Do you want to discuss boring politics? (148 Viewers)

[Grendel]

He probably galvanised support TBH. The Tories still should’ve won though. Where did the Kipper Independent votes go?

Turnout was 47% so difficult to say I assume a lot just didn’t vote

 

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[PVA]

Wow didn't see that result coming, very surprised.

No but at by elections you have to have policies on everything and are held responsible for everything if you are Labour. If you're Tory you can hide away, put out a vague promise to "level up' and nobody will remember that your party has been in power for 11 years and will vote for you as you represent the change they angrily want.

This. Sad but true.

Remember these same people think more food banks is a great success for Tories. You just can't reason with people like that, they'll believe whatever they're told to believe by Dear Leader.

 

[shmmeee]

He didn’t get kicked out of the PLP for racism - you’re talking shit there.
They literally had to lock Starmer up ‘fridge-style’ and he managed what a dozen or so tweets in support?
But you keep getting outraged about the former leader and how we should all unequivocally get behind the current leader regardless…

defintely.not.a.cult.

He quite literally did. He’s not only refusing to apologise for the racism under his watch but blaming it on da joos. He just has to take that back to get the whip back and he won’t.

And I don’t think you’ve read anything I’ve written if you think I’m saying support Starmer unconditionally. I’m saying there’s nothing better so get behind the party and don’t support racists and homophobes who cover for despicable regimes.

 

[Ian1779]

And I don’t think you’ve read anything I’ve written if you think I’m saying support Starmer unconditionally. I’m saying there’s nothing better so get behind the party and don’t support racists and homophobes who cover for despicable regimes.

But you’re equating ‘the left’ with people like that and it’s not on. It seems your centrist dad ‘hot take’ is that the left are gutted that Labour held the seat…

I want Labour to win as much as you, but the party have to be reflective at this point on Batley (and Hartlepool too) and think about the direction. It’s not the time to crow and think everything is all dandy.

 

[shmmeee]

But you’re equating ‘the left’ with people like that and it’s not on. It seems your centrist dad ‘hot take’ is that the left are gutted that Labour held the seat…

I want Labour to win as much as you, but the party have to be reflective at this point on Batley (and Hartlepool too) and think about the direction. It’s not the time to crow and think everything is all dandy.

Not “the left” I’m on the left. The group of supposed left wing people like Jones, Corbyn, Galloway, et al who have acted exactly like the worst of the right since Corbyn resigned.

They aren’t “the left” they’re some left wing people.

Of course everything isn’t fine and dandy. We have serious demographic issues that will make winning elections very hard, Corbyn out rocket boosters under our loss of voters due to mismatching values and no one else in the party is willing to address that.

Im fucked if I know what the answer is, I don’t think anyone on the left does, but it sure as hell isn’t racism, homophobia, supporting dictators and being so liberal anyone outside the 15% most liberal is a bigot. That whole left wing media industrial complex can get in the bin. Just in it for the cash and glorious defeat and constant whinging about other factions, with no interest in improving people’s lives.

Starmer is white bread. He’s inoffensive and bland and until we figure out what the hell the lefts winning strategy is he’s as good as anyone else. The fact that Cooper (who is just Starmer in a dress) is by far the mos popular next candidate should tell you how silly pushing for him to go now is.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

 

[Skybluefaz]

LAB +10

 

[Deleted member 4439]

LAB +10

I think you misunderstand where this is going.

 

[Skybluefaz]

I think you misunderstand where this is going.

Correct.

 

[PVA]

I think the shine is (slowly) coming off Johnson/the Tories.

Remember after Hartlepool everyone crowing about what a dramatic victory it was (and it was, to be fair), and it was the end of Labour and Tories are unbeatable.

Those people are very quiet now.

First we had Chesham & Amersham, now Batley & Spen. Both expected to be easy Tory victories. Two big anti-Tory wins.

Tories didn't even gain votes in Batley, they lost vote share (to a racist homophobe, no less).

I don't know if this Hancock business is the straw that broke the camel's back but I think people are starting to have enough of Tory bullshit. Early days obviously, but another by election loss for the Tories down south any time soon would really make me think people starting to get fed up with them.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Didn't see that coming. No idea why it happened (low turnout, Galloway, Hancock, keeping some lockdown restrictions?) but after expecting a Tory win it does reaffirm a litle bit of faith in me that maybe people might just be seeing past the incompetence and corruption at the heart of govt.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It is called growing a backbone and not implementing Tory cuts to local services which should have happened.

