Do you want to discuss boring politics? (53 Viewers)

[Grendel]

I’m actually just saying that climate change is real, and your approach in setting out to belittle & mock people with a different view to you is weird. But I guess it’s a football forum ultimately so who cares.

also this is something that really triggers him for some reason

Do you want to discuss boring politics?

You and your mum, and your neighbours, and their neighbours can stop eating meat - that's 15% net C02 reduction straightaway. We could all also choose to reduce our consumption of things we want but don't actually need. I suspect that of those that do protest, most still eat meat, consume all...

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

 

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[shmmeee]

also this is something that really triggers him for some reason

Do you want to discuss boring politics?

You and your mum, and your neighbours, and their neighbours can stop eating meat - that's 15% net C02 reduction straightaway. We could all also choose to reduce our consumption of things we want but don't actually need. I suspect that of those that do protest, most still eat meat, consume all...

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

“triggers” “bites”

You’re a fully grown man FFS.

 

[skybluetony176]

There clearly isn’t a single fix all when it comes to tackling climate change. However when it comes to stopping eating meat and indeed dairy there is the double whammy. Aside from all the methane that vows especially turn out there’s also the issue that two of biggest causes of deforestation is to clear land to grow animal feed and to clear land for grazing. So not only are “we” as meat and dairy eaters responsible for a major cause of global warming “we’re” also responsible for one the destruction of one of our best weapons in fighting global warming.

 

[clint van damme]

Ill stick with the IPCC and the vast majority of climate scientists if that’s OK. We won’t do fuck all though you’re right. And mostly because the decision making infrastructure for first world countries has been broken for years.

He wasn't denying climate change, he was saying we can't afford to be pumping carbon into the atmosphere through legacy vehicles and electric vehicle production and generating electricity to run them on.

 

[Grendel]

“triggers” “bites”

You’re a fully grown man FFS.

ironic

 

[wingy]

SFO.

"Greensill: David Cameron 'made $10m' before company’s collapse - BBC News" Cameron 'made $10m' from Greensill before collapse - BBC News

 

[clint van damme]

Haha! Fucking mentalists

 

[shmmeee]

Haha! Fucking mentalists

Lizardman’s Constant Is 4%

Beware of Phantom Lizardmen I have only done a little bit of social science research, but it was enough to make me hate people. One study I helped with analyzed whether people from different countr…

slatestarcodex.com

 

[Ian1779]

Haha! Fucking mentalists

These are now the kids that asked if we could go to the Sun, and later enquired if it would make a difference if we went at night.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Typical hands off delaying tactic.

By far the biggest emissions in the U.K. in 2019 (not as you’ve posted projections for the whole world in 2014) are transport, energy, business and residential in that order. Agriculture is fifth largest at 10% of emissions and only half of that is methane emissions from cattle.

This isn’t a debate. We know what to do: decarbonise transport, which requires infrastructure investment and subsidies (govt action), decarbonise energy (govt action), reduce heating needs in business and residential properties (needs subsidies - govt action), decarbonise industry (also give regulations and subsidies).

Meat eating, recycling and rinsing plates before dishwashing is the new climate denial. Government just needs to pull their finger out their arse and do what they’ve been avoiding for decades.

Typical hands off delaying tactic.

By far the biggest emissions in the U.K. in 2019 (not as you’ve posted projections for the whole world in 2014) are transport, energy, business and residential in that order. Agriculture is fifth largest at 10% of emissions and only half of that is methane emissions from cattle.

This isn’t a debate. We know what to do: decarbonise transport, which requires infrastructure investment and subsidies (govt action), decarbonise energy (govt action), reduce heating needs in business and residential properties (needs subsidies - govt action), decarbonise industry (also give regulations and subsidies).

Meat eating, recycling and rinsing plates before dishwashing is the new climate denial. Government just needs to pull their finger out their arse and do what they’ve been avoiding for decades.

The figures you are quoting are UK production emissions, not UK consumption emissions. Each new electrical item, each new car, each new gadget from Amazon and sizable percentage of our meat and dairy comes from abroad, and result in emissions. But I'm sympathetic to your argument.

 

[shmmeee]

The figures you are quoting are UK production emissions, not UK consumption emissions. Each new electrical item, each new car, each new gadget from Amazon and sizable percentage of our meat and dairy comes from abroad, and result in emissions. But I'm sympathetic to your argument.

Yes and we need to pressure those countries too. Which is a damn sight easier when our own house is in order.

It’s always excuses why we can’t do simple stuff ourselves and every other country is making the same excuses because we aren’t doing it. We are responsible for a huge amount of historic emissions, what with us kicking off the industrial revolution if you want to point fingers, but finger pointing is a pointless exercise.

