Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (206 Viewers)

[Evo1883]

That is actually pretty shocking.




Who the fuck drinks Pepsi at home?

It's worse, it's diet Pepsi

 

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[Grendel]

Certain regions here are likely to have restrictions increased again due to increases in cases in them.

As FP says once Europe catches up with vaccine roll out I can’t see how restrictions can be imposed

Spain have deemed last years lockdown unconstitutional

Cases are rising massively there and also in Netherlands

 

[Sick Boy]

As FP says once Europe catches up with vaccine roll out I can’t see how restrictions can be imposed

Spain have deemed last years lockdown unconstitutional

Cases are rising massively there and also in Netherlands

Believe it or not but each country actually has its own rules and governments.
Is that why the Netherlands is reimposing restrictions after opening up the country?
Italy is 12% (ish) behind the UK in terms of second doses now - so it’s not that far behind.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Believe it or not but each country actually has its own rules and governments.

Spain was also a technicality, they declared the wrong state.

 

[Grendel]

Believe it or not but each country actually has its own rules and governments. Italy is 12% (ish) behind the UK in terms of second doses now - so it’s not that far behind.

Some it seems exceed their authority

Covid: Spain's top court rules lockdown unconstitutional

People fined for breaking lockdown rules will now be able to reclaim their money, the top court says.

www.google.co.uk

 

[Sick Boy]

Some it seems exceed their authority

Covid: Spain's top court rules lockdown unconstitutional

People fined for breaking lockdown rules will now be able to reclaim their money, the top court says.

www.google.co.uk

Yea it was a technicality.

 

[Grendel]

Yea it was a technicality.

Regardless it was still found to be incorrect

 

[Sick Boy]

Regardless it was still found to be incorrect

And restrictions in Spain are still in place and are being tightened with 50% having had both doses.

 

[Grendel]

And restrictions in Spain are still in place and are being tightened.

Which isn’t working….

 

[Sick Boy]

Which isn’t working….

The regions reimposing them only implemented them a few days ago.

 

[skybluetony176]

Believe it or not but each country actually has its own rules and governments.
Is that why the Netherlands is reimposing restrictions after opening up the country?
Italy is 12% (ish) behind the UK in terms of second doses now - so it’s not that far behind.

We’re going to lose on penalties again.

 

[MusicDating]

It's such a priveleged first world view isn't it? They're talking about the UK that has fully vaccinated nearly 70% of its adult population. No word at all about the likelihood of epidemic and prospect of variants in the unprotected global South.

The idea that all restrictions being dropped = immediate return to pre Covid is obvious nonsense. Changes like working from home are now, standard practice. Many people will still wear masks. Many people will moderate their behaviour without the threat of criminal sanctions. Businesses are still set to be maintaining other measures. Criminalising everyday behaviour is not the only way to try and manage a pandemic. Despite 17 months of it we've still had new variants and growing cases.

The UK has vaccinated most people who represented most serious illness and death, I'm unsure what else can be done at this point.



I'm fairly sure that last year that was discussed as being the only way to achieve HI, what is the alternative?

Delta is taking hold in Europe, I would suggest it is quite likely that other European countries will open up when they get to similar vaccination levels despite rising cases as well.

This is the bit I struggle with, I don't understand the theory why a country with 65m people, the majority vaccinated, would apparently be more likely to be a variant creating hotbed compared to somewhere like India?

 

[skybluetony176]

Been open to anyone over 12 since 3rd June; over 40s still have priority for appointments though.

So when you talk about percentages then you’re also talking about a bigger percentage of the overall population than we are in the U.K. as we’re not yet vaccinating under 18’s. A point a lot of people keep missing in the U.K. when they talk about us being ahead. What’s vaccine take up like in the under 18’s there? Is there much scepticism from parents?

In the U.K. they keep talking about the risk to children from the vaccine vs the risk from the virus and that is the deciding factor rather than the risk to the wider population.

