up to question the validity of both Cummings presence at the meeting and his contribution. Something is going on.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
The media or the government? The government has quite deliberately chosen to be secretive about who is at/on SAGE. That opens them up for criticism and breeds speculation such as you’ve just highlighted. A strong government would go open book on it now to bring down the vail of mystery, a stronger government wouldn’t have been so secretive in the first place.
As you’ve already highlighted though Clint, there are plenty of axes to grind including people feeling Cummings oversteps/overreaches his position (and want him put back in his box)
I would be shocked (and disgusted) if Cummings has overruled scientific advice (and then those same scientists have accepted it). Will await being proven wrong but I’ve not seen any evidence of this yet
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Thing is you don’t know what they believe. In press conferences they’re clearly reading from a script, they may well be expressing their full beliefs in the meetings and then Cummings is deciding what they can and can’t say from those beliefs.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
They aren't the ones making the decisions. Witty is Chief Medical Adviser and Vallance is the Chief Scientific Adviser. The clue is in their titles - adviser.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Well you could always check the minutes of the meetings
Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE)
Oh wait a minute, for some reason the recent meetings haven't been uploaded and the government are refusing to release them.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I think you’re being naive Steve. Governments for decades tell us part of a story to fit their own mantra. It’s not the same as lying but it is deliberately keeping us in the dark or at least shade.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
There’s a backlog caused by a blocked Russia report. They’re just waiting on Dyno-rod to come out.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
There isn't really any evidence as yet, but senior tories with an axe to grind pointing fingers at the meeting suggests there's something's amiss.
That may well not be the case.
Not naive at all. Just waiting for evidence Tony. I could also question many posters naivety in just accepting what they are reading without any critical assessment/analysis and acceptance of biases etc.
Dave - Also aware they are only advisors, the government has said they have followed scientific advice. Again maybe they haven’t but I’ve seen no evidence of this yet (I’m sure the scientists, who’s lifetime reputations are on the line, are unlikely to just accept being the fallguys, especially when we are talking about thousands of lives but maybe there is more on this to come)
ps just to be clear, I’m not trying to pick a fight on this. I’m just saying I’ll await proper evidence of interference before passing judgement. I honestly can’t see Cummings being able to ignore/overrule scientific advice but happy to be proved wrong (well, I won’t be happy as it would be a disgrace)
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