Derby points deduction (6 Viewers)

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

They may have been good enough if Derby hadn't cheated

Derby didn’t cheat last year though… they cheated a few years back.

 

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[SkyblueDad]

I was told by a work colleague this morning that we are in for Lawrence, but I can't see it either.

I couldn’t see the Jake Bidwell deal happening either.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

We had loads of sympathy for being owned by a narcissist hedge fund controller and the EFL really turned a blind eye to our wanders around the country - we were funding wages in Northampton on 2,000 attendances but had a much higher wage bill than generated revenue

Honestly the reaction is embarrassing

Always should support other clubs anyway - it's not the fans' fault, and who wants to start the house of cards falling anyway? One day, it might be us (again!) needing that support...

 

[skyblueelephant76]

Derby didn’t cheat last year though… they cheated a few years back.

They were hardly a model club last year, they signed Kamil Jozwiak for £4m even though they were in a complete mess.

 

[SkyblueDad]

Always should support other clubs anyway - it's not the fans' fault, and who wants to start the house of cards falling anyway? One day, it might be us (again!) needing that support...

I don’t agree I’m not itching to see Derby go bust but make your bed you lie on it.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I don’t agree I’m not itching to see Derby go bust but make your bed you lie on it.

...like us then?

 

[SkyblueDad]

Exactly

 

[Flying Fokker]

We were never really on the brink in the same way. And yes, we did get a lot of support from other clubs and their fans.

Agreed, it was the likes of the people who put us on the sacrificial altar that made Us different. No tŵo clubs are the same anyway. The fanfare that followed our buy out way a false dawn. I would never want any club to go out of business…Maybe 10 of the Prem cartel? Serby fans are no different ro us and are victims of a broken league structure.

 

[Nick]

Agreed, it was the likes of the people who put us on the sacrificial altar that made Us different. No tŵo clubs are the same anyway. The fanfare that followed our buy out way a false dawn. I would never want any club to go out of business…Maybe 10 of the Prem cartel? Serby fans are no different ro us and are victims of a broken league structure.

Not sure you can blame the league structure or call them victims?

 

[Flying Fokker]

We had loads of sympathy for being owned by a narcissist hedge fund controller and the EFL really turned a blind eye to our wanders around the country - we were funding wages in Northampton on 2,000 attendances but had a much higher wage bill than generated revenue

Honestly the reaction is embarrassing

I‘m still bitter as well. The fans always lose out. I can’t seenDerby being liquidated. The club may re-form and do a Rangers by dropping to League 2 but they have such a big fan base that deserve to watch their team. I dare say they are going through what we went through. The EFL is clueless. Why shouldn’t EFL be sued by the likes of Wycombe and Middlesbrough? I guess the league could fold if that were the case. Derby may be guilty but the EFL needs to take responsibility for the decisions they make As well. Northampton/Birmingham as a home base is one example. The likes of Stoke, Reading, Bristol City and a fair few others need to be bought to book. Relegate any club that falls short of FFP regardless of the amount they are overspending.

 

[Flying Fokker]

Not sure you can blame the league structure or call them victims?

TBH I‘m just looking for solutions to the continued cycle of admin/potential liquidation. It’s us fans that suffer. We demand a lot as well. Mabye the game does need to restructure? Derby is having to swim in it’s own shit. Fair enough but keep the club alive somehow…For the fans.

 

[mark82]

A thought on this one: possibly a loan with us covering a portion of the wages rather than all? Still unrealistic in my mind but that would make more sense as a bit of a ‘2nd half of the season gamble’.

Think Derby probably need to fully offload high earners.

 

[MusicDating]

TBH I‘m just looking for solutions to the continued cycle of admin/potential liquidation. It’s us fans that suffer. We demand a lot as well. Mabye the game does need to restructure? Derby is having to swim in it’s own shit. Fair enough but keep the club alive somehow…For the fans.

Were the Derby fans suffering when Mel Morris overspent and got to the play-off final? Or Pompey fans suffering when they overspent to win the FA Cup?

Derby will have to sell any players worth anything in the next couple of weeks to get through til the rest of the season. And if next season they go down again cos they can only afford 1k/week wages in order to break even, so be it. Pretty much what we had to do.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

TBH I‘m just looking for solutions to the continued cycle of admin/potential liquidation. It’s us fans that suffer. We demand a lot as well. Mabye the game does need to restructure? Derby is having to swim in it’s own shit. Fair enough but keep the club alive somehow…For the fans.