 

[skybluetony176]

This is the bit I struggle with, I don't understand the theory why a country with 65m people, the majority vaccinated, would apparently be more likely to be a variant creating hotbed compared to somewhere like India?

It’s not the majority, it’s the majority of over over 18’s. Almost half our population either hasn’t had two jabs so not fully vaccinated or not had a jab at all. We’re not really anywhere near herd immunity as a country. We’re more vulnerable than a lot of people are playing us out to be.

 

[Evo1883]

With India (delta varient)

They had a month and a half where it went rampant (without hardly any jabs )

Now they are at 41000 a day(miniscule based on population ) with 23% 1st vaccine received

We are at 50k with a much much higher percentage even double jabbed ..

Ah fuck it makes no sense to me ..

Their country has much more densely populated areas too

 

[Sick Boy]

So when you talk about percentages then you’re also talking about a bigger percentage of the overall population than we are in the U.K. as we’re not yet vaccinating under 18’s. A point a lot of people keep missing in the U.K. when they talk about us being ahead. What’s vaccine take up like in the under 18’s there? Is there much scepticism from parents?

In the U.K. they keep talking about the risk to children from the vaccine vs the risk from the virus and that is the deciding factor rather than the risk to the wider population.

There is more scepticism in those who are 40 plus from what I understand. No idea about those under 18 - there is a priority system in place depending on - I booked the same day as GF’s brother and he got his appointment 4 weeks after me in the same region.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

This is the bit I struggle with, I don't understand the theory why a country with 65m people, the majority vaccinated, would apparently be more likely to be a variant creating hotbed compared to somewhere like India?

Ah well that’s where you need to check how these things mutate best. It’s in developed counties that are able to keep people alive with chronic health issues. I’ll try and find some reading

 

[skybluetony176]

With India (delta varient)

They had a month and a half where it went rampant (without hardly any jabs )

Now they are at 41000 a day(miniscule based on population ) with 23% 1st vaccine received

We are at 50k with a much much higher percentage even double jabbed ..

Ah fuck it makes no sense to me ..

Their country has much more densely populated areas too

Herd immunity is expected to be somewhere between 70-76% of the country, under 18’s make up 21% of U.K. population so unless we start vaccinating them it needs pretty much 100% of the adult population to be fully vaccinated before we can achieve herd immunity, we’re at about 52% I believe. I think people are being lulled (possibly deliberately) into thinking we’re (as a country) in a much safer position than we actually are.

#fullyexpectingfptotearmyfiguresapartandifhedoeslistentohimnotmeasheiswaysmarterthanmeonthis

 

[CCFCSteve]

It’s not the majority, it’s the majority of over over 18’s. Almost half our population either hasn’t had two jabs so not fully vaccinated or not had a jab at all. We’re not really anywhere near herd immunity as a country. We’re more vulnerable than a lot of people are playing us out to be.

Pretty much everybody who is higher risk (over 40, I’m guessing even over 30s) could/should have been double jabbed by now.

Basically you’re saying ignore Whitty, Ferguson, Vallance, all of whom have suggested that the nhs is likely to be overrun this autumn/winter if we try to suppress the spread now. Or let’s just vaccinate kids, who from what we know are at a lower risk from covid than the jab ?! Until the scientists say otherwise, I’d personally rather get covid after being jabbed (if I’ve not had it already) than force a child to have a vaccine for something they are unlikely to ill from, yet could have an adverse reaction to. The only reason other countries are doing this is due to adult vaccine reticence.

ps there is no magic billet, I don’t know the answer, nor do the scientist with any certainty. All we can do is take calculated decisions

 

[skybluetony176]

There is more scepticism in those who are 40 plus from what I understand. No idea about those under 18 - there is a priority system in place depending on - I booked the same day as GF’s brother and he got his appointment 4 weeks after me in the same region.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out in Italy with under 18’s and scepticism amongst parents vs take up in that age group. Me and the Mrs have been discussing it a lot over the last couple of days. We have a 14 year old and a 12 year old. I think vaccines are approved in the U.K. for 16 & 17 year olds but not under 16’s at the moment. The talk in the U.K. seems to be based on the risk of the vaccine vs the virus in children, there seems to be no discussion on the risk of the vaccine vs the risk to the wider population if we don’t vaccinate under 18’s. Did they have that debate in Italy at all?

