Do you want to discuss boring politics? (116 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

I was on about Starmer! I just don't see him as an effective LOTO.

Think it applies to both of them.

 

---

[Sky Blue Pete]

I suspect its a very varied picture. They are invisible at my place, totally invisible, and have been for the last 5 years, when they were abject when our conditions and grades were under attack.

I actually wrote twice to Mark Serwotka to challenge his perceived all round success in getting the CS pension reform overturned, and the effect on folks like me. Very polite points and enquiry. Nada response.

Where are you?

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Where are you?

What, spirituality?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What, spirituality?

Work? I’m hmrc

 

[Ian1779]

Well said Pete,I think some don’t realise about centre ground which is where the tories are hoovering up votes up north.
Labour cannot just stick their heads in the sand and hope for the best!!

I don’t think it’s the centre ground hoovering up votes for the Tories in the North. Recently it’s been Brexit and then the success of the vaccination process, along with a staggering media campaign that has somehow framed the local Labour councils/MP’s as the reason why their constituencies have gone to shit, and in no way linked to the incumbent government and their funding over the last 11 years.
It’s some shit hot propaganda - if it wasn’t so grim in reality.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I don’t think it’s the centre ground hoovering up votes for the Tories in the North. Recently it’s been Brexit and then the success of the vaccination process, along with a staggering media campaign that has somehow framed the local Labour councils/MP’s as the reason why their constituencies have gone to shit, and in no way linked to the incumbent government and their funding over the last 11 years.
It’s some shit hot propaganda - if it wasn’t so grim in reality.

We have to look at ourselves and stop blaming everyone else

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Work? I’m hmrc

dfe

 

[Ian1779]

We have to look at ourselves and stop blaming everyone else

I didn’t say Labour don’t have culpability there - from Blair all the way through to Corbyn and now Starmer. But you cannot deny that some of the reasoning you will have heard from a change voters defies logic and rational sense.

As I said before - Labour need to concentrate their efforts in local affairs, and start showcasing what good they can do in the places they still have control like Preston, Liverpool and Hull for examples, as well as the metro mayoral seats they hold.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I didn’t say Labour don’t have culpability there - from Blair all the way through to Corbyn and now Starmer. But you cannot deny that some of the reasoning you will have heard from a change voters defies logic and rational sense.

As I said before - Labour need to concentrate their efforts in local affairs, and start showcasing what good they can do in the places they still have control like Preston, Liverpool and Hull for examples, as well as the metro mayoral seats they hold.

You didnt no I agree

 

[David O'Day]

What Labour also needs to do show that life under them would be better than it is now. This is why they have given the shadow chancellor job to an actual economist and she is working with the US democratic party as they have managed to combine a radical economic solution that is both populist and seen as sensible. Under Miliband they were too timid and under Corbyn in 2019 they went for too much all at once which allowed it painted as madness. There will be good ground to be made here as before the next GE the promises they Torie have made will come crashing down.

As has been said before but some people don't want to admit or don't grasp is the small town Labour voters who went tory are a pretty small 'c' conservative block. Labour need to work out how to combine this with their newer urban liberal base or they have to decide is it worth keeping Putney and Canterbury at the expense of the far more northern seats.

There is a long way to go before the next GE so no one should be getting excited by any polls no matter if they are good or bad.

 

[PVA]

LAB +43

 

[skybluetony176]

Who does Grant Shapps hair? The Crowman? Scruffy c**t on question time.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Let’s stay on topic here. My argument is very much the Government has increased its deficit with its response to COVID and that needs to managed. Therefore, increasing public sector pay by more than the 1% it already has isn’t a sound idea at this moment in time.

It’s furlough scheme has kept people in jobs at a huge cost. That cost needs to be paid for and the Government has increased corporate tax, frozen the tax thresholds and could even increase the tax rate too. Again, increasing the day-to-day costs of the government doesn’t seem sensible at this moment in time.

The furlough scheme has cost nothing, govt debt actually reduced to pay for it. Do some reading.

 

[wingy]

Who does Grant Shapps hair? The Crowman? Scruffy c**t on question time.