When it works nobody seems bothered that a club has run up obscene losses to chase the dragon-nor that it encourages clubs like Derby to do the same to keep up the spending

 

[MusicDating]

Club Statement: Derby County Salty

 

[Frostie]

The likes of Stoke, Reading, Bristol City and a fair few others need to be bought to book. Relegate any club that falls short of FFP regardless of the amount they are overspending.

The whole structure is flawed when there's so much money at the top table & a pathetically small trickle down to everyone else, clubs feel they have no choice but to gamble to get there.

Since the concept of FFP was brought in only 2 clubs have ever been promoted to the Premier League without failing FFP to do so.

 

[mark82]

Club Statement: Derby County Salty

It's nonsense. What about every team they beat during that season? Could each of those claim too? Should every team below them be entitled to another step up in prize money? What about the team who finished third bottom in any season they're alleged to have cheated?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The whole structure is flawed when there's so much money at the top table & a pathetically small trickle down to everyone else, clubs feel they have no choice but to gamble to get there.

Since the concept of FFP was brought in only 2 clubs have ever been promoted to the Premier League without failing FFP to do so.

ffp is seriously flawed anyway. Watch this statement blow up in my face now(!) but the Coates family have been quite happy to fund Stoke - it's been his passion for years, he was chairman before but didn't have the means until online betting took off to do it properly. Why shouldn't he pump money into the club he loves?

Now there's certainly an argument to be had about the way that's done, but until we revert back to clubs from plcs (never going to happen) then we have to live with the accounting procedures. Introducing a way to try and maintain the status quo for the richest clubs at that time of writing is not the way to go, however.

 

[Northeast sky blue]

It's nonsense. What about every team they beat during that season? Could each of those claim too? Should every team below them be entitled to another step up in prize money? What about the team who finished third bottom in any season they're alleged to have cheated?

Derby's results would have to be declared null and void and every seasons table be recalculated

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

ffp is seriously flawed anyway. Watch this statement blow up in my face now(!) but the Coates family have been quite happy to fund Stoke - it's been his passion for years, he was chairman before but didn't have the means until online betting took off to do it properly. Why shouldn't he pump money into the club he loves?

Now there's certainly an argument to be had about the way that's done, but until we revert back to clubs from plcs (never going to happen) then we have to live with the accounting procedures. Introducing a way to try and maintain the status quo for the richest clubs at that time of writing is not the way to go, however.

Some owners of clubs get round the financial fair play rules by converting the money they inject into the club by converting it to shares.

 

[Grendel]

ffp is seriously flawed anyway. Watch this statement blow up in my face now(!) but the Coates family have been quite happy to fund Stoke - it's been his passion for years, he was chairman before but didn't have the means until online betting took off to do it properly. Why shouldn't he pump money into the club he loves?

Now there's certainly an argument to be had about the way that's done, but until we revert back to clubs from plcs (never going to happen) then we have to live with the accounting procedures. Introducing a way to try and maintain the status quo for the richest clubs at that time of writing is not the way to go, however.

a real world view - there is hope for you yet.

 

[wingy]

We had loads of sympathy for being owned by a narcissist hedge fund controller and the EFL really turned a blind eye to our wanders around the country - we were funding wages in Northampton on 2,000 attendances but had a much higher wage bill than generated revenue

Honestly the reaction is embarrassing

Yes I recall saying often at the time that money from the likes of Wilsden etc was being squandered on the venture when she'd stated publicly her wealthy backers would be covering the losses, this after the clubs own survey told them only ten percent would travel and Fisher saying there would be 7k.

 

[Liquid Gold]

ffp is seriously flawed anyway. Watch this statement blow up in my face now(!) but the Coates family have been quite happy to fund Stoke - it's been his passion for years, he was chairman before but didn't have the means until online betting took off to do it properly. Why shouldn't he pump money into the club he loves?

Now there's certainly an argument to be had about the way that's done, but until we revert back to clubs from plcs (never going to happen) then we have to live with the accounting procedures. Introducing a way to try and maintain the status quo for the richest clubs at that time of writing is not the way to go, however.

I don't actually have a problem with that but there should be some regulations that enforce owners to be personally responsible for the full wages of any players bought in during their tenure if the club goes under during their ownership.

In this case then you can go nuts and back the club to the top if you're Coates but if you fuck things up like Morris then you have to pay the price over the fans.