 

[skybluetony176]

Pretty much everybody who is higher risk (over 40, I’m guessing even over 30s) could/should have been double jabbed by now.

Basically you’re saying ignore Whitty, Ferguson, Vallance, all of whom have suggested that the nhs is likely to be overrun this autumn/winter if we try to suppress the spread now. Or let’s just vaccinate kids, who from what we know are at a lower risk from covid than the jab ?! Until the scientists say otherwise, I’d personally rather get covid after being jabbed (if I’ve not had it already) than force a child to have a vaccine for something they are unlikely to ill from, yet could have an adverse reaction to. The only reason other countries are doing this is due to adult vaccine reticence.

If it rages in winter it won’t be anything to do with the current strain. We’ll be on the next strain by then. You’re putting this on Sage, it’s Boris’ plan and if Sage are really saying that they seem to be Mavericks compared to the rest of the worlds scientific community who are widely condemning what we’re doing in this country.

 

[Sick Boy]

It will be interesting to see how it pans out in Italy with under 18’s and scepticism amongst parents vs take up in that age group. Me and the Mrs have been discussing it a lot over the last couple of days. We have a 14 year old and a 12 year old. I think vaccines are approved in the U.K. for 16 & 17 year olds but not under 16’s at the moment. The talk in the U.K. seems to be based on the risk of the vaccine vs the virus in children, there seems to be no discussion on the risk of the vaccine vs the risk to the wider population if we don’t vaccinate under 18’s. Did they have that debate in Italy at all?

The concern has been focused on the wider population rather than the risks of the vaccine but they seem to have more vaccines in general for children compared to the UK.
The government doesn’t tend to test which policies could be popular though by leaking them to the media in advance though.

 

[Sick Boy]

Pretty much everybody who is higher risk (over 40, I’m guessing even over 30s) could/should have been double jabbed by now.

Basically you’re saying ignore Whitty, Ferguson, Vallance, all of whom have suggested that the nhs is likely to be overrun this autumn/winter if we try to suppress the spread now. Or let’s just vaccinate kids, who from what we know are at a lower risk from covid than the jab ?! Until the scientists say otherwise, I’d personally rather get covid after being jabbed (if I’ve not had it already) than force a child to have a vaccine for something they are unlikely to ill from, yet could have an adverse reaction to. The only reason other countries are doing this is due to adult vaccine reticence.

ps there is no magic billet, I don’t know the answer, nor do the scientist with any certainty. All we can do is take calculated decisions

Hasn’t Whitty said that restrictions may need to be reimposed within as little as 5 weeks?

 

[CCFCSteve]

If it rages in winter it won’t be anything to do with the current strain. We’ll be on the next strain by then. You’re putting this on Sage, it’s Boris’ plan and if Sage are really saying that they seem to be Mavericks compared to the rest of the worlds scientific community who are widely condemning what we’re doing in this country.

That’s nonsense Tony. Have a listen to Whitty again, Google ‘vallance flu deaths’, Ferguson ‘justifiable decision’. Every country needs to make their own call depending on their vaccine roll out, risks their health service in coming months etc etc.

Im not saying it’s the right call, none of us know for sure but I genuinely think decisions are being made in the country’s best interests at heart. Only time will tell

 

[CCFCSteve]

Hasn’t Whitty said that restrictions may need to be reimposed within as little as 5 weeks?