Amazing how money can now be found to protect businesses that didn't bother to get the correct insurance to get through a pandemic.

A hat stand with a red rosette would have been more effective in defending cuts to local services than a lot of Labour councillors

City Centre first though eh?

They can't just refuse to cut anything because they still won't be getting the money. When the budget goes through putting through those cuts you do realise it's only the MP's that vote? The Tories have a huge majority so it's never going to get voted no matter how much Labour MP's or LA's complain. For it to have even a small chance of being effective it'd have to include numerous Tory run LA's campaigning against the cuts and most aren't going to rock the boat. Far too many have personal political ambitions to do that.

Allied to the fact that more things that were previously under central government budget have been pushed into LA spending they're getting far less to spend and more things they need to spend it on. The LA has the right to choose what of those things they provide to cut, but they have to cut something. If the don't the LA is just going to be in a financial black hole and while you might argue "well, are they really going to just let somewhere go bankrupt?" I say yes, esp if it's a Labour council cos it'd just give them a win in being able to say "we told you Labour we're economically inept".

I agree with you about more money magically being found for other things but as I said it's parliament who get to make those decisions and that's got a strong Tory stranglehold. Until people make that connection that the cuts are central government rather than LA focused the practice of cutting LA funding won't change.

 

[Northants Sky Blue]

The Tories were 1/6 to win yesterday so their claims of being `not bothered' sound like a dumped 14 year old teenager.

However, if Labour want to challenge on a national scale they should follow this advice in todays Independent Op-ed piece-

Labour remains in a mess – the Batley and Spen result doesn’t change that

(the left of the party) obediently attack every bit of made-up “woke” bait Johnson waves at them

 

[David O'Day]

The Tories were 1/6 to win yesterday so their claims of being `not bothered' sound like a dumped 14 year old teenager.

However, if Labour want to challenge on a national scale they should follow this advice in todays Independent Op-ed piece-

Labour remains in a mess – the Batley and Spen result doesn’t change that

It's an awful result for the Tories given there was no credible challenge to their base.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I know it's his job to big the party up but Starmer saying 'Labour are back' isn't going to fool anyone. This wasn't a Labour win - it was a Tory loss and even then it was incredibly close. I think the deciding factor may well have been it being Jo Cox's sister running.

 

[Grendel]

I know it's his job to big the party up but Starmer saying 'Labour are back' isn't going to fool anyone. This wasn't a Labour win - it was a Tory loss and even then it was incredibly close. I think the deciding factor may well have been it being Jo Cox's sister running.

if it’s a Tory loss given it’s a Labour seat and I think has been since 1997 then Labour is in an even more dire position than most think

 

[COV]

So can someone summarise what happened, was it the total wipeout for labour some were predicting

 

[Grendel]

So can someone summarise what happened, was it the total wipeout for labour some were predicting

who was predicting that? You I assume have seen the result

 

[COV]

who was predicting that? You I assume have seen the result

I have not seen anything

And I would not be crowing about it whichever way it went as I am not on either side. Just interested to see who got it right & wrong on here that’s all

 

[COV]

I have not seen anything

And I would not be crowing about it whichever way it went as I am not on either side. Just interested to see who got it right & wrong on here that’s all

Ok having read the above posts I can work out what happened.

People getting tired of Conservatives or a show of faith in labour? Both?

Doesn’t look like a labour win with that kind of margin, looks like a conservative loss

 

[PVA]

It was a Tory loss.

They were 1/5 to win, or something like that.

Trying to claim they're not disappointed by it is the political equivalent of 'didn't fancy her anyway'.

 

[COV]

It was a Tory loss.

They were 1/5 to win, or something like that.

Trying to claim they're not disappointed by it is the political equivalent of 'didn't fancy her anyway'.