Carrie like Boris's?

Think he was on the early shift, rolling news yesterday or the day before, thought it was more together than usual, must have had a hard day?

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Who does Grant Shapps hair? The Crowman? Scruffy c**t on question time.

Micheal Green is probably planning to launch "5 steps to having successful hair"

 

[PVA]

Johnson meeting Orban today. Bet they'll have a great old time. What Grendel would give to be in that room!

 

[shmmeee]

Johnson meeting Orban today. Bet they'll have a great old time. What Grendel would give to be in that room!

I’m sure with antisemitism being of such a concern to Tories he’ll be spending most of the meeting bringing him to task on being arguably one of the most prominent antisemites in the world.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

He’s more of a lad than that wet blanket Starmer I mean who would you rather go out for a pint with? At least you’d have a laugh with Boris!!

But we're not going out for a pint with him. We're asking him to run the country.

 

[Sick Boy]

He’s more of a lad than that wet blanket Starmer I mean who would you rather go out for a pint with? At least you’d have a laugh with Boris!!

I’m not sure anyone called Alexander De Pfeffel could ever be described as ‘a lad’.

 

[shmmeee]

He’s more of a lad than that wet blanket Starmer I mean who would you rather go out for a pint with? At least you’d have a laugh with Boris!!

Personally can’t stand posh twats but each to their own.

You’re looking for someone to run a country though, not a clown.

 

[skybluetony176]

Nothing to see here

Priti Patel's SECOND bid to help friend win PPE deal worth millions

Leaked documents now show the Home Secretary pressed ministers and officials intervened to give a previously unreported £28.8million contract to a firm represented by Samir Jassal.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[shmmeee]

 

[PVA]

In another shocking turn of events it turns out the man that Johnson chose to look into the number 10 decorating fiasco finds... Johnson did no wrong.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

I'm very tempted to have her pic as my new avatar.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

In another shocking turn of events it turns out the man that Johnson chose to look into the number 10 decorating fiasco finds... Johnson did no wrong.

So it says that Johnson knew someone else had paid to refurbish his flat, just not who. And that's somehow better?!

Even if he doesn't know, surely it's against the rules as he's still receiving financial help. Basically it's saying "I'm going to turn my back for ten seconds, put my fingers in my ears and when I turn around if there's a big pile of money there and no-one claims it I can have it. As I don't know where it came from I can't put it in the register can I."

Also if he didn't know who paid it who did he give the money to when he supposedly did cough up?

 

[Grendel]

So it says that Johnson knew someone else had paid to refurbish his flat, just not who. And that's somehow better?!

Even if he doesn't know, surely it's against the rules as he's still receiving financial help. Basically it's saying "I'm going to turn my back for ten seconds, put my fingers in my ears and when I turn around if there's a big pile of money there and no-one claims it I can have it. As I don't know where it came from I can't put it in the register can I."

Also if he didn't know who paid it who did he give the money to when he supposedly did cough up?

Meanwhile on planet reality Johnson goes from strength to strength and forecasts are Labour would lose 60 seats if we had election tomorrow

Voting Intention: Con 46%, Lab 28% (19-20 May) | YouGov

Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention figures

yougov.co.uk

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Meanwhile on planet reality Johnson goes from strength to strength and forecasts are Labour would lose 60 seats if we had election tomorrow

Voting Intention: Con 46%, Lab 28% (19-20 May) | YouGov

Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention figures

yougov.co.uk

You always seem to mistake me talking about the logicality of how things are as denying them. I'm only too aware of the reality. I bet you were mystified by Blair's popularity - doesn't mean you were denying the reality of that popularity.

What can't be ascertained is a logical reason for it. Johnson's been shown as inept, lazy, a liar, flouts the law, a financial fruitcake who wastes money, has unaffordable pie-in-the-sky ideas, was willing to let people die rather than do something unpopular, and yet is still massively popular.