Yes, if the modelling is worst case and hospitals start to get overrun. The models also suggested there was no benefit in delaying releasing restrictions and in fact by delaying could lead to more deaths

It’s a calculated gamble. I wouldn’t be surprised to see some restrictions (hopefully not as drastic as lockdown !) reimposed late summer

 

[Sick Boy]

Yes, if the modelling is worst case and hospitals start to get overrun. The models also suggested there was no benefit in delaying releasing restrictions and in fact by delaying could lead to more deaths

It’s a calculated gamble

It sounds like this guy has the best interests of the wider population at the forefront of his mind New U.K. Health Chief Vows ‘No Going Back’ Into Lockdown

 

[CCFCSteve]

The concern has been focused on the wider population rather than the risks of the vaccine but they seem to have more vaccines in general for children compared to the UK.
The government doesn’t tend to test which policies could be popular though by leaking them to the media in advance though.

Maybe they have scientific evidence to suggest jabbing kids is of greater benefit/less risky to them than getting covid. I doubt it though. Forget testing policies in media, it looks like they’re gambling on kids lives due to adult vaccine reticence

It sounds like this guy has the best interests of the wider population at the forefront of his mind New U.K. Health Chief Vows ‘No Going Back’ Into Lockdown

He backtracked a week later…wisely. Never understand bullish statements when dealing with a virus we still have incomplete knowledge of/control over

 

[hill83]

Me and the missus have loads of kits here at home , loads from my work and school and we thought we'd try diet Pepsi to see if we would get a positive result.. result = positive

View attachment 20999

 

[Sick Boy]

Maybe they have scientific evidence to suggest jabbing kids is of greater benefit/less risky to them than getting covid. I doubt it though. Forget testing policies in media, it looks like they’re gambling on kids lives due to adult vHe backtracked a week later…wisely. Never understand bullish statements when dealing with a virus we still have incomplete knowledge of/control over

Maybe they have scientific evidence to suggest jabbing kids is of greater benefit/less risky to them than getting covid. I doubt it though. Forget testing policies in media, it looks like they’re gambling on kids lives due to adult vaccine reticence

It’s fully approved my EMA…
And by the UK regulator UK approves Pfizer jab for 12 to 15-year-olds - not sure they’d have approved it if there was a real risk of death.
What evidence do you have that there is a risk of death to 12-15 year olds from the Pfizer?

 

[Grendel]

It’s fully approved my EMA…
What evidence do you have that there is a risk of death to 12-15 year olds from the Pfizer?

The Eu changed policy about 3 times on the Oxford jab - the vaccination of younger people unless there is a follow up booster strategy seems odd until every vulnerable group has been vaccinated

 

[Deleted member 5849]

there is no magic billet

The army will be disappointed.

 

[baldy]

Chris Whitty,that bundle of joy who‘s not even been elected by anybody,coming out & saying England to be locked down again potentially in 5 weeks - why? Death rates are flatlined…wouldn’t surprise me at all if Boris u-turns before Monday….

 

[Sick Boy]

The Eu changed policy about 3 times on the Oxford jab - the vaccination of younger people unless there is a follow up booster strategy seems odd until every vulnerable group has been vaccinated

No offence but I think they’re probably more experienced than you.

 

[Grendel]

No offence but I think they’re probably more experienced than you.

Mmmmm they said no vaccines for over 60 did a u turn, it’s quasi effective which made an already sceptical continent worse and did a I turn, engaged in vaccine wars with suppliers and did a turn and no offence but the what Steve is saying is the vaccine risk statistically is more than having long term Covid effects - no one even denies that

 

[CCFCSteve]

It’s fully approved my EMA…
And by the UK regulator UK approves Pfizer jab for 12 to 15-year-olds - not sure they’d have approved it if there was a real risk of death.
What evidence do you have that there is a risk of death to 12-15 year olds from the Pfizer?

Yeah, not saying death but to date all I’ve seen is the risk of the impact of covid for kids is less than the risk of kids having the vaccine. Might change but I think that’s the current view here