Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (255 Viewers)

[Saddlebrains]

Pathetic really isnt it. Media are scum in this country

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Pathetic really isnt it. Media are scum in this country

Caught a snippet from the former CSA that he has noticed a rise in cases that is not being followed by a rise in hospitalisations. Quite the opposite if anything those seem to be decreasing.

The arguments I have seen rest on ‘what about all those unvaccinated’, that being those largely under 30 who will be getting called up imminently and who have shown they are very keen to get jabbed. Then it’s ‘what about those who didn’t respond strongly to the vaccine’. Getting fully vaccinated and still seriously ill from COVID will happen to a very low % of people, just as flu vaccination does not prevent thousands or tens of thousands of flu deaths in a given winter.

We have followed the rules and done all that was asked of us to protect the many who needed protecting. By June 21st the vast majority will have at least some immunity and half or more will be fully jabbed. We had very low case and death rates last summer despite nobody being vaccinated-yes we have more transmissible variants but we now also have much stronger protection against NHS overwhelm than last time.

So just please don’t take this away from people at the last minute who have sacrificed a lot these past 16 months

 

[clint van damme]

He's right on this occasion but if we'd followed James Melvilles recommendations throughout the pandemic we'd be looking at an even more horrendous death toll.
He's a fucking roaster.

 

[shmmeee]

Lots of very sensible people saying there’s cause for concern including those who have been positive throughout. But yeah journalists are scum for mentioning it and viruses understand the mental toll people are having by having their events cancelled and will give us a break.

Come on people.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Lots of very sensible people saying there’s cause for concern including those who have been positive throughout. But yeah journalists are scum for mentioning it and viruses understand the mental toll people are having by having their events cancelled and will give us a break.

Come on people.

It is easy for you to say that with little investment, emotionally financially or otherwise, in the decisions made

 

[chiefdave]

Lots of very sensible people saying there’s cause for concern including those who have been positive throughout. But yeah journalists are scum for mentioning it and viruses understand the mental toll people are having by having their events cancelled and will give us a break.

Come on people.

Exactly. Go back and look at the numbers last summer, there's days with zero deaths reported but then cases started rising exponentially and look how we ended up.

Of course there is going to be concern when cases start rising exponentially again. We've got 3 weeks until 21 June, which seems to have morphed from the 'no earlier than' originally announced to a set in stone date, and everyone is hoping that doesn't lead to similar rises in hospitalisations and death.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Exactly. Go back and look at the numbers last summer, there's days with zero deaths reported but then cases started rising exponentially and look how we ended up.

Of course there is going to be concern when cases start rising exponentially again. We've got 3 weeks until 21 June, which seems to have morphed from the 'no earlier than' originally announced to a set in stone date, and everyone is hoping that doesn't lead to similar rises in hospitalisations and death.

What frustrates me is the contradiction. It is apparently OK for me to have been teaching 150 unvaccinated kids in poorly ventilated rooms for most of the year but it isn’t ok for 40 vaccinated people to be at a life event.

We have increasing evidence to show that they are cutting the link between case rates and hospitalisation. It is not quite the shot in the dark of last year

 

[Grendel]

Exactly. Go back and look at the numbers last summer, there's days with zero deaths reported but then cases started rising exponentially and look how we ended up.

Of course there is going to be concern when cases start rising exponentially again. We've got 3 weeks until 21 June, which seems to have morphed from the 'no earlier than' originally announced to a set in stone date, and everyone is hoping that doesn't lead to similar rises in hospitalisations and death.

We have had something called a vaccine roll out this time in case you haven’t noticed

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

They are literally opening a terminal for red list flights.

If they are coming in, then I am going on holiday. Absolute madness.

 

[Sick Boy]

They are literally opening a terminal for red list flights.

If they are coming in, then I am going on holiday. Absolute madness.

It’s madness, why aren’t they just stopping the flights?

 

[Grendel]

It’s madness, why aren’t they just stopping the flights?

Red flights incur a two week detention in an Ibis I think if your in that you’d have reason

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Red flights incur a two week detention in an Ibis I think if your in that you’d have reason

You are right, but it is quite easy to circumvent an exception.

Bear in mind up until now those passengers were mixing with others in the terminals anyway. Given the dodgy testing procedures at some of those airports, it's no wonder we have threats of new variants every week.

 

[Grendel]

You are right, but it is quite easy to circumvent an exception.

Bear in mind up until now those passengers were mixing with others in the terminals anyway. Given the dodgy testing procedures at some of those airports, it's no wonder we have threats of new variants every week.

I don’t think it is easy - it’s the amber rating that’s the odd one. All should be green or red and it’s impossible for the aviation industry to last another summer with zero travel

 

[chiefdave]

We have had something called a vaccine roll out this time in case you haven’t noticed

Which is the reason there is, as I said, hope that an exponential rise in cases doesn't lead to a rise in hospitalisations and deaths.

The idea that if hospitalisations and deaths start to rise in line with the rise we're seeing in cases we just ignore it seems very bizarre to me. Not sure anyone can claim 'nobody could have predicted this' yet again.

