George Floyd (3 Viewers)

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The best and most specific I have seen are the Campaign Zero reforms

Campaign Zero

This is the kind of movement needed to open a debate on real police reform. Whilst I think there are some potentially problematic with implementing and/or unintended outcomes of points 2, 3 and 4 specifically, this is a programme that can be debated and compromises made to deliver an end goal: meaningful police reform.

 

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[Nick]

The best and most specific I have seen are the Campaign Zero reforms

Campaign Zero

That's perfectly clear what it's about before you start protesting and holding signs up saying "Campaign Zero" isn't it?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This is the kind of movement needed to open a debate on real police reform. Whilst I think there are some potentially problematic with implementing and/or unintended outcomes of points 2, 3 and 4 specifically, this is a programme that can be debated and compromises made to deliver an end goal: meaningful police reform.

I agree, and these are at least researched, policy based solutions to the problem.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That's perfectly clear what it's about before you start protesting and holding signs up saying "Campaign Zero" isn't it?

You could hold up signs with the 10 categories, or have one sign for a category

 

[Nick]

You could hold up signs with the 10 categories, or have one sign for a category

Just depends if it's advertising a money maker for a political organisation to be fair.

 

[clint van damme]

That's perfectly clear what it's about before you start protesting and holding signs up saying "Campaign Zero" isn't it?

but that's about the police killing people.
BLM started because Trayvon Martin was killed the the equivalent by of a neighbourhood watch and the fella responsible got away with it.
The scope of this problem (in the States) is a lot wider than the focus of that campaign, although it does seem like a decent campaign.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Hill is probably one of a minority who hasn't gone into politics in this thread, which has been my point.

People obviously are though, you see people on the news being interviewed and reporting their random facts, they are raising millions worldwide from it.

The whole precedent is set from "the organisation" that just happened to be run by the people who came up with it, just happen to make millions from it and just happen to all share the same political views.

Did nobody stop to think "Actually, Black Lives Matter seems like it's a political movement to me. How about we just say "Treat People as Equals" instead? I mean everybody should be Anti Facist but nobody is going around shouting antifa or holding up signs.

Of course, there should be equality. The whole "Black Lives Matter" slogan isn't new and it's making political groups a lot of money off the back of what happened in America.

Treat People As Equals again is a good message but is even more open to interpretation, esp by the militant left who could easily turn it into a socialist/communist thing as it could be taken as including economically. Not to mention the gender stuff, religion, disability etc. Could even be jumped upon by things like heightism or ginger people.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Just depends if it's advertising a money maker for a political organisation to be fair.

Don't think it is.

 

[Nick]

but that's about the police killing people.
BLM started because Trayvon Martin was killed the the equivalent by of a neighbourhood watch and the fella responsible got away with it.
The scope of this problem (in the States) is a lot wider than the focus of that campaign, although it does seem like a decent campaign.

Yeah it was started by the "founders".... Who all seem to fully back the "UK Chapter" of BLM and share the views with them that people are now backing away from.

 

[Nick]

Treat People As Equals again is a good message but is even more open to interpretation, esp by the militant left who could easily turn it into a socialist/communist thing as it could be taken as including economically. Not to mention the gender stuff, religion, disability etc. Could even be jumped upon by things like heightism or ginger people.

I just meant something generic, nobody has jumped on "Black Lives Matter" and BLM. Everything was already there and setup before George Floyd.

It just happens that people have made a lot of money for political groups from it all and have now got an audience of people to push their views to. It is really not much different from people listening to Tommy Robinson after news about child sex gangs comes out.

Everybody is angry about the sex gangs, there just so happens there is somebody who is vocal about that. Come this way........ Give him your money.

 

[1nilandwe...]

Just a quick aside. This discussion has been really good recently.
And civil and well argued.
And that might sound patronising, but as a casual browser and infrequent poster to this site, it is much nicer than some of the shit-slinging that goes on.

So, you know....
Nice one.

Give yourselves a pat on the back you massive bunch of commies, snowflakes and racists.

 

[Nick]

It is being reported that the police are "taking back" a neighbourhood in Seattle.

It's like something off call of duty

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Just a quick aside. This discussion has been really good recently.
And civil and well argued.
And that might sound patronising, but as a casual browser and infrequent poster to this site, it is much nicer than some of the shit-slinging that goes on.

So, you know....
Nice one.

Give yourselves a pat on the back you massive bunch of commies, snowflakes and racists.

Wise men say only fools rush in

 

[shmmeee]

I just meant something generic, nobody has jumped on "Black Lives Matter" and BLM. Everything was already there and setup before George Floyd.

