Do you want to discuss boring politics? (59 Viewers)

[fernandopartridge]

The left showing it’s political naivety again. Having a big bust up and childish chanting plays right into Starmers hands right now.

The approach the left Dems took after Bidens confirmation as candidate would’ve been much more productive: conditional support rather than outright opposition.

Biden didn't make 10 pledges that he didn't have any intention of keeping though, did he?

 

---

[shmmeee]

Biden didn't make 10 pledges that he didn't have any intention of keeping though, did he?

Which pledges has he said he’ll break?

 

[fernandopartridge]

This speech is really good and is what the Labour Party should be about, pure aspiration for ordinary people and the hope that things can get better.

The hecklers have destroyed themselves and they just sound lame and sad now.

I wouldn't say that, it was pretty vague with no real aspiration to anything better than tinkering with the status quo. The same new Labour supply side stuff that has no real impact:

 

[fernandopartridge]

Which pledges has he said he’ll break?

He hasn't named any specifically but

Starmer: I’m ready to break pledges to make Labour electable

Keir Starmer has said he is willing to tear up the promises he made during the Labour leadership election if it is needed to make the party electable.

www.independent.co.uk

There is an argument that he had misleadingly presented common ownership of utilities as akin to nationalisation in his election material. Yet he broke that one the other day. I've no idea what he means by common ownership, wouldn't be surprised if he suggests everybody buy shares off Sid like Maggie did.

 

[shmmeee]

He hasn't named any specifically but

Starmer: I’m ready to break pledges to make Labour electable

Keir Starmer has said he is willing to tear up the promises he made during the Labour leadership election if it is needed to make the party electable.

www.independent.co.uk

There is an argument that he had misleadingly presented common ownership of utilities as akin to nationalisation in his election material. Yet he broke that one the other day. I've no idea what he means by common ownership, wouldn't be surprised if he suggests everybody buy shares off Sid like Maggie did.

I understand common ownership as like Corbyns energy policy: co-ops either worker or customer owned rather than state owned.

There seems to be a lot of bad faith and assumptions about what he’ll do in the future here.

For me I’m glad he’s focused on winning, it’s step one. I’m not convinced he can do that but I understand his approach. When we’ve got some actual policy to oppose from a sitting government then I’ll hold him to it, until then it’s all irrelevant really.

There’s some positions he’s taken that I’m vehemently against but the idea he’s turning Labour into the Tories isn’t a credible take IMO. If anything he’s still too socially liberal and left wing for the electorate.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I understand common ownership as like Corbyns energy policy: co-ops either worker or customer owned rather than state owned.

There seems to be a lot of bad faith and assumptions about what he’ll do in the future here.

For me I’m glad he’s focused on winning, it’s step one. I’m not convinced he can do that but I understand his approach. When we’ve got some actual policy to oppose from a sitting government then I’ll hold him to it, until then it’s all irrelevant really.

There’s some positions he’s taken that I’m vehemently against but the idea he’s turning Labour into the Tories isn’t a credible take IMO. If anything he’s still too socially liberal and left wing for the electorate.

Policies don't matter a jot for most people and focussing on that will only lead to more of the same. All about perception and personality and sadly for him he is lacking in both departments

 

[shmmeee]

Policies don't matter a jot for most people and focussing on that will only lead to more of the same. All about perception and personality and sadly for him he is lacking in both departments

Id agree about the latter. Former though he’s actually polling pretty well personally with the public.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Id agree about the latter. Former though he’s actually polling pretty well personally with the public.

Got any recent ones?

 

[shmmeee]

Got any recent ones?

Exclusive: Keir Starmer and Boris Johnson draw level on best PM rating

It is the first time in 13 years the Labour leader has not been behind in this key rating

www.standard.co.uk

 

[fernandopartridge]

Oh and Starmer like any other MP using a personal experience of the NHS to validate the work of NHS staff is crass as fuck. We already know this mate but remember it was only a few months back the Tories outwitted you in relation to the nurses' pay deal.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Exclusive: Keir Starmer and Boris Johnson draw level on best PM rating

It is the first time in 13 years the Labour leader has not been behind in this key rating

www.standard.co.uk

All that shows is Johnson went down nearly 10% while Starmer stays the same?

 

[CCFCSteve]

All that shows is Johnson went down nearly 10% while Starmer stays the same?

Doesn’t matter though mate. People need to appreciate you only need to be good enough to beat your main rival. If Johnson and the government are floundering then Starmer doesn’t need to be spectacular…just competent to the wider electorate (something the harder left don’t seem to grasp)

 

[shmmeee]

All that shows is Johnson went down nearly 10% while Starmer stays the same?

And yet no Labour leader has managed it for 13 years. Even when May was in charge. You asked for recent polling that was favourable, I gave it to you.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Id agree about the latter. Former though he’s actually polling pretty well personally with the public.

Yep, the majority of Labour voters want Starmer to step down.

When's the release of the Forde Report again?

 

[chiefdave]

Empty shelves, no fuel and talk of Christmas being 'cancelled' results in Labour losing ground. I don't get it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Empty shelves, no fuel and talk of Christmas being 'cancelled' results in Labour losing ground. I don't get it.

