I would still feel pretty confident in it being the best guess you're going to get, though. If you don't trust doctors, then I'm not surprised you feel upset at the thought of someone going into their care.
Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (140 Viewers)
- Thread starter BackRoomRummermill
- Start date
I would still feel pretty confident in it being the best guess you're going to get, though. If you don't trust doctors, then I'm not surprised you feel upset at the thought of someone going into their care.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
I dont distrust doctors, I can question their logic behind the answer.. As the attachment above shows.. A doctors educated guess... Isn't an answer
I dont feel upset going into their care, I haven't said that once you made that up
We're circling here because you're wrong
It's worrying you will just take somebody's word as gospel because they went to uni and got a degree in that field (basically what you alluded to) , therfore I assume you trust the government completely
I know I don't
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
I dont distrust doctors, I can question their logic behind the answer.. As the attachment above shows.. A doctors educated guess... Isn't an answer
I dont feel upset going into their care, I haven't said that once you made that up
We're circling here because you're wrong
It's worrying you will just take somebody's word as gospel because they went to uni and got a degree in that field (basically what you alluded to) , therfore I assume you trust the government completely
Doctors can issue a certificate on an assumption of Covid without any clinical tests so of course there will be some errors around individual deaths being recorded accurately
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
And that's really all I've said tbh... It's sad for some families who will never know either way
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
You’re talking one or two random cases out of hundreds of thousands though. No data collection exercise is 100% accurate. The plural of anecdote isn’t fact, there’s no evidence of wide scale COVID death inflation and this is just people who previously denied COVID at all backpedaling now they can’t hold their previous position and using bereaved families to do that.
Cause of death isn’t simple. Have a read of this: https://assets.publishing.service.g...l-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf
“the disease which initiated the train of morbid events” I.e. what triggered whatever killed them. You get hit by a car and car accident is your cause of death even though you may have died from blood loss, or organ failure, or something else. What cause that was the accident.
COVID is known to make existing conditions worse. It’s a fair judgement to say that someone who catches COVID and that worsens existing conditions has died of COVID.
Also remember that coroners will have been massively overwhelmed the last year and will be completing far more paperwork than ever and will be making snap judgements. That’s OK, again no data is 100%. But we’re talking maybe a few hundred cases at most out of 120k, taking even 1200 examples it’s only a 1% error rate.
Ita really a nothing story and if anything the skeptics using the grief and confusion of families to boost their nonsense are the bad guys here IMO.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Il roll with it, I'm playing apex legends on my day off
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It’sabatch87
Well-Known Member
Even lefties are talking about just how well this Boris-led Tory government is doing
Even lefties are talking about just how well our Tory government is doing
“FOR those who like to talk Britain down, the vaccination figures are shocking. “Twenty million first doses administered. A forward- thinking procurement plan. 🦠 Read our coronavirus live blog for …
www.thesun.co.uk
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
Needle in a haystack panic.....or alarmist mountain out of a mole hill?
Bearing in mind the UK pretty much leads the world with the genomic sequencing required to I.D variants, and yet we still only complete this testing on between 5% - 20% of all positives cases, Id suggest its probably the latter.......
...good scary headline though innit...
Even lefties are talking about just how well this Boris-led Tory government is doing
Even lefties are talking about just how well our Tory government is doing
“FOR those who like to talk Britain down, the vaccination figures are shocking. “Twenty million first doses administered. A forward- thinking procurement plan. 🦠 Read our coronavirus live blog for …
Yes mate, everyone's absolutely delighted with 130,000+ deaths. Go on Boris lad!
Johnnythespider
Well-Known Member
But that wouldn't be included in the 28 days of a positive test figures would it ?
Yes exactly. Usually they have no response, but if they do it's often things like deaths because of cancelled cancer treatments, suicides etc.
100% right, the excess deaths will provide a true picture. I know what you’re saying PVA but the other deaths are relevant as there will unfortunately be a large number of non Covid deaths which will have been indirectly caused by the pandemic, lockdown, government/NHS actions and decisions (cancelling appointments, screenings) etc which will be in that excess deaths figure.