Ok so conservatives left with egg on their faces, however labour celebrating something which would have been a given just a few years ago, highlighting the state they’re actually in

Would it not have been better for Starmer to acknowledge Labour’s struggles and use the narrow margin of victory to commit to changing things? People will see through this, celebrating this seems to be missing the point, would be like Robins dancing with delight at beating Nuneaton Borough with a late own goal in the FA Cup after being under the cosh all match

 

[PVA]

Ok so conservatives left with egg on their faces, however labour celebrating something which would have been a given just a few years ago, highlighting the state they’re actually in

Would it not have been better for Starmer to acknowledge Labour’s struggles and use the narrow margin of victory to commit to changing things? People will see through this, celebrating this seems to be missing the point, would be like Robins dancing with delight at beating Nuneaton Borough with a late own goal in the FA Cup after being under the cosh all match

Nuneaton Borough wouldn't be 1/5 to beat us though

 

[COV]

Nuneaton Borough wouldn't be 1/5 to beat us though

They might be now we’ve signed Sheaf if the general reaction to his signing is anything to go by

 

[skybluetony176]

Ok so conservatives left with egg on their faces, however labour celebrating something which would have been a given just a few years ago, highlighting the state they’re actually in

Would it not have been better for Starmer to acknowledge Labour’s struggles and use the narrow margin of victory to commit to changing things? People will see through this, celebrating this seems to be missing the point, would be like Robins dancing with delight at beating Nuneaton Borough with a late own goal in the FA Cup after being under the cosh all match

We live in a post truth world where something staying the same is seen as a mammoth victory. Starmer is just joining in with the current mood of the country.

 

[COV]

We live in a post truth world where something staying the same is seen as a mammoth victory. Starmer is just joining in with the current mood of the country.

Like us going mad at staying in the same division, I get you

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

if it’s a Tory loss given it’s a Labour seat and I think has been since 1997 then Labour is in an even more dire position than most think

Tories were favourites to win it. Most people are surprised it didn't swing back. And I don't see what Labour have done, other than the choice of candidate, to arrest their recent decline. Which leaves the possibility of the Tories putting people off voting for them. And you got a multiple choice of reasons for that.

 

[skybluetony176]

Like us going mad at staying in the same division, I get you

That was a win.

 

[shmmeee]

I know it's his job to big the party up but Starmer saying 'Labour are back' isn't going to fool anyone. This wasn't a Labour win - it was a Tory loss and even then it was incredibly close. I think the deciding factor may well have been it being Jo Cox's sister running.

It’s a start to painting a more positive image. And as Johnson has shown positivity takes you a long way. I seriously doubt anyone in his office genuinely thinks this means all his problems are over. I think I read it was the biggest swing to a governing party in a by election for 39 years.

That said as discussed earlier perhaps his team really are that blind.

 

[shmmeee]

if it’s a Tory loss given it’s a Labour seat and I think has been since 1997 then Labour is in an even more dire position than most think

Right wing vote has been higher than left there every year other than when Blair was in power I believe. It’s a Tory seat in reality and will likely go that way at the next GE.

 

[Ian1779]

Tories were favourites to win it. Most people are surprised it didn't swing back. And I don't see what Labour have done, other than the choice of candidate, to arrest their recent decline. Which leaves the possibility of the Tories putting people off voting for them. And you got a multiple choice of reasons for that.

In this particular example, I think it’s a combination of the candidate putting a lot of hard yards on the ground, and a bit of the Tory vote not coming out (being it wasn’t a GE)

 

[Northants Sky Blue]

As long as right-wing print media dictates public opinion any Labour leader wanting to genuinely be PM has to hold their nose and pick up the phone to Murdoch et al

If Blair hadnt done this we'd have had nearly 50 years of unbroken Tory rule

 

[shmmeee]

A right leaning print media still dictates public opinion so any Labour leader wanting to be PM has to hold their nose and pick up the phone to Murdoch.

Blair proved this.

Sun readership in 1996 when Blair was leader: 4.5m

Sun readership today: 1.3m

Also people can think for themselves and a majority hold very different opinions to the sun, they’re just not in the 15% most socially liberal that make up the online left.

 

[Northants Sky Blue]

Correct but controlling the narrative isnt necessarily reflected in readership figures. Look at the Hancock story.

Its unpalatable but if we dont want a one-party state they've got to at least try and get some of the papers onside.

i dont want the Labour party effectively staying as just a debating society

 

[David O'Day]

Right wing vote has been higher than left there every year other than when Blair was in power I believe. It’s a Tory seat in reality and will likely go that way at the next GE.

Galloway painted himself as running from the "left" - Apart from the tories there was no credible party campaigning as being on the "right"

Also 2017 Labour took over 50% of the vote alone and in 2010 the progressive vote i.e. Labour and Lib Dems out numbered the tories.