Do you want to discuss boring politics? (13 Viewers)

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Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Funny thing about that is it’s the second *amendment* which suggests it can be changed.

All tradition is like this. It’s like the Mormons who are fine with technology up until about 1700 then it’s all forbidden.
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We've got stuff like the National Trust though.

Take on all these old stately homes that were designed to be at the height of modernity and were regularly remodelled at huge expense to be at the forefront of design, technology and culture and now they just frozen at a certain time in the past. Totally missing the point of what the owners would have wanted them to be. Half the time the families had to sell them because they spent so much money on them 'keeping up with the Jones''

It'd be like saying my house can't have double glazing cos it didn't exist when the house was built.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Johnson talking about how Thatcher gave Britain a head start on climate change by closing the coalmines :rolleyes:

I mean, could the guy be any more detached from the average person*

It's not like that was the reason she did it. She did it out of a personal vendetta against the unions and Scargill.

She destroyed the economy of entire areas with no intention of trying to replace their lost industry.

But to him it's all just a bit of a joke.:mad:



*Just remembered Jacob Rees-Mogg exists
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Johnson talking about how Thatcher gave Britain a head start on climate change by closing the coalmines :rolleyes:

I mean, could the guy be any more detached from the average person*

It's not like that was the reason she did it. She did it out of a personal vendetta against the unions and Scargill.

She destroyed the economy of entire areas with no intention of trying to replace their lost industry.

But to him it's all just a bit of a joke.:mad:



*Just remembered Jacob Rees-Mogg exists
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The destruction of the Marxist Scargill - who cares not a jot about anyone but himself and his pretend war on the establishment was the reason I voted Tory for the first time
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
The destruction of the Marxist Scargill - who cares not a jot about anyone but himself and his pretend war on the establishment was the reason I voted Tory for the first time
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Not arguing about Scargill. But that's not the point of what I put was it.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Johnson talking about how Thatcher gave Britain a head start on climate change by closing the coalmines :rolleyes:

I mean, could the guy be any more detached from the average person*

It's not like that was the reason she did it. She did it out of a personal vendetta against the unions and Scargill.

She destroyed the economy of entire areas with no intention of trying to replace their lost industry.

But to him it's all just a bit of a joke.:mad:



*Just remembered Jacob Rees-Mogg exists
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We were still building coal fired power stations at the beginning of the 80’s and still have 3 or 4 still open so that doesn’t add up.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
The destruction of the Marxist Scargill - who cares not a jot about anyone but himself and his pretend war on the establishment was the reason I voted Tory for the first time
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Well it’s just to complete the circle of farce that communities Thatcher ruined will vote for Johnson even after he jokes about their demise. Missing the part where it shows he gets the average man more though
 
D

Deleted member 4439

Guest
Grendel said:
The destruction of the Marxist Scargill - who cares not a jot about anyone but himself and his pretend war on the establishment was the reason I voted Tory for the first time
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It's been well documented, not least by the Economist magazine, that Scargill rose to power in defence of the attack on unionism that had been in the planning by the Tory right for several years. Scargill told the miners, including the Notts miners. that the pits would close if Thatcher got her way (and she employed the law and the forces of the law to do so), and of course he was right. Scargill was not the protagonist.

It's quite beyond me how any working class person could have voted for Thatcher, whatever view might have been held on the power of the unions. Frankly, I'd dance on her grave, the fascist, racist bastard. Ding dong.
 
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Skybluefaz

Skybluefaz

Well-Known Member
dubed said:
It's been well documented, not least by the Economist magazine, that Scargill rose to power in defence of the attack on unionism that had been in planning by the Tory right from several ears earlier. Scargill told the miners, including the Notts miners. that the pits would close if Thatcher got her way (and employed the law and the forces of the law to do so), and of course he right. Scargill was not the protagonist.

It's quite beyond me how any working class person could have voted for Thatcher, whatever view might have been held on the power of the unions. Frankly, I'd dance on her grave, the fascist, racist bastard. Ding dong.
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But tell us how you really feel about her.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
dubed said:
Yes, it's a nonsense - we simply switched to imported coal, and massively so until we began switching away from coal fire plants about 10 years ago
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We didn’t even build our first wind farm until the 90’s, even then it was a private venture. All Boris has really done is confirm that he’s glad that Maggie took a huge dump on the red wall.
 