Beaides, even if you forget the climate, why shouldn’t we have cleaner air, water, cheaper to heat homes, cheaper electricity in the long run, more independence from Russia? Unless you’re heavily invested in oil stocks I really don’t see why you’d complain.

 

[clint van damme]

Yes and we need to pressure those countries too. Which is a damn sight easier when our own house is in order.

It’s always excuses why we can’t do simple stuff ourselves and every other country is making the same excuses because we aren’t doing it. We are responsible for a huge amount of historic emissions, what with us kicking off the industrial revolution if you want to point fingers, but finger pointing is a pointless exercise.

Beaides, even if you forget the climate, why shouldn’t we have cleaner air, water, cheaper to heat homes, cheaper electricity in the long run, more independence from Russia? Unless you’re heavily invested in oil stocks I really don’t see why you’d complain.

I think we're too late. China have said they're omissions won't start to come down until after 2030 and India don't have a plan in.place to reduce theirs.
I don't think they're going to respond to pressure from anyone.b

Two billionaires with the resources and influence to affect change decided to blast off ⁹into space instead.

Biden seems serious but he can't do it on his own. I'm not hopeful.

 

[skybluetony176]

I think we're too late. China have said they're omissions won't start to come down until after 2030 and India don't have a plan in.place to reduce theirs.
I don't think they're going to respond to pressure from anyone.b

Two billionaires with the resources and influence to affect change decided to blast off ⁹into space instead.

Biden seems serious but he can't do it on his own. I'm not hopeful.

Even then to some degree the focus on China and India is something of a distraction. Carbon footprint per capita the US is the biggest polluter in the world. That’s not to say China and India don’t have issues that need addressing but when it comes to individual responsibility no population can do more than the the population of the USA.

 

[clint van damme]

Even then to some degree the focus on China and India is something of a distraction. Carbon footprint per capita the US is the biggest polluter in the world. That’s not to say China and India don’t have issues that need addressing but when it comes to individual responsibility no population can do more than the the population of the USA.

I thought China was now the biggest polluter?

Even if it is the US it does seem that Biden is taking it seriously, though it could be all smoke and mirrors, I haven't read into it too deeply.

 

[skybluetony176]

I thought China was now the biggest polluter?

Even if it is the US it does seem that Biden is taking it seriously, though it could be all smoke and mirrors, I haven't read into it too deeply.

Per country yes, per capita no.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Regenerative farming shift could reduce UK climate emissions, say experts

Organic farming methods, which use fewer pesticides and store more carbon in soil, are becoming more popular

www.theguardian.com

Some surprising figures quoted on agriculture emissions. Not sure where these have come from, though it might be taking into account the fact that methane has a much greater emissions 'effect' than Co2 (albeit more quickly reversible).

 

[skybluetony176]

Per country yes, per capita no.

On the news last night they were also talking about historical pollution too. Yet again the US leads the way. No one has polluted the world over the last 100 years more than the US and obviously this is an historical problem, it’s not just suddenly arrived in our lap. Again this doesn’t mean that China and India doesn’t have issues that need addressing but to just point the finger at the current biggest polluters isn’t addressing the whole issue.

 

[skybluetony176]

Meanwhile. The Secretary of State for education

Education Secretary Gavin Williamson claims he's 'forgotten' his A-Level results

The top Tory suffered a memory lapse over his own exam results as pupils were awarded record numbers of top grades

www.google.co.uk

 

[CCFCSteve]

On the news last night they were also talking about historical pollution too. Yet again the US leads the way. No one has polluted the world over the last 100 years more than the US and obviously this is an historical problem, it’s not just suddenly arrived in our lap. Again this doesn’t mean that China and India doesn’t have issues that need addressing but to just point the finger at the current biggest polluters isn’t addressing the whole issue.

To be fair if China get their artificial sun to work they could save the planet

...or by (potentially creating and) releasing any more deadly viruses into the wider world and causing millions of deaths to reduce global population...

Would prefer option 1

Ps agree though, US needs to lead the way on this, hopefully Biden will be able to but he’ll be up against it over there

 

[CCFCSteve]

Meanwhile. The Secretary of State for education

Education Secretary Gavin Williamson claims he's 'forgotten' his A-Level results

The top Tory suffered a memory lapse over his own exam results as pupils were awarded record numbers of top grades

www.google.co.uk

I’d guess at least a couple of Ds

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I’d guess at least a couple of Ds

That much?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I don't know what he's ashamed about anyway. Bad A levels don't automatically make you a moron and incompetent.

