Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (232 Viewers)

[Astute]

I looked and Italy has 1,500,000 more over 70s than the U.K.- the most vulnerable group. Yet still we have more deaths than Italy- with no end in sight yet.

And then this, the usual attempt to avoid all scrutiny- on top of Hancock getting aggressive at the woman asking a simple question earlier on you have to assume that our leaders really don’t care about their citizens very much.

So the death rate in Italy is accurate? Not many countries have accurate figures including ourselves.

 

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[fernandopartridge]

This is MD from Private Eye. Never mind whether or not somebody is classed as COVID-19:



Sent from my ELE-L29 using Tapatalk

 

[Astute]

I offered a possible explanation for any unexpected resistance to infection and stated that if someone's respiratory system is already damaged by smoking they will not fare well if infected. This isn't controversial, it's an extremely relevant pre-existing condition. Still you seemed to genuinely think I wanted Big Ben to ring to celebrate something I think is shit.



Science is an enormous field with hundreds or thousands of sub-disciplines. In most of them though we try to carry out experiments to test ideas and gather more data to achieve that. You seem to be focussing on the epidemiologists who have been looking at things from a statistical viewpoint and ignoring the other 'experts' developing vaccines and anti-virals, and attempting to properly understand all manner of things about how the virus works. We don't just use 'guesstimates' to guide what we do.

No. You stated I was wrong as you have a degree and I don't. You put it in them actual words. No need to lie about it. The best of it is you don't have a clue about my qualifications as I don't brag about my own. You then brag about your earnings as though they are something special. They are not. You are just an underpaid teacher who should be on a higher wage.

And I didn't specify any kind of scientist. They work on possibilities and probabilities. If they are so accurate would you like to explain why they can't agree on what is happening with the virus? Of course not. But you do like to make yourself seem better than you really are.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No. You stated I was wrong as you have a degree and I don't. You put it in them actual words. No need to lie about it. The best of it is you don't have a clue about my qualifications as I don't brag about my own. You then brag about your earnings as though they are something special. They are not. You are just an underpaid teacher who should be on a higher wage.

And I didn't specify any kind of scientist. They work on possibilities and probabilities. If they are so accurate would you like to explain why they can't agree on what is happening with the virus? Of course not. But you do like to make yourself seem better than you really are.

1. No I stated I had a very relevant degree and background to the topic of debate. It's not me saying I have a BA in Film Studies so I know all about the world's goings on.

2. Never bragged about my earnings, have complained a few times though. Coventrian and G indulge in that semi often mind you

3. This is the problem with you putting all scientists under the same umbrella. This disease is novel and you can't get all the answers about it immediately-research has to happen and experiments need to be double and triple verified. It takes time to get to the truth for something as complex as this but the work is being put in. It doesn't mean that the scientific community makes it up as they go along as you seem to suggest and having never worked in it (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't see how you can claim that

 

[Astute]

1. No I stated I had a very relevant degree and background to the topic of debate. It's not me saying I have a BA in Film Studies so I know all about the world's goings on.

2. Never bragged about my earnings, have complained a few times though. Coventrian and G indulge in that semi often mind you

3. This is the problem with you putting all scientists under the same umbrella. This disease is novel and you can't get all the answers about it immediately-research has to happen and experiments need to be double and triple verified. It takes time to get to the truth for something as complex as this but the work is being put in. It doesn't mean that the scientific community makes it up as they go along as you seem to suggest and having never worked in it (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't see how you can claim that

1, Lies. You stated I was wrong when I said it looked like smokers had much less chance of getting the virus. You said you knew as you had a degree and I didn't. I found that quite funny as I have continued to get qualifications all my working life. Even funnier when you saw you was wrong.

2, Are you saying you haven't mentioned your earnings several times before? Not bothered what others have said. That isn't a get out clause.

