Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (161 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I was against the Labour policy of renationalising because it actually did it on the basis of an argument that it would mean profits come back to the economy - a public service doesn’t aim to make profit but oddly provide a service

Does the end not justify the means?

 

---

[hill83]

Why can’t it do both?

Because you’ve got to draw a line in the sand somewhere to have an argument on here.

 

[skybluetony176]

Because you’ve got to draw a line in the sand somewhere to have an argument on here.

Gotcha

 

[Grendel]

Does the end not justify the means?

Not really - railways are there to support the public in the same way as the NHS supports health the transport system allows people to travel on a non profit basis. By which I mean allow non profitable services to operate. By definition a public service is illogical as a private enterprise as it puts serving the public first. So if 8 people use a service in Norfolk then so be it. You don’t intend to make profit you invest taxpayer funds to produce a quality service for the tax payer

Despite people’s incredulity it’s hardly a radical thought really and most countries haven’t committed the folly of a private system which actually only exists through huge state support anyway.

The Beeching nonsense ruined railways here and we’ve got worse every decade since

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not really - railways are there to support the public in the same way as the NHS supports health the transport system allows people to travel on a non profit basis. By which I mean allow non profitable services to operate. By definition a public service is illogical as a private enterprise as it puts serving the public first. So if 8 people use a service in Norfolk then so be it. You don’t intend to make profit you invest taxpayer funds to produce a quality service for the tax payer

Despite people’s incredulity it’s hardly a radical thought really and most countries haven’t committed the folly of a private system which actually only exists through huge state support anyway.

The Beeching nonsense ruined railways here and we’ve got worse every decade since

I didn’t think subsidising unprofitable public services was your thing. What confuses me is why you didn’t make these arguments at the time but appeared to write them off entirely? As it happens I agree with your point here

 

[chiefdave]

Anyone got any idea what is going on with vaccinations?

Was only a couple of months ago the government was talking about 10 millions doses of the Pfizer vaccine being received before Christmas. Pfizer then said supply chain issues meant that they would only be producing half the expected amount in 2020 but that still means 5 million doses.

There were media reports as far back as June that the Cambridge Astra vaccine had entered mass production. I remember a discussion on here about how much money they government might have wasted if the vaccine wasn't approved. The expectation was a third of the 100 million doses ordered by the government being ready last year.

Yet now we have the government saying there is a shortage while Pfizer and Cambridge both say there isn't and they've delivered on schedule. It was then blamed on fill and finish yet the CP Pharmaceuticals facility in Wales say they have been producing 150,000 phials a day for months and there is no issue there.

Spoke to my Dad today. Given his age and health he's up there on the priority list. His doctor had told him early January at the latest but most likely before Christmas. When he checked again as he hadn't heard anything he was told he's now looking at May. I know a couple of people who have been trained up to administer the vaccine as part of the mass rollout program and checking with them they haven't been given any indication that they will be needed anytime soon.

 

[Grendel]

I didn’t think subsidising unprofitable public services was your thing. What confuses me is why you didn’t make these arguments at the time but appeared to write them off entirely? As it happens I agree with your point here

Services are always unprofitable - repairing public roads are not making money. I am against HS2 as it’s a pointless destruction of the environment and from what I see very little economic gain

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Anyone got any idea what is going on with vaccinations?

Was only a couple of months ago the government was talking about 10 millions doses of the Pfizer vaccine being received before Christmas. Pfizer then said supply chain issues meant that they would only be producing half the expected amount in 2020 but that still means 5 million doses.

There were media reports as far back as June that the Cambridge Astra vaccine had entered mass production. I remember a discussion on here about how much money they government might have wasted if the vaccine wasn't approved. The expectation was a third of the 100 million doses ordered by the government being ready last year.

Yet now we have the government saying there is a shortage while Pfizer and Cambridge both say there isn't and they've delivered on schedule. It was then blamed on fill and finish yet the CP Pharmaceuticals facility in Wales say they have been producing 150,000 phials a day for months and there is no issue there.

Spoke to my Dad today. Given his age and health he's up there on the priority list. His doctor had told him early January at the latest but most likely before Christmas. When he checked again as he hadn't heard anything he was told he's now looking at May. I know a couple of people who have been trained up to administer the vaccine as part of the mass rollout program and checking with them they haven't been given any indication that they will be needed anytime soon.

No idea. Someone must be telling a porky somewhere though and it should be easy to verify if AZ have made the vaccines they say they have, and if the filling companies have produced the vials they say they have.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Services are always unprofitable - repairing public roads are not making money. I am against HS2 as it’s a pointless destruction of the environment and from what I see very little economic gain

Again I agree with you on that and told an Ipsos Mori caller the same a while ago. What puzzles me is your arguing against these points in the past.

 

[Grendel]

Again I agree with you on that and told an Ipsos Mori caller the same a while ago. What puzzles me is your arguing against these points in the past.

I didn’t

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I didn’t

Did you not before argue against renationalising rail?

 

[Grendel]

Did you not before argue against renationalising rail?

Yes because the plan would take 10 years and the plan was not to make any improvements by re opening loss making lines

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes because the plan would take 10 years and the plan was not to make any improvements by re opening loss making lines

I’m also a bit confused why you’d more generally vote for the party with a track record of cutting and underfunding public services. Even if Labour isn’t your cup of tea a third party must surely be better aligned if that’s a priority of yours?