After all, if he had three As he wouldn't suddenly be a genius in his current role...

 

[shmmeee]

Thought this was interesting, especially to hear the old alt-right “STEM over humanities” argument from the left essentially.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Thought this was interesting, especially to hear the old alt-right “STEM over humanities” argument from the left essentially.

Cant remember if I posted the other day (meant to) but if I was an 18 year old today I’d almost certain do an apprenticeship rather than a generic Uni course. I can understand if someone needs a certain course for a career ie medicine etc but there’s so much cash to be earned from getting a decent trade these days, or money saved by joining schemes run by employers rather than Uni

I’m saying that as someone who loved my time at Uni and have friends from there for life but that was before tuition fees, let alone this talk about more online teaching, which will take away some of the ‘Uni experience’

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Cant remember if I posted the other day (meant to) but if I was an 18 year old today I’d almost certain do an apprenticeship rather than a generic Uni course. I can understand if someone needs a certain course for a career ie medicine etc but there’s so much cash to be earned from getting a decent trade these days, or money saved by joining schemes run by employers rather than Uni

I’m saying that as someone who loved my time at Uni and have friends from there for life but that was before tuition fees, let alone this talk about more online teaching, which will take away some of the ‘Uni experience’

Depends what you're after of course. Sometimes, careers just don't earn cash...

Online also depends in what context. Not sure having my lectures online would have made any difference! Although the seminars would have been a different kettle of fish.

Said it many times - there's nothing wrong whatsoever in a non career specific degree. In the recent past, IT and finance professionals were hired from English and History, as they had the analytic skills required. The problem has been since commercialising universities, it's devalued a number of degrees, as universities hoover people up for the cash, rather than anything else.

There needs a space where someone's chosen route isn't devalued in comparison to others, whatever it is, a route where work is valued whatever it is, and skills are valued whatever they are, without intellectual snobbery or, reverse snobbery too for that matter. I appreciate human nature will always take over there to some extent, but institutionally we need to start valuing people, rather than titles, better.

 

[shmmeee]

Cant remember if I posted the other day (meant to) but if I was an 18 year old today I’d almost certain do an apprenticeship rather than a generic Uni course. I can understand if someone needs a certain course for a career ie medicine etc but there’s so much cash to be earned from getting a decent trade these days, or money saved by joining schemes run by employers rather than Uni

I’m saying that as someone who loved my time at Uni and have friends from there for life but that was before tuition fees, let alone this talk about more online teaching, which will take away some of the ‘Uni experience’

I did an apprenticeship, then I did a degree. The degree experience was definitely great, if we could find a way to give that to apprentices (trade schools? Student dorms for apprentices?) and it also opened up my options in my field (computing). But most degrees as the article says are worthless. Already having this convo with my 11 year old, Uni is great, but if you’re not going into a technical field you’re probably better getting experience.

Also my apprenticeship (Marconi) was a genuinely great apprenticeship with a good mix of learning and experience and a consistent group that got on well. Today’s apprenticeships seem to be little more than cheap labour.

 

[RedSalmon]

I did an apprenticeship, then I did a degree. The degree experience was definitely great, if we could find a way to give that to apprentices (trade schools? Student dorms for apprentices?) and it also opened up my options in my field (computing). But most degrees as the article says are worthless. Already having this convo with my 11 year old, Uni is great, but if you’re not going into a technical field you’re probably better getting experience.

Also my apprenticeship (Marconi) was a genuinely great apprenticeship with a good mix of learning and experience and a consistent group that got on well. Today’s apprenticeships seem to be little more than cheap labour.

Think you have really hit the nail on the head, the whole concept of an 'apprenticeship' seems to have been hijacked and the term is now applied to any training scheme that involves young people. Served an engineering apprenticeship at a large company in Coventry and it included an in depth training programme that was structured over four years which was designed to integrate us into the company and give us skills and recognised qualifications that would help us grow and develop as young people.
From what I have seen of apprenticeship schemes today they seem little more than 'tick box' exercises that don't really challenge the apprentice or encourage them to develop. Am speaking now as someone who has had to 'sign off' apprentices when they had completed their 'tasks', most of which seemed so low level in terms of skill requirement it seemed fairly pointless.

 

[shmmeee]

Think you have really hit the nail on the head, the whole concept of an 'apprenticeship' seems to have been hijacked and the term is now applied to any training scheme that involves young people. Served an engineering apprenticeship at a large company in Coventry and it included an in depth training programme that was structured over four years which was designed to integrate us into the company and give us skills and recognised qualifications that would help us grow and develop as young people.
From what I have seen of apprenticeship schemes today they seem little more than 'tick box' exercises that don't really challenge the apprentice or encourage them to develop. Am speaking now as someone who has had to 'sign off' apprentices when they had completed their 'tasks', most of which seemed so low level in terms of skill requirement it seemed fairly pointless.

