Do you want to discuss boring politics? (163 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
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fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
TBH with you, the wallpaper story has neatly sidelined the more blatant and obvious corruption of Cameron and Greensill
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
I've always been a fan of self-determination in general. Thatcher is strangely the one that got the ball rolling on this with the ideas behind how and why the Scottish Parliament was formed.
D
Deleted member 4439
Guest
And Cummings ppe corruption - heard nothing about that for a month now.
Four more companies that benefitted from the 'Cronyism VIP' Lane have been revealed today:
The companies newly revealed to have won contracts via the VIP process are P14 Medical, run by the Conservative councillor and donor Steve Dechan, introduced by a senior official at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and awarded £276m in PPE contracts; Meller Designs, run by David Meller, a prominent Tory donor, which had previously supplied PPE to the government and was awarded contracts worth more than £160m; the design company Luxe Lifestyle, awarded a £26m contract after being referred by an unnamed MP, and Clandeboye Agencies, a confectionery company, awarded £108m in PPE contracts after its application was supported by the director of NHS Wales, according to the court disclosures.
The companies newly revealed to have won contracts via the VIP process are P14 Medical, run by the Conservative councillor and donor Steve Dechan, introduced by a senior official at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and awarded £276m in PPE contracts; Meller Designs, run by David Meller, a prominent Tory donor, which had previously supplied PPE to the government and was awarded contracts worth more than £160m; the design company Luxe Lifestyle, awarded a £26m contract after being referred by an unnamed MP, and Clandeboye Agencies, a confectionery company, awarded £108m in PPE contracts after its application was supported by the director of NHS Wales, according to the court disclosures.
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
Labour 11 points behind nationally and in the Wales/Midlands area Labour is a whopping 21 points behind.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
It's more the point that any party that decides to work with the Tories tends to end up getting caned and ends up the scapegoat.
But on issues like that yes they do make Tories look 'woke'. Irony is that those kind of issues they're far more closely aligned with deep Catholicism and even the heavily Catholic Republic are more progressive than them on these issues.
Never understood why they constantly bleat on about being aligned to the Union yet have totally different laws regarding abortion and same-sex marriage. It's pretty much having your cake and eating it.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Staggering really when you consider the last year , and when you consider recent goings on .
Labour really are in the mud
I don't know how they are ever going to get back in power it's a bit worrying really living in a 1 party state
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
'Playing politics'
Indeed.
I see the BBC had the 'Starmer taking cheap pot shots' story because of a picture with some wallpaper was 3rd on the main headlines earlier. Higher up the bill than the VIP PPE contracts. A picture is more newsworthy than billions in public funds given to donors/family/friends. The PM/ Acuri affair who got £100k+ from it wasn't newsworthy at all apparently. Those damn Labour lefties at the BBC.
I also see that the urgent issue that has been addressed is looking for who the leak was. Not the potential law breaking behind the revelation but who told us about it. Says everything you need to know about what's important to these people.
Surely if you've done nothing wrong you just reveal how it was paid for. The fact that they haven't just confirms it must be at least a bit dodgy.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
But Tories do good PR. Vaccine programme doing well means 18 months of mismanagement, corruption and lying get forgotten.
I see already they're preparing the general public for the next 'Tories are great' story by having "biggest ever predicted growth" stories flying about, when with even a small amount of brainpower tells you that after the massive contraction we had due to the monumental fuck up we made with covid you'd have to be a special kind of inept for it not to be the highest growth year-on-year.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Not really.
The only people pushing this are the far left and the right, which should tell you all you need to know.
Been saying for over a year not to expect that 40+% to drop for the Tories. Opening up. Vaccines. Brexit delivered just a few months ago. PM with the biggest cult following of any politician in recent memory given daily press briefings while the LOTO isn’t allowed out of his room and any criticism is “doing them down during a pandemic”.