It just happens that people have made a lot of money for political groups from it all and have now got an audience of people to push their views to. It is really not much different from people listening to Tommy Robinson after news about child sex gangs comes out.

Everybody is angry about the sex gangs, there just so happens there is somebody who is vocal about that. Come this way........ Give him your money.

There’s always grifters mate. Every cause has them, Robinson with sex gangs, Farage with Brexit, the White Fragility author, all raking in cash out of initially worthy causes. Both right and left have them in spades.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

There’s always grifters mate. Every cause has them, Robinson with sex gangs, Farage with Brexit, the White Fragility author, all raking in cash out of initially worthy causes. Both right and left have them in spades.

Probably the biggest alt-right one in the states, infowars, is little more than a vehicle used by the batshit crazy person that runs it to sell all sort of shit and ask for donations.

 

[Nick]

There’s always grifters mate. Every cause has them, Robinson with sex gangs, Farage with Brexit, the White Fragility author, all raking in cash out of initially worthy causes. Both right and left have them in spades.

Did nobody stop to think before pushing something? I mean it's not as if they were setup just to be on the bandwagon.

They were already there.

 

[chiefdave]

Presenters on Sky have stopped wearing the badges.

Sky are still putting up the Black Lives Matter DOG next to the score on the games tonight and the commentators have been mentioning it.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Sky are still putting up the Black Lives Matter DOG next to the score on the games tonight and the commentators have been mentioning it.

Hope the commentators are being careful.

 

[Nick]

BBC have banned Black Lives Matter badges

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/01/exclusive-bbc-bans-black-lives-matters-badges-air

They are claiming "It has been hijacked". Again, nobody checked. It was always about that.

 

[chiefdave]

Hope people extend this new found desire to scrutinise organisations to groups other than BLM, it will blow their minds. Our current government would be a good starting point.

Can't wait to see the reaction when people who are furious at BLM for saying defund the police discover the government they voted for have spent the last 10 years doing exactly that.

 

[Nick]

Hope people extend this new found desire to scrutinise organisations to groups other than BLM, it will blow their minds. Our current government would be a good starting point.

Can't wait to see the reaction when people who are furious at BLM for saying defund the police discover the government they voted for have spent the last 10 years doing exactly that.

Isn't that assuming everybody pointing out issues voted Conservative?

This is the issue, nobody can mention things without being labelled or it being political.

People have gone all in under pressure, the same as clapping the NHS and haven't done any research.

 

[chiefdave]

Isn't that assuming everybody pointing out issues voted Conservative?

This is the issue, nobody can mention things without being labelled or it being political.

Not really, you could apply the same principle to any other party. How many people could tell you the policies in the manifesto of the party they voted for?

Can apply the same to pretty much any organisation.

 

[Nick]

Not really, you could apply the same principle to any other party. How many people could tell you the policies in the manifesto of the party they voted for?

Can apply the same to pretty much any organisation.

I think comparing them to a political party proves the point.

You would think people like the BBC or Sky would do a bit of a Google, BLM isn't a new thing that somebody thought "I can see this is trending, I will try and make a bit of cash".

 

[ajsccfc]

Probably the biggest alt-right one in the states, infowars, is little more than a vehicle used by the batshit crazy person that runs it to sell all sort of shit and ask for donations.

Helps you hate foreigns 20% more clearly!

 

[chiefdave]

I think comparing them to a political party proves the point.

You would think people like the BBC or Sky would do a bit of a Google, BLM isn't a new thing that somebody thought "I can see this is trending, I will try and make a bit of cash".

Doesn't have to be a political party, just used that as people were up in arms about defund the police. I've heard more complaints about BLM saying defund the police than I have about the government spending 10 years actually defunding the police.

Same principle can be applied to pretty much any organisation. Donations have been mentioned as another issue. When someone chucks a fiver in the collection for British Heart Foundation do they realise less than £2.50 goes on charitable activities?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Doesn't have to be a political party, just used that as people were up in arms about defund the police. I've heard more complaints about BLM saying defund the police than I have about the government spending 10 years actually defunding the police.

Same principle can be applied to pretty much any organisation. Donations have been mentioned as another issue. When someone chucks a fiver in the collection for British Heart Foundation do they realise less than £2.50 goes on charitable activities?

Can’t let that pass it’s nearer £3.50 of the £5 and you probably know that. It doesn’t mean £1.50 goes on admin it is used to raise more money.

 

[Nick]

Doesn't have to be a political party, just used that as people were up in arms about defund the police. I've heard more complaints about BLM saying defund the police than I have about the government spending 10 years actually defunding the police.

