Do you want to discuss boring politics? (120 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

Normal rules do not apply..

Cop26 president Alok Sharma flew to 30 countries in 7 months

Minister responsible for climate conference travelled mainly during winter and spring and did not isolate

www.theguardian.com

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In the interest of balance it was the Daily Mail of all papers that broke the story.

Climate minister Alok Sharma jetted to 30 nations in last seven months

Climate Tsar Alok Sharma has travelled tens of thousands of miles across the globe over the past seven months to prepare the ground for the COP26 global environment summit this autumn.

www.google.co.uk

 

---

[Deleted member 4439]

In the interest of balance it was the Daily Mail of all papers that broke the story.

Climate minister Alok Sharma jetted to 30 nations in last seven months

Climate Tsar Alok Sharma has travelled tens of thousands of miles across the globe over the past seven months to prepare the ground for the COP26 global environment summit this autumn.

www.google.co.uk

Just a distraction from the real issues, which is consumption, be it of meat, plastics and electronics. Unless you are taking a personal responsibility for what you do yourself then moral outrage at this sort of thing is hypocrisy - and Tony, I'm not having a go at you, it's just a general statement aimed at us all.

 

[skybluetony176]

Just a distraction from the real issues, which is consumption, be it of meat, plastics and electronics. Unless you are taking a personal responsibility for what you do yourself then moral outrage at this sort of thing is hypocrisy - and Tony, I'm not having a go at you, it's just a general statement aimed at us all.

You’re right regarding personal responsibility and on a personal note I’ve taken responsibility for that. Turned veggie/very nearly vegan, we’re now a one car house, cut back loads on air travel even before Covid, try to purchase responsibly in terms of materials, air miles etc. Any gain basically regardless of how small.

Non of that excludes the need for leading from the front though. Whether you’re taking personal responsibility or not. They’ll be no shortage of people using a story like this as an excuse to not take personal responsibility.

 

[shmmeee]

Just a distraction from the real issues, which is consumption, be it of meat, plastics and electronics. Unless you are taking a personal responsibility for what you do yourself then moral outrage at this sort of thing is hypocrisy - and Tony, I'm not having a go at you, it's just a general statement aimed at us all.

We didn’t stop the hole in the ozone layer by asking people nicely to buy better fridges. Sometimes the invisible hand is asleep at the wheel.

 

[stupot07]

Plus for me that story is as much about different covid travels rules for Sharma from the rest of us. No quarantining, etc. As it is about the hypocrisy of all the air miles he has done under the guise of climate change.

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[CCFCSteve]

We didn’t stop the hole in the ozone layer by asking people nicely to buy better fridges. Sometimes the invisible hand is asleep at the wheel.

The only way the government can really affect things is either by carrot or stick....mainly stick and that unfortunately usually impacts the poorest in society. There’s some big decisions to be made, one relates to nuclear energy, not the ideal but eco activists have got to accept in the short/medium term it appears the least worst option so has to be considered. I’m still also wondering what the fall out will be from the push to electric vehicles. Ultimately we need reduce car usage full stop.

I agree with Dubed. In the west we’ve become a throw away society, consumption and waste is disgraceful but I do think mindsets are changing and improving...I just hope it’s quick enough for future generations.

The east/developing nations is the tough one. It’s almost unfair to stop them developing through cheap power/energy but if they continue with new coal power stations etc, what we do pales into insignificance to some extent. Not to say we shouldn’t try to do everything possible but I don’t think it will have enough of an affect

 

[CCFCSteve]

Plus for me that story is as much about different covid travels rules for Sharma from the rest of us. No quarantining, etc. As it is about the hypocrisy of all the air miles he has done under the guise of climate change.

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Agreed. It sounds like genuine government business but you still follow the rules on return.

 

[shmmeee]

The only way the government can really affect things is either by carrot or stick....mainly stick and that unfortunately usually impacts the poorest in society. There’s some big decisions to be made, one relates to nuclear energy, not the ideal but eco activists have got to accept in the short/medium term it appears the least worst option so has to be considered. I’m still also wondering what the fall out will be from the push to electric vehicles. Ultimately we need reduce car usage full stop.