3, Show me where I have put them all under the same umbrella. Show me where I have said they make it up as they go along. I try to use words on an open forum that everyone can understand. You can understand what I am saying but try to use it to your advantage. If you like I can start using words you will need your dictionary for. Or if you like we can take this to PM. I will prove to you in private that I am not below the level you see yourself as. But I am not going to state things that I see as private even though you are happy to divulge the information about yourself on an open forum.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

1, Lies. You stated I was wrong when I said it looked like smokers had much less chance of getting the virus. You said you knew as you had a degree and I didn't. I found that quite funny as I have continued to get qualifications all my working life. Even funnier when you saw you was wrong.

2, Are you saying you haven't mentioned your earnings several times before? Not bothered what others have said. That isn't a get out clause.

3, Show me where I have put them all under the same umbrella. Show me where I have said they make it up as they go along. I try to use words on an open forum that everyone can understand. You can understand what I am saying but try to use it to your advantage. If you like I can start using words you will need your dictionary for. Or if you like we can take this to PM. I will prove to you in private that I am not below the level you see yourself as. But I am not going to state things that I see as private even though you are happy to divulge the information about yourself on an open forum.

No I suggested a possible reason for the statistics. You keep missing out that I said I had relevant qualifications and experiences, not just 'I have a degree therefore know more'. I also don't see where it's mentioned that those with respiratory conditions are less likely to develop serious symptoms if they catch the disease. I haven't bragged about what I earn anywhere and as I keep saying, I've complained about it being relatively low a number of times. Because of what I do if anything I have to take care to avoid revealing anything that could allow me to be identified and don't think I've done that anywhere.

You have made some generalisations about scientists and what they do. I don't think I actually ever said you were uneducated but just that you haven't worked in science or at least it looks that way. You do also seem to misinterpret or miscomprehend things quite often and I'm not the only one to point it out. Not an insult just an observation

 

[Astute]

No I suggested a possible reason for the statistics. You keep missing out that I said I had relevant qualifications and experiences, not just 'I have a degree therefore know more'. I also don't see where it's mentioned that those with respiratory conditions are less likely to develop serious symptoms if they catch the disease. I haven't bragged about what I earn anywhere and as I keep saying, I've complained about it being relatively low a number of times. Because of what I do if anything I have to take care to avoid revealing anything that could allow me to be identified and don't think I've done that anywhere.

You have made some generalisations about scientists and what they do. I don't think I actually ever said you were uneducated but just that you haven't worked in science or at least it looks that way. You do also seem to misinterpret or miscomprehend things quite often and I'm not the only one to point it out. Not an insult just an observation

More like the same old faces that don't like me saying anything against Labour. I'm fine saying anything against the Tories but not a word against Labour.

And yes you did word it that way. Exactly that way. You said you have a degree So you know that smokers would more probably die. Off to work now. Will quote your post if I get a chance ti find it.

 

[Astute]

Smokers 80% less likely to get the virus?

French researchers to test nicotine patches on coronavirus patients

We were then having a debate on if nicotine is the reason. They have been trialling nicotine patches. But then you came in waving your dick around as usual. And strangely enough aimed at myself and not one other person that had been talking about it.

I don’t know if you’re being facetious but infection rate and the severity of the infection are two different things. If I had to make an educated guess I would put it down to one or several of the hundreds of chemicals in tobacco smoke that is hostile to the virus. I could imagine this in particular in houses covered in ash over the years.

If you’re a regular smoker however and get infected then you’re in big big trouble. And I know I get pulled up for ‘I have a degree’ but here it’s directly relevant-I’m not just guessing

Then when you saw the evidence you went quiet as you couldn't defend your comments.

 

[clint van damme]

That sounds... rational.

Well it could potentially be lay offs after that with still no return date confirmed.

 

[Astute]

Well it could potentially be lay offs after that with still no return date confirmed.

Hopefully you will be OK. Italy and Spain were the first to implement lockdown rules. They are starting to relax them now. France were a week behind them. They start to relax theirs next week. We were a week behind France so hopefully we will be a week after them.