 

[mark82]

ffp is seriously flawed anyway. Watch this statement blow up in my face now(!) but the Coates family have been quite happy to fund Stoke - it's been his passion for years, he was chairman before but didn't have the means until online betting took off to do it properly. Why shouldn't he pump money into the club he loves?

Now there's certainly an argument to be had about the way that's done, but until we revert back to clubs from plcs (never going to happen) then we have to live with the accounting procedures. Introducing a way to try and maintain the status quo for the richest clubs at that time of writing is not the way to go, however.

I do agree with this. FFP only really benefits the big clubs who generate more money. It's a balance though, if rich benefactors pull funding it can leave clubs in all sorts of trouble.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I do agree with this. FFP only really benefits the big clubs who generate more money. It's a balance though, if rich benefactors pull funding it can leave clubs in all sorts of trouble.

I’ve wanted a spending cap for a long time, as a mitigation for piss taking clubs.

 

[SkyblueDad]

I’ve wanted a spending cap for a long time, as a mitigation for piss taking clubs.

Can’t see that ever happening the biggest change that needs to happen is a wage cap but I can’t see that happening either. Something like covid might bring some sort of sanity wage wise but that will only be below the premier.

 

[Liquid Gold]

I’ve wanted a spending cap for a long time, as a mitigation for piss taking clubs.

Best thing that could happen is a squad cap at all age groups above a certain age. Stops clubs becoming loan farms and allows talent to come down the pyramid.

Would also result in lower transfer fees at this level as PL clubs would have to release a player before signing a new one if they couldn’t find a buyer and could possibly suppress wages.

 

[win9nut]

I’ve wanted a spending cap for a long time, as a mitigation for piss taking clubs.

Problem with a cap is that clubs that genuinely make more money won't be able to invest that into their squad without some mechanic that links expenses to income, hence FFP...

 

[Mcbean]

Derby new owners will have a 49 million claim from Middleborough and one from Wycombe to contend with potentially- that’s a fair risk

 

[covboy1987]

Derby didn’t cheat last year though… they cheated a few years back.

I do agree with this. FFP only really benefits the big clubs who generate more money. It's a balance though, if rich benefactors pull funding it can leave clubs in all sorts of trouble.

The Germans are the ones we should follow - Fans/ Members of German top clubs basically own 51% of the shares so have the control of the club - where does this all end - who is the next Derby? possibly Birmingham

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

The Germans are the ones we should follow - Fans/ Members of German top clubs basically own 51% of the shares so have the control of the club - where does this all end - who is the next Derby? possibly Birmingham

Problem with that method is all it has done has maintained the status Quo, Bayern Munich and occasionally Dortmund are going to win that league.

RB Leipzig have been decent but that’s only because Red Bull have fudged the membership criteria

 

[SBAndy]

Problem with a cap is that clubs that genuinely make more money won't be able to invest that into their squad without some mechanic that links expenses to income, hence FFP...

The thing I’ve never got my head around is why L1 and L2 are on SCMP (where you can only spend a portion of turnover on wages) and yet in the Champ you’re permitted to lose £15m a year or something daft. Why not continue with the ‘% of turnover’ wage cap?

 

[Londonccfcfan]

Derby new owners will have a 49 million claim from Middleborough and one from Wycombe to contend with potentially- that’s a fair risk

championship:table 2019/2020 - Google Search

www.google.com

Cant see how Middlesbrough claims can be in the 10s of millions. I would have thought the maximum they could claim is the lost revenue from 2 play off games and potentially the final.

Complete leeches. And wycombe too.

They are still miles away from reaching the premier league. Lots of if and buts in their claim. Realistically they can only claim lost revenue for 2 play off games.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

The thing I’ve never got my head around is why L1 and L2 are on SCMP (where you can only spend a portion of turnover on wages) and yet in the Champ you’re permitted to lose £15m a year or something daft. Why not continue with the ‘% of turnover’ wage cap?

If Derby are liquidated then this could well be brought in. It’s been going on for years and a blind eye’s been turned by everyone but them going might make the EFL and clubs take note,

 

[Londonccfcfan]

championship:table 2019/2020 - Google Search

www.google.com

Cant see how Middlesbrough claims can be in the 10s of millions. I would have thought the maximum they could claim is the lost revenue from 2 play off games and potentially the final.

Complete leeches. And wycombe too.

They are still miles away from reaching the premier league. Lots of if and buts in their claim. Realistically they can only claim lost revenue for 2 play off games.

2018/19 championship table - Google Search

www.google.com

Corrction 2018/19 table