Same principle can be applied to pretty much any organisation. Donations have been mentioned as another issue. When someone chucks a fiver in the collection for British Heart Foundation do they realise less than £2.50 goes on charitable activities?

Maybe it's because everybody had piled in and you couldn't put the TV on without it being mentioned, if anybody said anything slightly out of line they were labelled as a racist. My issue is being effectively told just to shut up and agree, don't give an opinion etc on this very thread when asking questions about it all.

The media, celebrities and "influencers" all piled in without doing any research at all.

All this has done is stir up racial tension, people have just tried to cream off the top of it whether it's to push politics, get viewers, get likes etc.



The bloke is a prick but this hasn't aged well, has it?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Frankly, this thread is an endlessly repetitive dirge. I've given my view, it's pointless rehashing it over and over again. Clearly, some differ and will never be persuaded.

 

[chiefdave]

Can’t let that pass it’s nearer £3.50 of the £5 and you probably know that. It doesn’t mean £1.50 goes on admin it is used to raise more money.

Didn't really research it much, first result that came up was a report from the True and Fair Foundation which lists a 3 year average of £2.30 spent on charitable activities per £5 spent.

But doesn't really matter if its £2.50 or £3.50, the point was when someone chucks a fiver in are they checking what its spent on or do they just have a general idea that its a good thing to support.

 

[Nick]

Didn't really research it much, first result that came up was a report from the True and Fair Foundation which lists a 3 year average of £2.30 spent on charitable activities per £5 spent.

But doesn't really matter if its £2.50 or £3.50, the point was when someone chucks a fiver in are they checking what its spent on or do they just have a general idea that its a good thing to support.

I mean it literally says it on the gofundme page, how many people read it? I would before handing money over.

The way it went generally was that if you questioned anything, you were made out to be a racist or "scared of equality".

Nobody stopped to check to see what they were actually supporting or promoting. It's stirred things up and made some people a lot of money and brainwashed a fair few people about the politics at the same time.

I'm not saying anybody who demands equality is brainwashed, of course they aren't. That's how everybody should be and what everybody should want, when you see people calling everything they can racist and aimlessly repeating shit they have no idea about they look a bit silly. You have professors and lawyers having no idea about the Black Lives Matter Organisation aims but are on breakfast TV talking about it, how the fuck does that work?

 

[clint van damme]

Frankly, this thread is an endlessly repetitive dirge. I've given my view, it's pointless rehashing it over and over again. Clearly, some differ and will never be persuaded.

it's the way things get deflected from the main issue that's done me.
Same with the corona virus thread. You'd almost think it was done on purpose.

 

[clint van damme]

Maybe it's because everybody had piled in and you couldn't put the TV on without it being mentioned, if anybody said anything slightly out of line they were labelled as a racist. My issue is being effectively told just to shut up and agree, don't give an opinion etc on this very thread when asking questions about it all.

The media, celebrities and "influencers" all piled in without doing any research at all.

All this has done is stir up racial tension, people have just tried to cream off the top of it whether it's to push politics, get viewers, get likes etc.



The bloke is a prick but this hasn't aged well, has it?

pretty ironic given how Farage hijacked UKIP.

 

[Nick]

it's the way things get deflected from the main issue that's done me.
Same with the corona virus thread. You'd almost think it was done on purpose.

It seems things have been deflected right into a go fund me.

 

[clint van damme]

It seems things have been deflected right into a go fund me.

Proving my point.
I'm not saying that BLM protests or coverage by the media shouldn't be discussed. But the fact that another black man was murdered in cold blood by the police has been forgotten.
Same thing was happening on the corona thread, 40 plus thousand dead but lets moan about people clapping or Piers Morgan. Again, fine to discuss those things but 40 plus thousand dead, surely anyone can see what the priority should be?

Same with the defunding the police, suddenly people who haven't made a comment on it while it's been happening for 10 years under the tories are piping up about it!

 

[Nick]

Proving my point.
I'm not saying that BLM protests or coverage by the media shouldn't be discussed. But the fact that another black man was murdered in cold blood by the police has been forgotten.
Same thing was happening on the corona thread, 40 plus thousand dead but lets moan about people clapping or Piers Morgan. Again, fine to discuss those things but 40 plus thousand dead, surely anyone can see what the priority should be?

Same with the defunding the police, suddenly people who haven't made a comment on it while it's been happening for 10 years under the tories are piping up about it!

It's just proved my point that people are desperate to make everything about politics.

"Yeah but Tories", "yeah but Labour"

Nothing about how to fix things going forward, just which politician can we blame.