Take off the Tory blinkers and just look at Johnson as a person and ask yourself why it is this man and the party remains popular. If all these faults were put onto Labour and their leader while they were in charge would you just be sitting there going "well, the polls show he's doing well so it'sclearly fine." Or would you be sitting there wondering what the fuck was going on.

You have this thing that if the Tories are winning so are you. You're not. Everyone is losing.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

You always seem to mistake me talking about the logicality of how things are as denying them. I'm only too aware of the reality. I bet you were mystified by Blair's popularity - doesn't mean you were denying the reality of that popularity.

What can't be ascertained is a logical reason for it. Johnson's been shown as inept, lazy, a liar, flouts the law, a financial fruitcake who wastes money, has unaffordable pie-in-the-sky ideas, was willing to let people die rather than do something unpopular, and yet is still massively popular.

Take off the Tory blinkers and just look at Johnson as a person and ask yourself why it is this man and the party remains popular. If all these faults were put onto Labour and their leader while they were in charge would you just be sitting there going "well, the polls show he's doing well so it'sclearly fine." Or would you be sitting there wondering what the fuck was going on.

You have this thing that if the Tories are winning so are you. You're not. Everyone is losing.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Are you saying that Johnson is deserving of his Teflon-coated bulletproof popularity? We've seen politicians and governments fall for way less than the current lot and yet their popularity does not diminish. Explain it.

You can put alll the 'but Labour' you want. I'm not a Labour voter. With the actions of this govt their popularity should be decreasing regardless of how shit Labour etc is. It may not be enough to make you think another party deserves your vote, but it sure as hell should be enough to convince you that this one doesn't.

Grendel wants MR gone and uses the smallest of things to call for that to happen. But this government can literally kill people and he'd pretty much be happy if they were given the opportunity to govern in perpetuity. If the same actions had been done by Labour he'd be close to calling for revolution if they weren't ousted. That is not a rational response. It's cult like.

And he's not alone. Brexit fuck-ups are being treated as victories. Fucking up 95% of the pandemic response (some of it deliberately with the PPE corruption) is ignored but the vaccine rollout is lauded. There are people are literally overlooking every single thing they do wrong or excusing it. They are our Trump.

 

[Ian1779]

Are you saying that Johnson is deserving of his Teflon-coated bulletproof popularity? We've seen politicians and governments fall for way less than the current lot and yet their popularity does not diminish. Explain it.

You can put alll the 'but Labour' you want. I'm not a Labour voter. With the actions of this govt their popularity should be decreasing regardless of how shit Labour etc is. It may not be enough to make you think another party deserves your vote, but it sure as hell should be enough to convince you that this one doesn't.

Grendel wants MR gone and uses the smallest of things to call for that to happen. But this government can literally kill people and he'd pretty much be happy if they were given the opportunity to govern in perpetuity. If the same actions had been done by Labour he'd be close to calling for revolution if they weren't ousted. That is not a rational response. It's cult like.

And he's not alone. Brexit fuck-ups are being treated as victories. Fucking up 95% of the pandemic response (some of it deliberately with the PPE corruption) is ignored but the vaccine rollout is lauded. There are people are literally overlooking every single thing they do wrong or excusing it. They are our Trump.

It’s the same kind of energy and mental gymnastics used to ignore the needless of deaths of people jettisoned into care homes, whilst similarly becoming apoplectic about Diane Abbott drink a mojito on the Tube.

It’s not actually about Labour at all, it’s about being against any kind of normal convention because ‘we won’t be brainwashed and told what to do like them fucking wokies’

 

[PVA]

The same people that were utterly outraged at the expenses scandal and demanding MPs be hung from London Bridge are the same people that defend blatant corruption to the hilt because Brexit and Boris.

 

[CCFCSteve]

It’s the same kind of energy and mental gymnastics used to ignore the needless of deaths of people jettisoned into care homes, whilst similarly becoming apoplectic about Diane Abbott drink a mojito on the Tube.

It’s not actually about Labour at all, it’s about being against any kind of normal convention because ‘we won’t be brainwashed and told what to do like them fucking wokies’

There is no doubt Johnson has made some fuck ups but most of the public view a fair bit of what is being thrown at him as a little OTT.