The one thing to be unsure about is what they see as a 70 day cycle. However an outbreak is dealt with it seems to take about 70 days to bring under control. It doesn't follow normal logic. Maybe many don't show symptoms to the virus so there are less chances than we think of getting another spread. But we won't know until countries reopen.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

We are an island so we should have been able to restrict the spread more easily than other European countries. A right royal fcuk up from the Tory's.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We were then having a debate on if nicotine is the reason. They have been trialling nicotine patches. But then you came in waving your dick around as usual. And strangely enough aimed at myself and not one other person that had been talking about it.


Then when you saw the evidence you went quiet as you couldn't defend your comments.

Because it wasn’t clear whether or not you knew the difference between infection rate and severity, as I said at the time I genuinely wasn’t sure. But you have quoted me saying my degree was relevant-you have understood that as ‘look I have one’ when it’s clear I mean that it’s in a relevant subject.

It’s again you misunderstanding what people write here

 

[Astute]

Because it wasn’t clear whether or not you knew the difference between infection rate and severity, as I said at the time I genuinely wasn’t sure. But you have quoted me saying my degree was relevant-you have understood that as ‘look I have one’ when it’s clear I mean that it’s in a relevant subject.

It’s again you misunderstanding what people write here

Try reading again what you said yourself. Anyone who smoked and git the virus was in serious trouble. And you know that because of your degree. But the truth looks to be the total opposite. And as usual I get into a stupid argument because someone tries to lie instead of just admitting the truth.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Hopefully you will be OK. Italy and Spain were the first to implement lockdown rules. They are starting to relax them now. France were a week behind them. They start to relax theirs next week. We were a week behind France so hopefully we will be a week after them.

The one thing to be unsure about is what they see as a 70 day cycle. However an outbreak is dealt with it seems to take about 70 days to bring under control. It doesn't follow normal logic. Maybe many don't show symptoms to the virus so there are less chances than we think of getting another spread. But we won't know until countries reopen.

We still have 4000 positive tests a day they are much lower aren’t they? I think probably because their lockdowns were more severe. Who knows? Rumours about this level being acceptable going forward until we get a vaccination. Risky

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Try reading again what you said yourself. Anyone who smoked and git the virus was in serious trouble. And you know that because of your degree. But the truth looks to be the total opposite. And as usual I get into a stupid argument because someone tries to lie instead of just admitting the truth.

I have read it again-I said my degree, as in the discipline it was in, was relevant. Are you saying that someone with respiratory problems isn’t in trouble if they get Covid?

 

[tisza]

We are an island so we should have been able to restrict the spread more easily than other European countries. A right royal fcuk up from the Tory's.

A friend of my mother finally got back from Japan yesterday.
2 layovers where they were checked etc. Walked through Heathrow no checks or even details collected for self-quarantining.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

London Road really busy this morning and barriers being erected around the play equipment on Whitley common. The countries policy summed up in my morning walk

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

So what does everybody think will be announced this weekend then in terms of the ‘exit plan’

I think we might get another 3 weeks of what we are in now and the 1st of June is when things will ease off alot

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So what does everybody think will be announced this weekend then in terms of the ‘exit plan’

I think we might get another 3 weeks of what we are in now and the 1st of June is when things will ease off alot

They seem to be wanting to ease things off before then but I don’t understand how they can justify that with no treatment available and the virus still likely active among the population.

 

[Grendel]

So what does everybody think will be announced this weekend then in terms of the ‘exit plan’

I think we might get another 3 weeks of what we are in now and the 1st of June is when things will ease off alot

We are all going to get a self help box. 200 woodbines per family member and we are also stealing an idea from Belarus and getting a bottle of Russian vodka - immunity assured all back to normal

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

They seem to be wanting to ease things off before then but I don’t understand how they can justify that with no treatment available and the virus still likely active among the population.

As much as I think the lockdown could end up ruining the country in the long run if it’s here too long, having an extra 3 weeks could be the difference between never having to lockdown again or bringing the measures back in as the numbers start rising.... the only thing is it’s so unpredictable because Germany have lifted lots and they are getting better and better in terms of the numbers going down, it’s a tough one

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

As much as I think the lockdown could end up ruining the country in the long run if it’s here too long, having an extra 3 weeks could be the difference between never having to lockdown again or bringing the measures back in as the numbers start rising.... the only thing is it’s so unpredictable because Germany have lifted lots and they are getting better and better in terms of the numbers going down, it’s a tough one

Germany has done a lot more testing I think. Like they are getting football back on the go and only allowing players in with two consecutive negative tests.