All this stuff can only really be reviewed properly in the whole once the pandemic is (hopefully) out the way, even then the full ramifications of long Covid, missed screenings, delayed operations etc will take months/years to work through and become fully apparent. Frightening and very sad but at least with the vaccine programme, assuming it continues to be successful in protecting against the variants, gives us some proper light at the end of tunnel
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Of course. No one is denying that (or they shouldn't be).
But that doesn't mean that everything up until the vaccination should be ignored or excused.
Also I think it shows how well things in this country can go when the relevant skilled and qualified people are in charge (i.e. the NHS) compared to handing jobs and contracts to mates and donors (i.e. PPE, Track and Trace).
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Vaccinations should be around travel insurance/health coverage. Certain areas have always had pre-required jabs to travel (i.e. malaria).
So instead maybe it'd be based around 'get the jab or you'll not be covered for insurance'. No insurance and many operators won't book the journey. It's effectively the same thing as a 'vaccine passport'.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
More travel to different areas does increase the likelihood of a mutation, and also mutations that are more resistant to the vaccines will inevitably become the dominant variants.
D
Deleted member 4439
Guest
Apologies if this has already been flagged up, but for those over 60 and waiting for the invite for a vaccination, these letters are due to start landing from today. For those 50-60, they are due in a week or so, so the booking system is going to get extra busy.
If you are over 60, you do not need to wait for the letter, you can book on the system now.
www.nhs.uk
If you are over 60, you do not need to wait for the letter, you can book on the system now.
Book, change, or cancel a COVID-19 vaccination appointment online
Book, change or cancel a COVID-19 vaccination appointment online.
www.nhs.uk
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Even lefties are talking about just how well this Boris-led Tory government is doing
Even lefties are talking about just how well our Tory government is doing
“FOR those who like to talk Britain down, the vaccination figures are shocking. “Twenty million first doses administered. A forward- thinking procurement plan. 🦠 Read our coronavirus live blog for …
By choosing one of a hundred different metrics they could.
All they're doing is focusing on ONE thing - the vaccine rollout which is going very well. What about the procurement, the failure to put in necessary travel restrictions etc early enough, mixed/unclear messages and changing/ignoring the metrics for lockdown repeatedly, billions in contracts to mates and donors which even the courts have agreed isn't right, excusing their own ministers and advisors of breaking restrictions resulting in a breakdown of compliance amongst the general public etc. Do the 'lefties' think that Boris-led govt is doing well?
Plenty of 'righties' think most of what they've done is an absolute amateur shitshow so why aren't they also writing 'even righties are talking about just how badly this Boris-led Tory government is doing'?
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
On the whole I trust doctors but it's also dangerous to think of them as infallible. You would at least in your own head question how can you put it down as Covid when they've not even been tested for it. Extreme example is Shipman - got away with hundreds of just saying 'old age'. Old age is not a cause of death - health complications related to old age are. It should be the medial professionals job to discover which complications were the cause of death (i.e. heart, renal failure etc)
I had doctors adamant that I must have diabetes or a thyroid problem - all the symptoms pointed to it. Tests all came back negative and have been repeated since. Still undiagnosed to this day and it's been years. I've just had to learn to live with it and do whatever I can to minimise the effects.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Still gets in my throat how its NHS Track and Trace when it clearly isn't but the vaccination process is never referred to as NHS vaccination programme. For me it's a clear indication of where this govt intends to go with the health service - trying to distance private enterprise from the fuck ups but make sure the state provider is intrinsically linked but not giving it the due credit it deserves for arguably the one thing that has gone well.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
What were the figures for cases like just after the 12th and 13th? They are putting out alerts for anyone who took a test and has not rceived their results then to call 119.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
That’s because of that untraced person with the new variant.
Not that I've ever claimed them to be either, but if it's a choice between "All doctors are infallible" and "All doctors are Harold Shipman", then I know which side I would lean towards.
Which takes me back to my original question - why does it matter what it says on the death certificate if the families apparently know better anyway?
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
Encouraging progress
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Even lefties are talking about just how well this Boris-led Tory government is doing
Even lefties are talking about just how well our Tory government is doing
“FOR those who like to talk Britain down, the vaccination figures are shocking. “Twenty million first doses administered. A forward- thinking procurement plan. 🦠 Read our coronavirus live blog for …
Doing well on vaccines, definitely.