 

[Grendel]

Which is the reason there is, as I said, hope that an exponential rise in cases doesn't lead to a rise in hospitalisations and deaths.

The idea that if hospitalisations and deaths start to rise in line with the rise we're seeing in cases we just ignore it seems very bizarre to me. Not sure anyone can claim 'nobody could have predicted this' yet again.

if that did happen then the vaccine has failed. Would you close everything again?

 

[chiefdave]

They are literally opening a terminal for red list flights.

If they are coming in, then I am going on holiday. Absolute madness.

About time, although how effective it will be given it seems fairly easy to circumvent the rules, not to mention the amber list shambles, remains to be seen.

Supposed to be essential travel only to amber list countries yet there's reports of hundred of thousands of Brits heading to the likes of Spain on holiday. Was also a survey that showed a third of them planning to not follow the self isolation rules upon their return.

 

[shmmeee]

if that did happen then the vaccine has failed. Would you close everything again?

Depends on the situation doesn’t it?

If the vaccine has “failed” at one dose for the new variant then you wait until people have had two. If it needs a booster shot maybe you do that.

18 months on and you seem to be struggling with the idea of following the data still. And also with the idea that people try and keep themselves safe even if the government doesn’t tell them to.

If hundreds of people a day start dying again people will lock themselves down and business will go under because they’re officially open but no one is patronising them.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Which is the reason there is, as I said, hope that an exponential rise in cases doesn't lead to a rise in hospitalisations and deaths.

The idea that if hospitalisations and deaths start to rise in line with the rise we're seeing in cases we just ignore it seems very bizarre to me. Not sure anyone can claim 'nobody could have predicted this' yet again.

If that happens we will essentially have to permanently shut hotels, restaurants, cinemas, theatres, nightclubs, most high street shops and say goodbye to large crowds at sports and music events. Which some people I know elsewhere are already comfortable with

 

[chiefdave]

if that did happen then the vaccine has failed. Would you close everything again?

Why would it mean the vaccine had failed? Vaccines aren't 100% and the majority of the adult population aren't fully vaccinated. If hospitals are full of the fully vaccinated then there would certainly be questions about the claimed effectiveness of the vaccines but I don't think anyone has suggested that have they?

I'd probably go with the recommendation of the experts rather than people off a football forum to be honest.

 

[Grendel]

Depends on the situation doesn’t it?

If the vaccine has “failed” at one dose for the new variant then you wait until people have had two. If it needs a booster shot maybe you do that.

18 months on and you seem to be struggling with the idea of following the data still. And also with the idea that people try and keep themselves safe even if the government doesn’t tell them to.

If hundreds of people a day start dying again people will lock themselves down and business will go under because they’re officially open but no one is patronising them.

I’m hardly struggling with following the data but oddly the data does not also include economic balance

Also as you follow the data tell me how many people under 50 have succumbed to the virus who have not already been vaccinated

If in your scenario hundreds are still dying (which there’s no evidence to suggest will happen) would you close everything again? Let’s then say that it was found there’s no cure - would you like down forever?

 

[Grendel]

Why would it mean the vaccine had failed? Vaccines aren't 100% and the majority of the adult population aren't fully vaccinated. If hospitals are full of the fully vaccinated then there would certainly be questions about the claimed effectiveness of the vaccines but I don't think anyone has suggested that have they?

I'd probably go with the recommendation of the experts rather than people off a football forum to be honest.

How many under 50’s not vaccinated by June 21 would be likely to die given what we know?

 

[Grendel]

If that happens we will essentially have to permanently shut hotels, restaurants, cinemas, theatres, nightclubs, most high street shops and say goodbye to large crowds at sports and music events. Which some people I know elsewhere are already comfortable with

some people are happy with a wfh culture and couldn’t care less about wider society

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

How many under 50’s not vaccinated by June 21 would be likely to die given what we know?

That category would include a fair % of 29 and under who aren’t CEV. A fraction of a percent of deaths and hospitalisations

 

[CCFCSteve]

About time, although how effective it will be given it seems fairly easy to circumvent the rules, not to mention the amber list shambles, remains to be seen.

Supposed to be essential travel only to amber list countries yet there's reports of hundred of thousands of Brits heading to the likes of Spain on holiday. Was also a survey that showed a third of them planning to not follow the self isolation rules upon their return.

The final sentence is what’s annoying (disgusting) me and from what I heard was happening when some people were returning from India. I mean, WTF...potentially travelling when you don’t need to, returning early (to avoid hotel detention) from a country where you know transmission rates are high and it’s about to go on the red list and then not bothering self isolating on return. Selfish c**ts !


ps that’s not to say, things like the amber list isn’t a shambles !

 

[SBT]

It is easy for you to say that with little investment, emotionally financially or otherwise, in the decisions made

Without meaning to discount anyone's opinion, there's an obvious tension when people with a financial interest in restrictions being lifted on June 21 demand that it happens. For the scientists arguing that it might instead be dangerous (and I don't know how "easy" it is for them to do so), what tension exists for them?

 

[Saddlebrains]

Fucking had enough. Data is there to show hospitalisations and deaths are fuck all, despite 4 weeks plus of this world ending variant.