 

[Astute]

We still have 4000 positive tests a day they are much lower aren’t they? I think probably because their lockdowns were more severe. Who knows? Rumours about this level being acceptable going forward until we get a vaccination. Risky

But as my guess is we are 2 weeks behind Italy and Spain and a week behind France. What were the numbers in Italy and Spain a couple of weeks ago?

 

[shmmeee]

So what does everybody think will be announced this weekend then in terms of the ‘exit plan’

I think we might get another 3 weeks of what we are in now and the 1st of June is when things will ease off alot

Id expect a focus on the economy over leisure. So people back to work with social distancing where they can, still work from home if possible, large gatherings still banned. Maybe the ten person meet up thing. More non essential shops to reopen. Contact tracing app launched.

 

[Astute]

I have read it again-I said my degree, as in the discipline it was in, was relevant. Are you saying that someone with respiratory problems isn’t in trouble if they get Covid?

You said your degree, which you admitted you keep bringing up, told you smokers with the virus would be in serious trouble. But their fatality numbers seem to be much lower than non smokers.

It is all there and clear to see.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

We are all going to get a self help box. 200 woodbines per family member and we are also stealing an idea from Belarus and getting a bottle of Russian vodka - immunity assured all back to normal

I hope that King Boris lays out the direction and staged approach nature of releasing the lockdown and clear unambiguous reasons from one stage to the next. Rather than changing minds and confusion

 

[shmmeee]

Germany has done a lot more testing I think. Like they are getting football back on the go and only allowing players in with two consecutive negative tests.

Wouldn’t it take around two weeks to know if cases are rising or does their better testing and tracing give them an earlier heads up?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

But as my guess is we are 2 weeks behind Italy and Spain and a week behind France. What were the numbers in Italy and Spain a couple of weeks ago?

It’s a good rational and logical question. No time for that approach astute

 

[shmmeee]

But as my guess is we are 2 weeks behind Italy and Spain and a week behind France. What were the numbers in Italy and Spain a couple of weeks ago?

Around 3,000 in Italy I think.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Wouldn’t it take around two weeks to know if cases are rising or does their better testing and tracing give them an earlier heads up?

I haven’t looked at what they’re doing in depth but that wouldn’t surprise me.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You said your degree, which you admitted you keep bringing up, told you smokers with the virus would be in serious trouble. But their fatality numbers seem to be much lower than non smokers.

It is all there and clear to see.

I am ‘bringing it up’ because you keep asking.

 

[Grendel]

I have read it again-I said my degree, as in the discipline it was in, was relevant. Are you saying that someone with respiratory problems isn’t in trouble if they get Covid?

If you contracted the virus in it’s extreme form then it’s pretty obvious with or without a degree that a virus such as this will cause significant issues for you

 

[clint van damme]

we're a million miles away from emulating what they're doing in South Korea unfortunately and it's highly unlikely we'll ever get there.
I don't know how badly they were affected by SARS and other recent pandemics in South East Asia but if that was their trigger to get prepared for the next pandemic let's hope we put systems in place so we're similarly prepared for the next time.
I'd imagine what's more likely is the government will try and pimp out UK health care in their trade talks with the US.

And before anyone says South Korea has private health care, yes it does, but it's much closer to the UK NHS model that the US health insurance model .

 

[Astute]

It’s a good rational and logical question. No time for that approach astute

It is a difficult one. Their lockdown was much tougher than our shutdown. But if our numbers are true we should be about where they are. But how can we take any numbers to be true?

As we are 2 weeks behind Italy and Spain we have the advantage of seeing what happens with them as they start to relax their lockdown. If they have a spike we should reconsider everything. But if it all goes well it would give us the confidence to follow them.