I agree with Dubed. In the west we’ve become a throw away society, consumption and waste is disgraceful but I do think mindsets are changing and improving...I just hope it’s quick enough for future generations.

The east/developing nations is the tough one. It’s almost unfair to stop them developing through cheap power/energy but if they continue with new coal power stations etc, what we do pales into insignificance to some extent. Not to say we shouldn’t try to do everything possible but I don’t think it will have enough of an affect

Well it’s a policy choice to allow it to hit the poorest hardest. But what’s never mentioned here is the cost of inaction. We’ve wasted decades with this sort of argument already and the cost of action now is many multiples of what it would’ve been in the 90s.

This is the sort of thing govenrment borrowing is made for TBH. Mostly one off infrastructure costs.

We could’ve insulated millions of homes and brought in standards to bring new homes up to scratch. We could’ve gone nuclear or wind in the time we’ve had. None of that had to cost the poorest a penny and if anything would reduce their bills. I’ve got mates on the breadline with uninsulated homes that they have to choose which rooms to heat over the winter. So I find the idea that making their home warmer would hurt them a little rich TBQH.

This isn’t going away, the cost argument is blown apart when you look at the costs that will come and are already coming. It’s just ideology putting off the inevitable.

As for China and India, we’ll this is where being a first world nation with a big economy comes into play and leading by example. Pre Brexit soft power and diplomacy were one of our strengths.

I’ll be blunt I’m getting a little tired of the same nonsense arguments being wheeled out to defend inaction. We know what to do, just crack on with it. This government is waffling about dishwashers while they effectively banned on shore wind for years and decimated funding for heating and insulation initiatives.

The idea that all we have to do is change the entire economy and human nature is one put about to delay action even more. I have no time for it.

Inknow you have an ideological reason to think the state can’t do anything. But it’s nonsense and this is far more important that petty political ideologies.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Well it’s a policy choice to allow it to hit the poorest hardest. But what’s never mentioned here is the cost of inaction. We’ve wasted decades with this sort of argument already and the cost of action now is many multiples of what it would’ve been in the 90s.

This is the sort of thing govenrment borrowing is made for TBH. Mostly one off infrastructure costs.

We could’ve insulated millions of homes and brought in standards to bring new homes up to scratch. We could’ve gone nuclear or wind in the time we’ve had. None of that had to cost the poorest a penny and if anything would reduce their bills. I’ve got mates on the breadline with uninsulated homes that they have to choose which rooms to heat over the winter. So I find the idea that making their home warmer would hurt them a little rich TBQH.

This isn’t going away, the cost argument is blown apart when you look at the costs that will come and are already coming. It’s just ideology putting off the inevitable.

As for China and India, we’ll this is where being a first world nation with a big economy comes into play and leading by example. Pre Brexit soft power and diplomacy were one of our strengths.

I’ll be blunt I’m getting a little tired of the same nonsense arguments being wheeled out to defend inaction. We know what to do, just crack on with it. This government is waffling about dishwashers while they effectively banned on shore wind for years and decimated funding for heating and insulation initiatives.

The idea that all we have to do is change the entire economy and human nature is one put about to delay action even more. I have no time for it.

Inknow you have an ideological reason to think the state can’t do anything. But it’s nonsense and this is far more important that petty political ideologies.

Not sure how you read that I’ve got ideological reasons why the state can’t do anything when I’ve said that we should do as much as possible ?! I’d hope we can and will lead the way on the global scene but I am also realistic to know that unless there is significant changes elsewhere in the world it will unfortunately make minimal difference (Brexit is irrelevant, we still have soft power influence and can lead by example but nicely shoehorned in )

I’ve also said the individual needs to do as much as possible (what they can afford to do). Our ‘ideologies’ probably aren’t that different, I just probably lean a bit more towards people and businesses taking more personal responsibility than rely on the government to tell me/us what to do. I barely drive now, I pay a premium to offset all my energy usage and I eat a fraction of the meat I use to, however, I also appreciate many aren’t in the same personal or financial position to do some or all of these