Ive got a couple starting at the end of the month. From management it’s entirely seen as cheap labour for low end tasks they don’t want to pay minimum wage for. They’ve been sold to us by a third party who will “do their training” (a couple of online courses). Genuinely embarrassed and will be trying my best to give them a proper experience. Especially as we aren’t talking about kids here. Ones got a Masters degree!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Ive got a couple starting at the end of the month. From management it’s entirely seen as cheap labour for low end tasks they don’t want to pay minimum wage for. They’ve been sold to us by a third party who will “do their training” (a couple of online courses). Genuinely embarrassed and will be trying my best to give them a proper experience. Especially as we aren’t talking about kids here. Ones got a Masters degree!

What we often don;t do is push people, and that can be... annoying.

 

[RedSalmon]

What we often don;t do is push people, and that can be... annoying.

Utterly agree, the ones I have had to deal with have never been challenged, they have just been given a series of tasks to be competent at and then get signed off. The lack of structured development is shocking and they get into a mindset of learning 'just enough'. At that young age they do need to be challenged as that will help develop their approach throughout their career.

 

[RedSalmon]

Ive got a couple starting at the end of the month. From management it’s entirely seen as cheap labour for low end tasks they don’t want to pay minimum wage for. They’ve been sold to us by a third party who will “do their training” (a couple of online courses). Genuinely embarrassed and will be trying my best to give them a proper experience. Especially as we aren’t talking about kids here. Ones got a Masters degree!

Very similar situation where I used to work (recently retired......thank god!!!). We had people put on courses that bore no relation to the role they were expected to undertake but were told to carry on because there was no alternative. This is in health care.
Am pretty sure that any organisation with a turn over of 1 million plus has to pay some sort of levy into a training fund that they can only get back if they provide training for young people.............hence the proliferation of 'apprenticeships' for young people.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Utterly agree, the ones I have had to deal with have never been challenged, they have just been given a series of tasks to be competent at and then get signed off. The lack of structured development is shocking and they get into a mindset of learning 'just enough'. At that young age they do need to be challenged as that will help develop their approach throughout their career.

I've taught at universities, and also seen apprentices come through where I work now, and I'm amazed really. At university, it was very much they're paying their tuition fees, that's what we want them for - which seemed to neglect the fact we had young people who needed nurturing, challenging, helping... and then the apprentices there's very much a culture of 'that'll do'. It also seems slightly pointless that we hire apprentices from time to time, with no long term role for them to potentially go into with us so at that stage, you have to ask why, other than box ticking and cheap labour? That seems to be letting them down really, especially as I struggle to see training!

Both universities and apprenticeships could be great ways to develop people, and that isn't always learning a trade immediately either, but there's a need to actually do some development at some point!

 

[fernandopartridge]

Cant remember if I posted the other day (meant to) but if I was an 18 year old today I’d almost certain do an apprenticeship rather than a generic Uni course. I can understand if someone needs a certain course for a career ie medicine etc but there’s so much cash to be earned from getting a decent trade these days, or money saved by joining schemes run by employers rather than Uni

I’m saying that as someone who loved my time at Uni and have friends from there for life but that was before tuition fees, let alone this talk about more online teaching, which will take away some of the ‘Uni experience’

What's wrong with education for its own sake?

 

[CCFCSteve]

What's wrong with education for its own sake?

Nothing at all, it’s each to their own. Just saying what I’d do now....if that’s allowed ?! I was borderline between going into work and uni, chose uni as got a grant but didn’t really have an idea of what I’d do after it/with my degree. It served me well and I loved it but ultimately in current times I’d be paying tens of thousands for what would be a punt, when I could probably get the same support and training through an apprenticeship/work programme

 

[JAM See]

Ive got a couple starting at the end of the month. From management it’s entirely seen as cheap labour for low end tasks they don’t want to pay minimum wage for. They’ve been sold to us by a third party who will “do their training” (a couple of online courses). Genuinely embarrassed and will be trying my best to give them a proper experience. Especially as we aren’t talking about kids here. Ones got a Masters degree!

I had a couple before I finished at my old place. They're now mid twenties and both are excellent at their jobs.

We gave them demanding tasks but I always took the bollocking when they fucked up (not healthcare before you ask), which is all part of learning.

It was nice watching those wet behind the ears 18 year olds blossom into fully functioning members of staff.

The grads always seemed to want everything handed to them on a plate.

Just my experience and purely anecdotal.