The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (80 Viewers)

[Evo1883]

So we've trashed the economy, put people out of business, ruined fishing and farming industries, wasted eye watering sums of money all for... no benefit whatsoever?

And you wonder why people think Brexit is a totally pointless waste of time!

Like I said , I've felt no difference at all ..
That was my answer to the question you gave somebody else

It's really hard to gauge anything about anything isn't it as COVID has wrecked the economy enough by itself.

 

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[PVA]

Like I said , I've felt no difference at all ..
That was my answer to the question you gave somebody else

Yeah and that's my point. All that destruction and disruption for absolutely no improvement in our lives!

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

95% of peoples lives do not change and thats the point

They do, just not immediately and it takes time for policies to have an effect so some people don't put the two together. Unfortunately that works when things get worse as well. So for example loads of new food banks are put down to various reasons when in fact most of those reasons can be traced back to the keys to No.10 being handed to a Tory government hellbent on austerity and cuts.

 

[Grendel]

They do, just not immediately and it takes time for policies to have an effect so some people don't put the two together. Unfortunately that works when things get worse as well. So for example loads of new food banks are put down to various reasons when in fact most of those reasons can be traced back to the keys to No.10 being handed to a Tory government hellbent on austerity and cuts.

Utter nonsense as usual - at least you are consistent

 

[Evo1883]

Yeah and that's my point. All that destruction and disruption for absolutely no improvement in our lives!

I don't know why you keep blaming our country's current misfortunes on brexit .

We are currently still riding the tail end of one of the worst economic disasters in history..

 

[skybluetony176]

I don't know why you keep blaming our country's current misfortunes on brexit .

We are currently still riding the tail end of one of the worst economic disasters in history..

When you say worst economic disaster in history are you still talking about Brexit?

 

[PVA]

I don't know why you keep blaming our country's current misfortunes on brexit .

We are currently still riding the tail end of one of the worst economic disasters in history..

I assume you are referring to Covid, and not the GFC?

There's plenty of evidence of widespread damage caused by Brexit since well before Covid even existed.

And since Covid has been around all countries have suffered but we have suffered the most.

Is fishing and farming being ruined anything to do with Covid?

 

[Evo1883]

When you say worst economic disaster in history are you still talking about Brexit?

I just find it completely strange if I'm honest that we've only officially left the EU several months ago , but are 15 months into a total face fuck economically due to covid 19 ... yet brexit is blamed on everything ... it's not possible

 

[skybluetony176]

95% of peoples lives do not change and thats the point

So you’re saying that Brexit was a complete waste of time and energy then. Plus aren’t you admitting that the leave campaign was a complete lie. Given that it was all sunlit uplands, only considerable benefits etc.

 

[Evo1883]

I assume you are referring to Covid, and not the GFC?

There's plenty of evidence of widespread damage caused by Brexit since well before Covid even existed.

And since Covid has been around all countries have suffered but we have suffered the most.

Is fishing and farming being ruined anything to do with Covid?

A few weeks ago you and Tony were blaming food and drink imports exports being down on brexit .. and tried to totally ignore the fact the country was shut for months.

It's weird .

I get it mate, we will have many difficult times , but it's tiring and full of half truths to blame our country's problems on brexit right now

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I just find it completely strange if I'm honest that we've only officially left the EU several months ago , but are 15 months into a total face fuck economically due to covid 19 ... yet brexit is blamed on everything ... it's not possible

The situation with customs going in and out of NI is utter carnage and almost entirely due to Brexit.

 

[shmmeee]

I just find it completely strange if I'm honest that we've only officially left the EU several months ago , but are 15 months into a total face fuck economically due to covid 19 ... yet brexit is blamed on everything ... it's not possible

Except we’ve got a nice control group because every nation got hit with COVID but only we did Brexit and you can compare the hit on EU trade with rest of the world.

Aside from anything else. It’s blatantly obvious it’ll hit our economy. That’s what restricting trade does by definition. The question was always was it worth being poorer for some concept of freedom. Even the Brexit backing economists accepted it would damage the economy.

 

[Evo1883]

The situation with customs going in and out of NI is utter carnage and almost entirely due to Brexit.

Yes ofcourse ,

That's not what's being said .

We know there are problems but not all our problems are due to brexit

 

[skybluetony176]

My life is no different at all if im honest

Infact , I can't remember an election over the last 20 years where I felt any different at All

Really? Not even when Blair first got in and it was all Cool Britannia, boom boom boom economy ect. I despise Blair but I think if you can’t look back to that period and can’t remember how positive the country was at that time I think you must have been living on a different planet. It is without doubt the most hopeful period in this country that I’ve witnessed in my lifetime by a country mile.

 

[Evo1883]

Except we’ve got a nice control group because every nation got hit with COVID but only we did Brexit and you can compare the hit on EU trade with rest of the world.

Aside from anything else. It’s blatantly obvious it’ll hit our economy. That’s what restricting trade does by definition. The question was always was it worth being poorer for some concept of freedom. Even the Brexit backing economists accepted it would damage the economy.

We also know that Britain has dealt with covid terribly over the course of the virus .. which doesn't help when comparing it to all the other country's in Europe, some of which have managed much better and kept things ticking over better

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes ofcourse ,

That's not what's being said .

We know there are problems but not all our problems are due to brexit

Pretty massive one though. The impending end of the Union not a small matter

 

[Evo1883]

Really? Not even when Blair first got in and it was all Cool Britannia, boom boom boom economy ect. I despise Blair but I think if you can’t look back to that period and can’t remember how positive the country was at that time I think you must have been living on a different planet. It is without doubt the most hopeful period in this country that I’ve witnessed in my lifetime by a country mile.

I was too young to vote when he was elected and only remember from a year or so before iraq onwards .