Ps I agree on and offshore wind farms should 100% be encouraged. There has been plenty of heating and insulation initiatives over the years though.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Not sure how you read that I’ve got ideological reasons why the state can’t do anything when I’ve said that we should do as much as possible ?! I’d hope we can and will lead the way on the global scene but I am also realistic to know that unless there is significant changes elsewhere in the world it will unfortunately make minimal difference (Brexit is irrelevant, we still have soft power influence and can lead by example but nicely shoehorned in )

I’ve also said the individual needs to do as much as possible (what they can afford to do). Our ‘ideologies’ probably aren’t that different, I just probably lean a bit more towards people and businesses taking more personal responsibility than rely on the government to tell me/us what to do. I barely drive now, I pay a premium to offset all my energy usage and I eat a fraction of the meat I use to, however, I also appreciate many aren’t in the same personal or financial position to do some or all of these

Ps I agree on and offshore wind farms should 100% be encouraged. There has been plenty of heating and insulation initiatives over the years though.

I see your point, but you do say "do as much as possible". The problem is that there is a massive disparity in what people consider is 'as much as possible'. Unfortunately there are plenty of those in power who think that's far less than others do. Sometimes not even because they can't do it but they don't see at their responsibility to do it. In other cases they've actively obstructed doing as much as possible to appease those big businesses/countries heavily invested in things like gas. We've had years of "solar/wind is inefficient" when it's far more efficient that the early days of coal and gas. It gets more efficient with research. That means investment, Instead we've shoved money into fossil fuels because they're more efficient despite any sensible long-term plan would tell you it's a false economy.

An individual can't choose to power their house/car with renewable resources if the industry doesn't generate power using those methods. If things like insulation or solar panels are expensive an individual maybe can't afford them without some form of grant even if they want to have them. Long term that will save money.

But instead we've had years of objections to wind power because they're eyesores, Industries like that and solar have had funding removed whereas things like gas/fracking have been invested in. As has been mentioned grants for insulation and soar panels have been removed.

We're not alone (or nowhere near the worst compared to places like the US/Russia/China)

We're not doing all we can because we make decisions based on the politics, not what needs to be done.

 

[wingy]

Just happened on to this .
Bit of history.

 

[clint van damme]

Just happened on to this .
Bit of history.

I love that band. Got a new album out

 

[wingy]

I love that band. Got a new album out

Yeah will be checking them out myself.

 

[Evo1883]

Taliban sweeping through Afghanistan... who could have predicted this

 

[shmmeee]

Taliban sweeping through Afghanistan... who could have predicted this

Poor fuckers. Just been abandoned

 

[Evo1883]

Poor fuckers. Just been abandoned

Pakistan need dealing with too , sorry I'm not a war monger but the taliban problem is made a million times worse because of Pakistani influence , sanction them

And I agree , left them up shit Creek without a paddle

 

[shmmeee]

Pakistan need dealing with too , sorry I'm not a war monger but the taliban problem is made a million times worse because of Pakistani influence , sanction them

And I agree , left them up shit Creek without a paddle

Youve got to hope China can swing their dick at Pakistan, surely they don’t want terrorists on the border.

But yeah we should be telling them to shape up or fuck off as well.

 

[Ian1779]

This is not good at all.

Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

 

[Grendel]

This is not good at all.

Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

You could phase out meat eating in a reasonable timescale and that would have a big impact and anyone caring for the environment could refuse to eat it

Eating Less Meat Essential to Curb Climate Change, Says Report - Our World

The livestock industry emits more GHG emissions than transport but fear of consumer backlash is preventing action on meat eating, says a Chatham House report.

ourworld.unu.edu

 

[shmmeee]

You could phase out meat eating in a reasonable timescale and that would have a big impact and anyone caring for the environment could refuse to eat it

Eating Less Meat Essential to Curb Climate Change, Says Report - Our World

The livestock industry emits more GHG emissions than transport but fear of consumer backlash is preventing action on meat eating, says a Chatham House report.

ourworld.unu.edu

Typical hands off delaying tactic.

By far the biggest emissions in the U.K. in 2019 (not as you’ve posted projections for the whole world in 2014) are transport, energy, business and residential in that order. Agriculture is fifth largest at 10% of emissions and only half of that is methane emissions from cattle.