N

Northants Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
I'd love to say that he's finished and stuff like this is just scorched-earth nonsense but some if it's calculated gaslighting.
It wont work forever so when are the Tory kingmakers gonna decide to get shot?
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Yeah, he didn't mention that we imported to coal to burn instead.
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Quite often lower quality coal too which is dirtier and less efficient so you have to burn more than the bituminous coal mined in the U.K.. And that’s before you start to consider the carbon footprint of importing it in the first place. Most British coal imports come from Russia and America.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
stupot07 said:
Normal rules do not apply..

www.theguardian.com

Cop26 president Alok Sharma flew to 30 countries in 7 months

Minister responsible for climate conference travelled mainly during winter and spring and did not isolate
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
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In the interest of balance it was the Daily Mail of all papers that broke the story.
www.google.co.uk

Climate minister Alok Sharma jetted to 30 nations in last seven months

Climate Tsar Alok Sharma has travelled tens of thousands of miles across the globe over the past seven months to prepare the ground for the COP26 global environment summit this autumn.
www.google.co.uk www.google.co.uk
 
D

Deleted member 4439

Guest
skybluetony176 said:
In the interest of balance it was the Daily Mail of all papers that broke the story.
www.google.co.uk

Climate minister Alok Sharma jetted to 30 nations in last seven months

Climate Tsar Alok Sharma has travelled tens of thousands of miles across the globe over the past seven months to prepare the ground for the COP26 global environment summit this autumn.
www.google.co.uk www.google.co.uk
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Just a distraction from the real issues, which is consumption, be it of meat, plastics and electronics. Unless you are taking a personal responsibility for what you do yourself then moral outrage at this sort of thing is hypocrisy - and Tony, I'm not having a go at you, it's just a general statement aimed at us all.
 
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skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
dubed said:
Just a distraction from the real issues, which is consumption, be it of meat, plastics and electronics. Unless you are taking a personal responsibility for what you do yourself then moral outrage at this sort of thing is hypocrisy - and Tony, I'm not having a go at you, it's just a general statement aimed at us all.
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You’re right regarding personal responsibility and on a personal note I’ve taken responsibility for that. Turned veggie/very nearly vegan, we’re now a one car house, cut back loads on air travel even before Covid, try to purchase responsibly in terms of materials, air miles etc. Any gain basically regardless of how small.

Non of that excludes the need for leading from the front though. Whether you’re taking personal responsibility or not. They’ll be no shortage of people using a story like this as an excuse to not take personal responsibility.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
dubed said:
Just a distraction from the real issues, which is consumption, be it of meat, plastics and electronics. Unless you are taking a personal responsibility for what you do yourself then moral outrage at this sort of thing is hypocrisy - and Tony, I'm not having a go at you, it's just a general statement aimed at us all.
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We didn’t stop the hole in the ozone layer by asking people nicely to buy better fridges. Sometimes the invisible hand is asleep at the wheel.
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
Plus for me that story is as much about different covid travels rules for Sharma from the rest of us. No quarantining, etc. As it is about the hypocrisy of all the air miles he has done under the guise of climate change.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
We didn’t stop the hole in the ozone layer by asking people nicely to buy better fridges. Sometimes the invisible hand is asleep at the wheel.
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The only way the government can really affect things is either by carrot or stick....mainly stick and that unfortunately usually impacts the poorest in society. There’s some big decisions to be made, one relates to nuclear energy, not the ideal but eco activists have got to accept in the short/medium term it appears the least worst option so has to be considered. I’m still also wondering what the fall out will be from the push to electric vehicles. Ultimately we need reduce car usage full stop.

I agree with Dubed. In the west we’ve become a throw away society, consumption and waste is disgraceful but I do think mindsets are changing and improving...I just hope it’s quick enough for future generations.

The east/developing nations is the tough one. It’s almost unfair to stop them developing through cheap power/energy but if they continue with new coal power stations etc, what we do pales into insignificance to some extent. Not to say we shouldn’t try to do everything possible but I don’t think it will have enough of an affect
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
stupot07 said:
Plus for me that story is as much about different covid travels rules for Sharma from the rest of us. No quarantining, etc. As it is about the hypocrisy of all the air miles he has done under the guise of climate change.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
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Agreed. It sounds like genuine government business but you still follow the rules on return.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
The only way the government can really affect things is either by carrot or stick....mainly stick and that unfortunately usually impacts the poorest in society. There’s some big decisions to be made, one relates to nuclear energy, not the ideal but eco activists have got to accept in the short/medium term it appears the least worst option so has to be considered. I’m still also wondering what the fall out will be from the push to electric vehicles. Ultimately we need reduce car usage full stop.