 

[Grendel]

I’m also a bit confused why you’d more generally vote for the party with a track record of cutting and underfunding public services. Even if Labour isn’t your cup of tea a third party must surely be better aligned if that’s a priority of yours?

Labour implemented much of the beeching cuts I think - it’s just a view on transport I never saw the point in privatisation

 

[Grendel]

I don’t suppose privatising utilities was a major success either but that horse really has bolted

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Labour implemented much of the beeching cuts I think - it’s just a view on transport I never saw the point in privatisation

Both parties carried it out and it was a Tory proposal.

 

[Grendel]

Both parties carried it out and it was a Tory proposal.

So both implemented it

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So both implemented it

I don’t suppose privatising utilities was a major success either but that horse really has bolted

Yes hence why I mentioned third parties though in recent times it’s clear which one supports cutting and underfunding services

 

[fernandopartridge]

Anyone got any idea what is going on with vaccinations?

Was only a couple of months ago the government was talking about 10 millions doses of the Pfizer vaccine being received before Christmas. Pfizer then said supply chain issues meant that they would only be producing half the expected amount in 2020 but that still means 5 million doses.

There were media reports as far back as June that the Cambridge Astra vaccine had entered mass production. I remember a discussion on here about how much money they government might have wasted if the vaccine wasn't approved. The expectation was a third of the 100 million doses ordered by the government being ready last year.

Yet now we have the government saying there is a shortage while Pfizer and Cambridge both say there isn't and they've delivered on schedule. It was then blamed on fill and finish yet the CP Pharmaceuticals facility in Wales say they have been producing 150,000 phials a day for months and there is no issue there.

Spoke to my Dad today. Given his age and health he's up there on the priority list. His doctor had told him early January at the latest but most likely before Christmas. When he checked again as he hadn't heard anything he was told he's now looking at May. I know a couple of people who have been trained up to administer the vaccine as part of the mass rollout program and checking with them they haven't been given any indication that they will be needed anytime soon.

Will try to find out from CCG people I know tomorrow what's happening. Sounds like the usual complete fuck up.

I get the feeling the issue is about capacity to administer; recruitment of ex clinicians is slow, so they've only really got existing staff who have limited capacity.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Interesting thread about the one shot vaccine risk

 

[chiefdave]

The health secretary says schools are safe but adds, talking about closures in London and the South East "when schools are open we know that spreads the disease more"

Johnson made a similar comment the other day about schools being safe and the issue being people in schools. Beginning to wonder if they don't realise that when people talk about schools they mean the staff and students not the bricks and mortar.

 

[clint van damme]

Good luck to the Oxford vaccine today - do your stuff!
You're our only hope!!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Good luck to the Oxford vaccine today - do your stuff!
You're our only hope!!

Best hope*

 

[Great_Expectations]

We’ve had an email from our daughters nursery this morning, warning us they are expecting to be shut by the Government this week, and to respond if you’re classed as a key worker.

Not sure if it’s just contingency planning or they have knowledge of what’s coming.

 

[Skybluefaz]

 

[Great_Expectations]

We’ve had an email from our daughters nursery this morning, warning us they are expecting to be shut by the Government this week, and to respond if you’re classed as a key worker.

Not sure if it’s just contingency planning or they have knowledge of what’s coming.

And a few of my friends who are teachers are closing their schools from tomorrow too. One is a Primary school and follows a Union meeting this morning where not enough Teachers/TA’s were comfortable with working on site.

 

[clint van damme]

According to Matt Hancock in a Sky interview the government has often being accused of acting too quickly.

Yes Matt, if I had pound for everyone who said you'd acted too quickly I'd have fuck all.

 

[wingy]

Well no data yet but this South African mutation may put the cat among the pigeons.

 

[xcraigx]

I would think we get announcement from Boris in the next 48 hours closing schools and probably putting the whol3 country into tier 4. It seems most primaries by me have decided not to open this week.

 

[Skybluefaz]

According to Matt Hancock in a Sky interview the government has often being accused of acting too quickly.

Yes Matt, if I had pound for everyone who said you'd acted too quickly I'd have fuck all.

Covid-19 and the government decision making very much remind me of this old joke.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Well no data yet but this South African mutation may put the cat among the pigeons.

tbf, sounds more like issues with the flu jab, have to constantly modify vaccines to cope with new mutations, and that's an inevitability. Once the vaccine's there, in principle it shouldn't be hard to adapt it.

 

[wingy]

tbf, sounds more like issues with the flu jab, have to constantly modify vaccines to cope with new mutations, and that's an inevitability. Once the vaccine's there, in principle it shouldn't be hard to adapt it.

Haven't read myself but there seems to be a suggestion from somewhere in media that it may be more severe in younger folk.

 

[Skybluefaz]

Cov local authority anticipating national lockdown including school closures. Tory incompetence is off the scale.

 

[Nick]

"tough tough lockdown is coming"

Why not just fucking do it now then dickhead so people know where they are? How can people plan for Tier 4 to then have to change again next week.

It's really pissing me off now.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

"tough tough lockdown is coming"

Why not just fucking do it now then dickhead so people know where they are? How can people plan for Tier 4 to then have to change again next week.

It's really pissing me off now.

You know why he hasn't done it yet.