Since I've been old enough , my life hasn't changed dramatically after an election.. In any way shape or form

 

[shmmeee]

We also know that Britain has dealt with covid terribly over the course of the virus .. which doesn't help when comparing it to all the other country's in Europe, some of which have managed much better and kept things ticking over better

Yeah that’s fair.

I’m still not sure anyone ever said we’d have a stronger economy right now though did they? Most Brexiters I’ve heard said it would be “short term pain for long term gain” and “could be 50 years before we see the benefits”.

Was watching some videos with Brexit voting farmers and many said they’d vote the same again even though it’s hurt them because it was about freedom not economics.

Of course, they then asked why we aren’t using that freedom to protect British farmers but that’s another topic.

 

[skybluetony176]

Like I said , I've felt no difference at all ..
That was my answer to the question you gave somebody else

It's really hard to gauge anything about anything isn't it as COVID has wrecked the economy enough by itself.

But Covid isn’t a U.K. abnormally. If we were living in a world boom Brexit should be delivering a bigger boom, if we’re in a world recession whether that’s caused by a pandemic or banking crisis or whatever Brexit should be helping absorb that pain. If you let facts cloud your judgment it’s blatantly clear that Brexit is a further hindrance not a tool to help us recover quicker than the “fools”who’ve remained in the EU

 

[shmmeee]

I was too young to vote when he was elected and only remember from a year or so before iraq onwards .

Since I've been old enough , my life hasn't changed dramatically after an election.. In any way shape or form

I left school in ‘97. The economy and general feel of the nation 97-2007 compared to 2008-2020 is night and day. More jobs, higher wages, just a general feeling of confidence and optimism around the country. Of course it may have helped that I was in my 20s, but just looking at wages both my apprenticeship and first job out of Uni paid way better than you’d see today.

 

[Evo1883]

Yeah that’s fair.

I’m still not sure anyone ever said we’d have a stronger economy right now though did they? Most Brexiters I’ve heard said it would be “short term pain for long term gain” and “could be 50 years before we see the benefits”.

Was watching some videos with Brexit voting farmers and many said they’d vote the same again even though it’s hurt them because it was about freedom not economics.

Of course, they then asked why we aren’t using that freedom to protect British farmers but that’s another topic.

I believe I've always said we would be hit hard at first .

The worst possible situation is now dealing with the economic fallout of both brexit and covid 19 .

Every timeline of economic recovery has just been blown out the water...who knows what the next 10 years holds.

 

[Evo1883]

I left school in ‘97. The economy and general feel of the nation 97-2007 compared to 2008-2020 is night and day. More jobs, higher wages, just a general feeling of confidence and optimism around the country. Of course it may have helped that I was in my 20s, but just looking at wages both my apprenticeship and first job out of Uni paid way better than you’d see today.

My dad always said the early Blair years were great for him .
But even he can't tell me what's different about his life since then .

It's all very much been as you were post elections

 

[skybluetony176]

I was too young to vote when he was elected and only remember from a year or so before iraq onwards .

Since I've been old enough , my life hasn't changed dramatically after an election.. In any way shape or form

I was too young to vote under Maggie but I still remember the lights going out, having my milk snatched, short working weeks, the rubbish piling high, the miners strike, poll tax riots etc. The first two terms under Blair were without doubt as good as it’s got in my lifetime. It’s the only period I can remember when we had politics of hope and not fear.

 

[Evo1883]

I was too young to vote under Maggie but I still remember the lights going out, having my milk snatched, short working weeks, the rubbish piling high, the miners strike, poll tax riots etc. The first two terms under Blair were without doubt as good as it’s got in my lifetime. It’s the only period I can remember when we had politics of hope and not fear.

Unfortunately I wasn't a working adult going out on my own in life in 96/7 so I can't relate

 

[skybluetony176]

The situation with customs going in and out of NI is utter carnage and almost entirely due to Brexit.

Not almost, it is entirely due to Brexit.

 

[PVA]

A few weeks ago you and Tony were blaming food and drink imports exports being down on brexit .. and tried to totally ignore the fact the country was shut for months.

It's weird .

I get it mate, we will have many difficult times , but it's tiring and full of half truths to blame our country's problems on brexit right now

Yes, they were down because of Brexit.

Have a look at the UK's exports to the EU vs rest of the world.

Did the EU stop eating food during Covid while the rest of the world carried on eating?

Or did we put up massive trade barriers?

It's not rocket science mate

 

[shmmeee]

I think anyone at school in the 80s/90s who has been into a modern school would see the difference as well. Blair transformed health and education environments. Of course how he paid for that is another question. But in terms of real world impact that’s got to be up there.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Utter nonsense as usual - at least you are consistent

So if government doesn't affect people's lives why do we spend a fortune having one then?

 

[Grendel]

My dad always said the early Blair years were great for him .
But even he can't tell me what's different about his life since then .

It's all very much been as you were post elections

Blair and Brown wrecked final salary pension schemes which will have significant implications over the next few years in terms of pension poverty

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Blair and Brown wrecked final salary pension schemes which will have significant implications over the next few years in terms of pension poverty

Nothing to stop the Tories from reinstating them in the last 10+ years has there?

 

[shmmeee]

Blair and Brown wrecked final salary pension schemes which will have significant implications over the next few years in terms of pension poverty

You don’t half speak some utter shite.

 

[Grendel]

Nothing to stop the Tories from reinstating them in the last 10+ years has there?

How would that have even been possible?

 

[Grendel]

You don’t half speak some utter shite.

Are you looking in the mirror when you say that?

 

[shmmeee]

Are you looking in the mirror when you say that?

Sick burn bro.

Feel free to explain your jabberings though, should be interesting.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Are you looking in the mirror when you say that?

GRNDL -10