The vaccine works. We live with this or we stay locked up forever, which a few on here would get hard over.

Get everything open

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Without meaning to discount anyone's opinion, there's an obvious tension when people with a financial interest in restrictions being lifted on June 21 demand that it happens. For the scientists arguing that it might instead be dangerous (and I don't know how "easy" it is for them to do so), what tension exists for them?

I am a scientist too, and I’m looking at the vast numbers we have with some or full vaccine protection, then comparing to those remaining unvaccinated who comprise the bulk of infections but a tiny proportion of serious cases. Those remaining by June 21st will be an even smaller group still.

And yet all this time I have been expected to teach 150 people a day with poor ventilation, no priority for a vaccine and no ability to mandate mask wearing to students. But the idea of a wedding where all guests are vaccinated is ‘too dangerous’

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

About time, although how effective it will be given it seems fairly easy to circumvent the rules, not to mention the amber list shambles, remains to be seen.

Supposed to be essential travel only to amber list countries yet there's reports of hundred of thousands of Brits heading to the likes of Spain on holiday. Was also a survey that showed a third of them planning to not follow the self isolation rules upon their return.

There aren't enough flights running at the moment to take people to Spain in such high numbers. From next week there are meant to be many more, with the likes of TUI ramping up again.

I cannot blame anyone for wanting to go on holiday, and everyone will have to take the tests to be allowed to travel. I am more concerned about people coming into the country from red list locations and flouncing the rules. It isn't fair to expect society to abide by the rules and make so many exceptions for others.

My parents have both had each vaccine and are now prepared to go on holiday in July. How can one shame or blame them? The amber list is deliberately ambiguous I think, but it won't stop a lot of people later in the summer. Also, Schapps is announcing new additions to the green list on Thursday. I imagine the Canary Islands will be on it, for example.

Below: Departure list for Birmingham Airport today - many of the scheduled flights have not actually departed. I expect from next week that will ramp up a gear.

 

[SBT]

I am a scientist too, and I’m looking at the vast numbers we have with some or full vaccine protection, then comparing to those remaining unvaccinated who comprise the bulk of infections but a tiny proportion of serious cases. Those remaining by June 21st will be an even smaller group still.

And yet all this time I have been expected to teach 150 people a day with poor ventilation, no priority for a vaccine and no ability to mandate mask wearing to students. But the idea of a wedding where all guests are vaccinated is ‘too dangerous’

Well it's easy for you to say that when you have a clear financial and emotional interest in reopening etc etc. Tim Martin might make a similar argument.

I don't disagree with any of what you're saying - Tim Martin might well be right too! - but the idea that we should be discounting/ignoring expert opinion because we don't think they have enough skin in the game seems like a bad idea to me. The fact that people who even just want to hear these opinions in the first place are being painted as lockdown-loving doom-mongers shows that we've maybe not learned that much from the past 18 months.

 

[PVA]

Maybe instead of calling the media scum for reporting facts people might like to direct their anger at the government and ask why they continued to allow flights from India for weeks despite the presence of the Indian variant.

If the restrictions have to be extended, and hopefully they don’t, then the government is solely to blame, not the media.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I am a scientist too, and I’m looking at the vast numbers we have with some or full vaccine protection, then comparing to those remaining unvaccinated who comprise the bulk of infections but a tiny proportion of serious cases. Those remaining by June 21st will be an even smaller group still.

And yet all this time I have been expected to teach 150 people a day with poor ventilation, no priority for a vaccine and no ability to mandate mask wearing to students. But the idea of a wedding where all guests are vaccinated is ‘too dangerous’

I'm rooting for you to have that wedding.

I have also been invited to a wedding on the 21st and 24th (an Indian wedding actually so you know those things go on for days). It is possible I may not be able to make it though, as with quarantine in the Netherlands and The UK each end would mean I would be stuck without being able to work on client site for too long.

 

[Grendel]

Lol BSB is now Tim Martin

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Maybe instead of calling the media scum for reporting facts people might like to direct their anger at the government and ask why they continued to allow flights from India for weeks despite the presence of the Indian variant.

If the restrictions have to be extended, and hopefully they don’t, then the government is solely to blame, not the media.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't the government who ran a story yesterday demonising people trying to get a vaccine at Twickenham...

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well it's easy for you to say that when you have a clear financial and emotional interest in reopening etc etc. Tim Martin might make a similar argument.

I don't disagree with any of what you're saying - Tim Martin might well be right too! - but the idea that we should be discounting/ignoring expert opinion because we don't think they have enough skin in the game seems like a bad idea to me. The fact that people who even just want to hear these opinions in the first place are being painted as lockdown-loving doom-mongers shows that we've maybe not learned that much from the past 18 months.

Tim Martin wants to pack his bargain basement pubs ASAP. I want to get married with 40 people there. Slight difference and Scotland already allows 50

 

[PVA]

I'm pretty sure it wasn't the government who ran a story yesterday demonising people trying to get a vaccine at Twickenham...

What does that have to do with allowing flights from India?

What a strange counter argument.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't the media who allowed thousands of people to arrive from India.