For example you mention about care homes when even according to cummings during his select committee hearing this week, the first thing Johnson asked about when starting to work again (after almost dying from covid himself) was checking about care homes. That one sounds like it’s on hancock (a Johnson appointment but still). Also SBD calls him lazy, when again, he nearly died whilst continuing to work when seriously ill with Covid ?!

There’s plenty of genuine issues with Johnson but by throwing the kitchen sink at him (some of which is either inaccurate or just wrong) probably leads the public to start ignoring the important stuff

Ps same happened with Corbyn in 2017. The media threw that much at him (some of which was genuine/true) but eventually a chunk of the public started feeling sorry for him so ignored the genuine concerns

 

[PVA]

There is no doubt Johnson has made some fuck ups but most of the public view a fair bit of what is being thrown at him as a little OTT.

For example you mention about care homes when even according to cummings during his select committee hearing this week, the first thing Johnson asked about when starting to work again (after almost dying from covid himself) was checking about care homes. That one sounds like it’s on hancock (a Johnson appointment but still). Also SBD calls him lazy, when again, he nearly died whilst continuing to work when seriously ill with Covid ?!

There’s plenty of genuine issues with Johnson but by throwing the kitchen sink at him (some of which is either inaccurate or just wrong) probably leads the public to start ignoring the important stuff

Ps same happened with Corbyn in 2017. The media threw that much at him (some of which was genuine/true) but eventually a chunk of the public started feeling sorry for him so ignored the genuine concerns

I'm sorry Steve you seem a decent bloke, but how on earth can the criticism of Johnson be over the top when tens of thousands of people died unnecessarily? The criticism is not over the top - it's not strong enough!

This is not about a few little errors. A few slight cock ups.

Tens of thousands of people died unnecessarily.

That cannot be understated. He literally has blood on his hands.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It’s the same kind of energy and mental gymnastics used to ignore the needless of deaths of people jettisoned into care homes, whilst similarly becoming apoplectic about Diane Abbott drink a mojito on the Tube.

It’s not actually about Labour at all, it’s about being against any kind of normal convention because ‘we won’t be brainwashed and told what to do like them fucking wokies’

This is exactly it. I'm not asking people why they're not voting/intending to vote for Labour. I couldn't give a fuck if they do or not - it's no skin of my nose. But just because you're put off by the other parties doesn't mean you have to vote Tory. So why do they?

it sure ain't cos they're any good and this kind of behaviour and performance should put anyone of sound mind off them to at least a decent degree. It doesn't. It seems like the more they do wrong the more those voting for them double down on their choice as if refusing to accept they could in anyway be wrong. Like I say, it's reminiscent of Trump's supporters.

If all this happening was under Labour, or LD, or Greens I'd want them out. It's completely unacceptable. If necessary say you don't intend to vote or are going to spoil your ballot. Imagine an election where the highest number of votes was 'spoilt ballot'. That would send more shockwaves and effect more change in the political system than anything right now and that is where I stand.

 

[Ian1779]

There is no doubt Johnson has made some fuck ups but most of the public view a fair bit of what is being thrown at him as a little OTT.

For example you mention about care homes when even according to cummings during his select committee hearing this week, the first thing Johnson asked about when starting to work again (after almost dying from covid himself) was checking about care homes. That one sounds like it’s on hancock (a Johnson appointment but still). Also SBD calls him lazy, when again, he nearly died whilst continuing to work when seriously ill with Covid ?!

There’s plenty of genuine issues with Johnson but by throwing the kitchen sink at him (some of which is either inaccurate or just wrong) probably leads the public to start ignoring the important stuff

Ps same happened with Corbyn in 2017. The media threw that much at him (some of which was genuine/true) but eventually a chunk of the public started feeling sorry for him so ignored the genuine concerns

Wallpaper, holidays I’m getting you - it’s not going to stick. But you can’t group the care homes scandal in the same category.
And SBD is right, he was lazy and dismissive about it all until it was too late. Doesn’t mean he didn’t work hard once the shit hit the fan though if indeed that is the case.