There’s signs the Tory vote is starting to soften, it’ll go Green and LD first, people don’t generally switch between the big two directly. Starmer is only just at a point where he can actually criticise Johnson without being told he’s pro-virus or something. Long way to go yet.
You don’t recover from the biggest post war defeat in a day. Currently Labour stand to take 20 seats off the Tories if polls stay the same:
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
That’s classic Tory messaging. Pick up in a recession (or cause one) then take credit when the bounce back happens. Worked in 2010, will work in 2021.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Which I guess brings us back to the unresolved discussion from the other day about why people vote for a party that is not in their best interests.
Think all we got was that workers were 'aspirational' but even that couldn't be qualified and it was only a few posts before huge chunks of the electorate were being excluded from that.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
Do you reckon Ann Lucas is getting ready to draft a letter calling for Starmer to go Tuesday morning?
D
Deleted member 4439
Guest
well that's becuz the working class is just abit thick, innit.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Unfair - the working class on SBT are much much smarter than the average working class thicko who don’t know wotz gud for um
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I find it genuinely fascinating. Just after the last election was reading an article on research from the University of Manchester where they had for several years been tracking peoples voting intention but also their responses to various policy areas.Oh god I'd rather stay away from that discussion today
The upshot was the way people vote doesn't line up with what they want the government to do. Perhaps unexpectedly the largest beneficiaries if people did vote for the party most aligned with them was the Greens. Of course you could argue that at least in part the Greens, and other similar sized parties, lose votes due to our FPTP system and people believing it to be a wasted vote.
There has to be a reason and I don't believe its 'voters are stupid'. So what is it?
Absolutely. I posted in here a few weeks ago about the Hartlepool by-election.
They polled Hartlepool residents on what policies they want and then on which party they would vote for.
The majority wanted left leaning policies and/or the exact opposite of what the Tories are doing... and then said they'd vote Tory.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
People wouldn’t vote for greens - you are confusing liking policies but believing the government can do an effective job
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Other than PVA
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
This one will do.
Oh, any news on when the Forde Inquiry is going to report?
---
'As Labour councillors we support the recent call from colleagues for new leadership at the top of our party.
Keir Starmer is an honourable man with a record of public service stretching back more than five years
We are drawn from a number of traditions within our movement, including those who voted for Keir last year.
It has now become clear, however, that he is unable to command the confidence of the whole party nor of many traditional Labour supporters we speak with on the doorstep.
Our country is facing a crisis – and the neighbourhoods we represent are on the front line. We urge Keir Starmer to make way for the new leadership that our communities so desperately need.
Yours sincerely,
---
I am not working class.
D
Deleted member 4439
Guest
Sorry, I'll rephrase then, presumably to something more in keeping with your daily posts on the subject.
The working class are intelligent enough to know that Labour is unelectable.
The working class are intelligent enough to know that Labour is unelectable.
That's fine.
But, we're bringing up old ground here, that's not an answer to the question that has been asked numerous times (and hasn't been answered).
People aren't asking what's wrong with Labour, they are asking what's so appealing about the Tories to the working class and so far the best answer we've had is something about aspirations, which makes no sense.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Exactly - perception not reality. There is no empirical evidence that Tories are any better at doing an effective job - it's just this long standing ingrained thought that they do. It's seemingly based on Labour of 50 years ago and it's a lot different to then.
As for voting greens I think it's a few things. First is the system of FPTP - even if you want to vote for them if you do it'll likely lead to a right-wing govt so you vote tactically to try and prevent it. Secondly, and what has put me off certainly in GE is that for all the green industry etc they push they've got some absolute militant nutcases who align the party to totally nonsensical 'woke' policies or want to force everyone to be vegan or something that many can't get behind.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Wasn't for a second suggesting everyone is about to vote Green, or even that they should. But its very odd that people who seem to favour polices diametrically opposed to Conservative policies vote for them.
Its nothing to do with how good or bad any other party is. The question that keeps being asked is why are people voting Conservative and nobody seems able to come up with an answer.