This isn’t a debate. We know what to do: decarbonise transport, which requires infrastructure investment and subsidies (govt action), decarbonise energy (govt action), reduce heating needs in business and residential properties (needs subsidies - govt action), decarbonise industry (also give regulations and subsidies).

Meat eating, recycling and rinsing plates before dishwashing is the new climate denial. Government just needs to pull their finger out their arse and do what they’ve been avoiding for decades.

 

[COV]

Typical hands off delaying tactic.

By far the biggest emissions in the U.K. in 2019 (not as you’ve posted projections for the whole world in 2014) are transport, energy, business and residential in that order. Agriculture is fifth largest at 10% of emissions and only half of that is methane emissions from cattle.

This isn’t a debate. We know what to do: decarbonise transport, which requires infrastructure investment and subsidies (govt action), decarbonise energy (govt action), reduce heating needs in business and residential properties (needs subsidies - govt action), decarbonise industry (also give regulations and subsidies).

Meat eating, recycling and rinsing plates before dishwashing is the new climate denial. Government just needs to pull their finger out their arse and do what they’ve been avoiding for decades.

Deporting 50 people who actually grew up here- instant action. Climate change- every excuse under the sun is trotted out.

 

[Grendel]

Typical hands off delaying tactic.

By far the biggest emissions in the U.K. in 2019 (not as you’ve posted projections for the whole world in 2014) are transport, energy, business and residential in that order. Agriculture is fifth largest at 10% of emissions and only half of that is methane emissions from cattle.

This isn’t a debate. We know what to do: decarbonise transport, which requires infrastructure investment and subsidies (govt action), decarbonise energy (govt action), reduce heating needs in business and residential properties (needs subsidies - govt action), decarbonise industry (also give regulations and subsidies).

Meat eating, recycling and rinsing plates before dishwashing is the new climate denial. Government just needs to pull their finger out their arse and do what they’ve been avoiding for decades.

I knew you'd bite on this you always do. Actually it is a debate - you don't decide the debate

Is eating meat bad for the environment? | FutureLearn

We take a look at how global meat production is bad for the environment. Find out why we eat meat and how it impacts the planet.

www.futurelearn.com

 

[COV]

I knew you'd bite on this you always do. Actually it is a debate - you don't decide the debate

Is eating meat bad for the environment? | FutureLearn

We take a look at how global meat production is bad for the environment. Find out why we eat meat and how it impacts the planet.

www.futurelearn.com

is it really ‘biting’ when it’s an important issue that many people are passionate about? Perhaps ‘replying’ would be more accurate

 

[shmmeee]

I knew you'd bite on this you always do. Actually it is a debate - you don't decide the debate

Is eating meat bad for the environment? | FutureLearn

We take a look at how global meat production is bad for the environment. Find out why we eat meat and how it impacts the planet.

www.futurelearn.com

It’s not a debate. We’ve had thirty years of debate that’s gone like this:

“decarbonise”

“no it’s not real”

“decarbonise”

“no it’s not humans”

“decarbonise”

“no it’s expensive”

“decarbonise”

“no it’s the Chinese”

“decarbonise”

“no we need to change all of human nature and the entire food economy instead”

Bored now of the silly games. The anti change people like yourself have lost the right to participate in the debate because you have been being twats for a generation. Time to sit down and let the rest of us crack on.

 

[shmmeee]

is it really ‘biting’ when it’s an important issue that many people are passionate about? Perhaps ‘replying’ would be more accurate

Everything’s a joke to Grendel because if he took something seriously he’d get hurt when he’s inevitably proven wrong.