Everything else an absolute shit show.
Remember it 2ss this time last year Johnson missed 5 COBRA meetings on the trot, one because he went away for 5he weekend - any 'righties' care to comment on that?
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Think you’ve misunderstood.... ‘lefties’ are congratulating the NHS on the outstanding roll out of the vaccine programme. They are also wondering how much better test, track and trace would have been if they’d been able to do that instead of spaffing billions up the wall at Serco.
Even lefties are talking about just how well this Boris-led Tory government is doing
Even lefties are talking about just how well our Tory government is doing
“FOR those who like to talk Britain down, the vaccination figures are shocking. “Twenty million first doses administered. A forward- thinking procurement plan. 🦠 Read our coronavirus live blog for …
They are also wondering why ‘righties’ don’t get the irony that the NHS is the biggest socialist success this country has ever seen.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
The government have had very little to do with the Vaccine Roll Out - It's being run and organised mostly by groups of local GP surgeries.
It's a twat is the kind of moron that thinks the sun is a valid source and he also claimed Arlene Foster was delighted the Brexit deal. He's a lonely internet WUM.
Also 122k dead is a real fucking shit show.
I think that’s a little overly conspiratorial (is that a word ?!) SBD. The vaccine programme is clearly linked to the NHS and we all know GP practices are currently delivering a lion share of the doses as with flu jab every year. like everything though, there are various others involved in its successful rollout....logistically assistance was provided by the army and there’s been thousands/tens of thousands of public volunteers. One of the main reasons we have been able roll out at pace was due to procurement and Kate Bingham being in charge of it, which many in the media moaned was cronyism at the time (even though she did it for free). Compare that to PPE procurement which was shambolic albeit during unprecedented times. Finally the bold move by PHE/JVCI/government to roll out single doses to give at least provide partial protection appears (currently - don’t worry NW, I’m not getting ahead of myself
) to have been a sensible decision....hopefully it remains that wayTest and trace bizarrely keeps getting brought up as this big failure when in actual it’s not at all. Initial tracing wasn’t good (and money wasted) but has since improved significantly. With hindsight it would’ve been better to have a central hub and then regional teams but either way significant resource/private sector assistance would’ve been required.
It’s the testing side of things which is where the billions go and its pretty impressive - daily capacity of 800k+ (87m in total) 90%+ turnaround in 24 hours, one of the best (if not the best) genomic sequencing in the world, which is now allowing us to spot variants and deploy surge asymptomatic testing in areas.
Both are decent examples of private and public sector working well in tandem
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
40% in a day or two
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Why lead a press conference with what is basically patchy, incomplete and non reviewed data?
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Track and trace cost something like the entire GDP of Wales which went to the Government's mates and didn't stop another lockdown. It was a massive fuck up.I think that’s a little overly conspiratorial (is that a word ?!) SBD. The vaccine programme is clearly linked to the NHS and we all know GP practices are currently delivering a lion share of the doses as with flu jab every year. like everything though, there are various others involved in its successful rollout....logistically assistance was provided by the army and there’s been thousands/tens of thousands of public volunteers. One of the main reasons we have been able roll out at pace was due to procurement and Kate Bingham being in charge of it, which many in the media moaned was cronyism at the time (even though she did it for free). Compare that to PPE procurement which was shambolic albeit during unprecedented times. Finally the bold move by PHE/JVCI/government to roll out single doses to give at least provide partial protection appears (currently - don’t worry NW, I’m not getting ahead of myself
Test and trace bizarrely keeps getting brought up as this big failure when in actual it’s not at all. Initial tracing wasn’t good (and money wasted) but has since improved significantly. With hindsight it would’ve been better to have a central hub and then regional teams but either way significant resource/private sector assistance would’ve been required.
It’s the testing side of things which is where the billions go and its pretty impressive - daily capacity of 800k+ (87m in total) 90%+ turnaround in 24 hours, one of the best (if not the best) genomic sequencing in the world, which is now allowing us to spot variants and deploy surge asymptomatic testing in areas.
Both are decent examples of private and public sector working well in tandem