I agree with Dubed. In the west we’ve become a throw away society, consumption and waste is disgraceful but I do think mindsets are changing and improving...I just hope it’s quick enough for future generations.

The east/developing nations is the tough one. It’s almost unfair to stop them developing through cheap power/energy but if they continue with new coal power stations etc, what we do pales into insignificance to some extent. Not to say we shouldn’t try to do everything possible but I don’t think it will have enough of an affect
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Well it’s a policy choice to allow it to hit the poorest hardest. But what’s never mentioned here is the cost of inaction. We’ve wasted decades with this sort of argument already and the cost of action now is many multiples of what it would’ve been in the 90s.

This is the sort of thing govenrment borrowing is made for TBH. Mostly one off infrastructure costs.

We could’ve insulated millions of homes and brought in standards to bring new homes up to scratch. We could’ve gone nuclear or wind in the time we’ve had. None of that had to cost the poorest a penny and if anything would reduce their bills. I’ve got mates on the breadline with uninsulated homes that they have to choose which rooms to heat over the winter. So I find the idea that making their home warmer would hurt them a little rich TBQH.

This isn’t going away, the cost argument is blown apart when you look at the costs that will come and are already coming. It’s just ideology putting off the inevitable.

As for China and India, we’ll this is where being a first world nation with a big economy comes into play and leading by example. Pre Brexit soft power and diplomacy were one of our strengths.

I’ll be blunt I’m getting a little tired of the same nonsense arguments being wheeled out to defend inaction. We know what to do, just crack on with it. This government is waffling about dishwashers while they effectively banned on shore wind for years and decimated funding for heating and insulation initiatives.

The idea that all we have to do is change the entire economy and human nature is one put about to delay action even more. I have no time for it.

Inknow you have an ideological reason to think the state can’t do anything. But it’s nonsense and this is far more important that petty political ideologies.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Well it’s a policy choice to allow it to hit the poorest hardest. But what’s never mentioned here is the cost of inaction. We’ve wasted decades with this sort of argument already and the cost of action now is many multiples of what it would’ve been in the 90s.

This is the sort of thing govenrment borrowing is made for TBH. Mostly one off infrastructure costs.

We could’ve insulated millions of homes and brought in standards to bring new homes up to scratch. We could’ve gone nuclear or wind in the time we’ve had. None of that had to cost the poorest a penny and if anything would reduce their bills. I’ve got mates on the breadline with uninsulated homes that they have to choose which rooms to heat over the winter. So I find the idea that making their home warmer would hurt them a little rich TBQH.

This isn’t going away, the cost argument is blown apart when you look at the costs that will come and are already coming. It’s just ideology putting off the inevitable.

As for China and India, we’ll this is where being a first world nation with a big economy comes into play and leading by example. Pre Brexit soft power and diplomacy were one of our strengths.

I’ll be blunt I’m getting a little tired of the same nonsense arguments being wheeled out to defend inaction. We know what to do, just crack on with it. This government is waffling about dishwashers while they effectively banned on shore wind for years and decimated funding for heating and insulation initiatives.

The idea that all we have to do is change the entire economy and human nature is one put about to delay action even more. I have no time for it.

Inknow you have an ideological reason to think the state can’t do anything. But it’s nonsense and this is far more important that petty political ideologies.
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Not sure how you read that I’ve got ideological reasons why the state can’t do anything when I’ve said that we should do as much as possible ?! I’d hope we can and will lead the way on the global scene but I am also realistic to know that unless there is significant changes elsewhere in the world it will unfortunately make minimal difference (Brexit is irrelevant, we still have soft power influence and can lead by example but nicely shoehorned in 😂)

I’ve also said the individual needs to do as much as possible (what they can afford to do). Our ‘ideologies’ probably aren’t that different, I just probably lean a bit more towards people and businesses taking more personal responsibility than rely on the government to tell me/us what to do. I barely drive now, I pay a premium to offset all my energy usage and I eat a fraction of the meat I use to, however, I also appreciate many aren’t in the same personal or financial position to do some or all of these

Ps I agree on and offshore wind farms should 100% be encouraged. There has been plenty of heating and insulation initiatives over the years though.
 
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