 

[COV]

It’s not a debate. We’ve had thirty years of debate that’s gone like this:

“decarbonise”

“no it’s not real”

“decarbonise”

“no it’s not humans”

“decarbonise”

“no it’s expensive”

“decarbonise”

“no it’s the Chinese”

“decarbonise”

“no we need to change all of human nature and the entire food economy instead”

Bored now of the silly games. The anti change people like yourself have lost the right to participate in the debate because you have been being twats for a generation. Time to sit down and let the rest of us crack on.

if there was a ‘round of applause’ emoji I’d use that here

 

[Grendel]

is it really ‘biting’ when it’s an important issue that many people are passionate about? Perhaps ‘replying’ would be more accurate

No he said "it isn't a debate" - I am amazed his mega brain has enough time on his hands really to grace us with his presence on here -- he must have a top job in a major Global organisation - after all he knows more than every expert on the subject

Eat less meat: UN climate-change report calls for change to human diet

The report on global land use and agriculture comes amid accelerating deforestation in the Amazon.

www.nature.com

 

[Grendel]

Everything’s a joke to Grendel because if he took something seriously he’d get hurt when he’s inevitably proven wrong.

So the scientific experts are wrong and a bloke with a below average lifestyle knows more - OK

 

[Grendel]

if there was a ‘round of applause’ emoji I’d use that here

His argument is to buy an electric car - but he can't afford to

 

[COV]

No he said "it isn't a debate" - I am amazed his mega brain has enough time on his hands really to grace us with his presence on here -- he must have a top job in a major Global organisation - after all he knows more than every expert on the subject

Eat less meat: UN climate-change report calls for change to human diet

The report on global land use and agriculture comes amid accelerating deforestation in the Amazon.

www.nature.com

your use of heavy sarcasm, sneering and trying to look down at people who don’t agree with you on this doesn’t exactly help drive the debate forward though does it. I’m no scientist but if you’re genuinely trying to say that climate change is not a serious issue then I don’t know what to say really.

 

[Grendel]

your use of heavy sarcasm, sneering and trying to look down at people who don’t agree with you on this doesn’t exactly help drive the debate forward though does it. I’m no scientist but if you’re genuinely trying to say that climate change is not a serious issue then I don’t know what to say really.

Ironic as you are backing someone who says meat eating and deforestation consequences are not an issue we need to talk about - well it seems he controls the debate so refuses to

 

[COV]

Ironic as you are backing someone who says meat eating and deforestation consequences are not an issue we need to talk about - well it seems he controls the debate so refuses to

I’m actually just saying that climate change is real, and your approach in setting out to belittle & mock people with a different view to you is weird. But I guess it’s a football forum ultimately so who cares.

 

[clint van damme]

Typical hands off delaying tactic.

By far the biggest emissions in the U.K. in 2019 (not as you’ve posted projections for the whole world in 2014) are transport, energy, business and residential in that order. Agriculture is fifth largest at 10% of emissions and only half of that is methane emissions from cattle.

This isn’t a debate. We know what to do: decarbonise transport, which requires infrastructure investment and subsidies (govt action), decarbonise energy (govt action), reduce heating needs in business and residential properties (needs subsidies - govt action), decarbonise industry (also give regulations and subsidies).

Meat eating, recycling and rinsing plates before dishwashing is the new climate denial. Government just needs to pull their finger out their arse and do what they’ve been avoiding for decades.

Just been a report on 5live and they had some professor on and he was basically saying decarbonisation and electric vehicles weren't the way.
He suggested carbon recycling and synthetic fuels.
His line went though but before he could elaborate too much was quite interesting 5hough but let's be honest, we won't do anything meaningful.

 

[Grendel]

I’m actually just saying that climate change is real, and your approach in setting out to belittle & mock people with a different view to you is weird. But I guess it’s a football forum ultimately so who cares.

I have I said it isn’t and how is showing a link to a real issue and something everyone individually can do - reduce or stop meat consumption - not a real point for discussion

It’s him who spits and snarls when this debate enters this area of discussion

you don’t eat meat do you?

 

[shmmeee]

Just been a report on 5live and they had some professor on and he was basically saying decarbonisation and electric vehicles weren't the way.
He suggested carbon recycling and synthetic fuels.
His line went though but before he could elaborate too much was quite interesting 5hough but let's be honest, we won't do anything meaningful.

Ill stick with the IPCC and the vast majority of climate scientists if that’s OK. We won’t do fuck all though you’re right. And mostly because the decision making infrastructure for first world countries has been broken for years.