Because the Greens and LDs picked up support from the Tory slump rather than Labour.

 

[shmmeee]

View attachment 22040View attachment 22041
View attachment 22042

Yep, the majority of Labour voters want Starmer to step down.

When's the release of the Forde Report again?

Still when the ICO investigation is complete like the last ten times you asked

Boris Johnson is one of the least popular Tory MPs among his own party.

I know this will come as a shock to you, but party members don’t make up 100% of the electorate.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Because the Greens and LDs picked up support from the Tory slump rather than Labour.

.....otherwise known as the Starmer effect...

 

[Deleted member 5849]

DEFRA Gene editing consultation and deregulation bad for sustainable farming

www.soilassociation.org

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

.....otherwise known as the Starmer effect...

It’s OK. He’s now seen as barely more fit to govern than the biggest idiot to ever grace Number 10

 

[Philosoraptor]

It’s OK. He’s now seen as barely more fit to govern than the biggest idiot to ever grace Number 10

Quite scarily in general Starmer is polling much better than the Labour Party which shows the absolute catastrafuck of what has happened to Labour when Starmer's figures are this bad.

 

[Ian1779]

Quite scarily in general Starmer is polling much better than the Labour Party which shows the absolute catastrafuck of what has happened to Labour when Starmer's figures are this bad.

It will take them a decade to recover from their final Brexit position alone.

 

[shmmeee]

It will take them a decade to recover from their final Brexit position alone.

Have you seen the latest polling on Brexit?

 

[skybluetony176]

Have you seen the latest polling on Brexit?

Less than 20% think it’s worked and more than 50% think it’s failed from the latest yougov polling I read earlier.

Brexit will be Boris’ poll tax.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Less than 20% think it’s worked and more than 50% think it’s failed from the latest yougov polling I read earlier.

Brexit will be Boris’ poll tax.

Nobody voted for poll tax. The majority voted for Brexit.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

It will take them a decade to recover from their final Brexit position alone.

The problem was the ridiculous Brexit position Corbyn took all along

 

[skybluetony176]

Nobody voted for poll tax. The majority voted for Brexit.

It was in the Tory manifesto for the 1987 GE, which they won with a sizeable majority and the popular vote. So not strictly true.

 

[JAM See]

Nobody voted for poll tax. The majority voted for Brexit.

Less than 20% think it’s worked and more than 50% think it’s failed from the latest yougov polling I read earlier.

Brexit will be Boris’ poll tax.

Not sure of the demographics, but I reckon that 52/48 split is being eroded as time goes on.

The problem is, I believe that any new joinee of the EU (i.e the UK) has to commit to using the Euro as their de facto currency.

The rejoining the EU ship has sailed,

For whatever reason, the media will take against it, and that will be that.

We have to put up with this, for better or worse.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It was in the Tory manifesto for the 1987 GE, which they won with a sizeable majority and the popular vote. So not strictly true.

Nobody directly voted for it in a binary referendum.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not sure of the demographics, but I reckon that 52/48 split is being eroded as time goes on.

The problem is, I believe that any new joinee of the EU (i.e the UK) has to commit to using the Euro as their de facto currency.

The rejoining the EU ship has sailed,

For whatever reason, the media will take against it, and that will be that.

We have to put up with this, for better or worse.

My Tory friends who now regret their vote have conceded that Schengen needs to be joined and FoM needs to be restored to relieve the labour shortage. Basically to rejoin in all but name

 

[Ian1779]

Have you seen the latest polling on Brexit?

Yes - but it’s one thing people realising the clusterfuck that is Brexit for themselves, it’s another thing them being told by a group of Westminster MP’s they weren’t informed enough to make the right decision.

 

[Ian1779]

Less than 20% think it’s worked and more than 50% think it’s failed from the latest yougov polling I read earlier.

Brexit will be Boris’ poll tax.

But the Tories still got another election win through… which is worrying.

 

[shmmeee]

Yes - but it’s one thing people realising the clusterfuck that is Brexit for themselves, it’s another thing them being told by a group of Westminster MP’s they weren’t informed enough to make the right decision.

Wasn’t the Labour Brexit policy for another referendum?

The impression o get on here is very much Brexiters are in a state of “don’t mention the war” I’m not sure it’ll matter as much as day to day stuff come the next election let alone in a decade. We’ll see though.

 

[Ian1779]

My Tory friends who now regret their vote have conceded that Schengen needs to be joined and FoM needs to be restored to relieve the labour shortage. Basically to rejoin in all but name

But there’s no chance of that happening is there? Labour have said they won’t entertain FoM and there’s no way the Tories ever will.

 

[Ian1779]

Wasn’t the Labour Brexit policy for another referendum?

The impression o get on here is very much Brexiters are in a state of “don’t mention the war” I’m not sure it’ll matter as much as day to day stuff come the next election let alone in a decade. We’ll see though.

Yes it was - but all the noise behind it was about a PV because the public (Leave voters in essence) didn’t know what they voted for.

I hope you are right to be honest. But as Brighton said, we need things like FoM but now even Labour have doubled down and said they won’t restore it…