USSR invades Ukraine. (34 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Politely disagree, this suits China very nicely. A weaker Russia and a distracted NATO is very handy for their global interests, imho, which is why they're staying on the sidelines.

What the West does now might well influence their approach to Taiwan though...

Well by kingmaker I don’t mean they have decided either way. But they can tip the scales in either direction

 

---

[tisza]

Putin isn't going attack full Nato members

6 months ago no-one seriously thought he would invade Ukraine. He's deadly serious about NATO pulling out of former Eastern European states.
Does this invasion of the Ukraine seem a rational act?
Is it likely he invades a NATO state right now? Probably not. If these sanctions do seriously effect Russia will he just back down? Probably not.
Assumptions that rational thought dictates actions should be viewed with caution.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Putin's speech on what would happen to any country who tries to stop him taking Ukraine makes me assume he's not ruling out nuclear weapons. Something along the lines of " the consequences will be something that no one has ever experienced in history"
He's a madman. Plain and simple.

Absolutely. Thankfully we don't still have one in charge in the USA too, although Biden is pretty useless.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Coventry has a good Ukrainian population of hard-working people who love their country and this one for taking them in after the war. My family is one of them. I'm sure they'd all appreciate your support today.

Absolutely mate

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Putin isn't going attack full Nato members

Not yet

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Sorry for saying this, but I fear the only way to stop this is taking Putin out.

How?

 

[Otis]

I can see Russia eventually losing out in all this. The one true winner though will be China.

 

[CCFCSteve]

How?

Is Jack Bauer still around ?

 

[tisza]

But that was Russian rebels wasn't it. This is now the full Russian military.

There were regular Russian forces there just not in an official capacity. All the arms and leadership were provided by Russia. We were farming that region at the time and our colleagues obviously had friends and family there. Was no secret what was going on there.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Did Blair not say that Trident strategically was obsolete and was there for show? In any case as history has shown the only way to stop people like this is to invade and get rid of them before they get rid of you.

But if he’s so mad as not to care about everyone getting killed then what next? He also has an enormous amount of territory he could relocate populations to which no other country really does.

It is not strategically obsolete whatsoever. It is about the only thing that will save us if Putin decides to use nukes.

The guy has lost it mate. I fear he wants to go down in history now and won't stop at nothing. If he gets away with this then what next? I am really disturbed by all of this to be honest.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Apparently soldiers have rolled across into the Ukraine from Belarus close to the Polish border. I'm sure the Polish armed forces are going to be on high alert even at this stage. This looks very messy.

 

[Otis]

There were regular Russian forces there just not in an official capacity. All the arms and leadership were provided by Russia. We were farming that region at the time and our colleagues obviously had friends and family there. Was no secret what was going on there.

No, I don't disagree. This is now full-on though.

 

[skybluetony176]

If no one stands up to him he is going to keep going. He has totally lost it and I don't see how any form of de-escalation can work here other than submission.

Imagine if we had voted Corbyn in and he had binned Trident. Doesn't bear thinking about at this moment in time.

Imagine have campaigned for and voted brexit to stick two fingers up to the EU salivating at the prospect of the EU collapsing and align with Putin. Still. War in Europe was project fear.

 

[skybluetony176]

Apparently soldiers have rolled across into the Ukraine from Belarus close to the Polish border. I'm sure the Polish armed forces are going to be on high alert even at this stage. This looks very messy even at this stage.

Has anyone talked about sanctions on Belarus yet? Can’t recall that happening. If not surely that should be part of any action given they’re facilitating this invasion.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Imagine have campaigned for and voted brexit to stick two fingers up to the EU salivating at the prospect of the EU collapsing and align with Putin. Still. War in Europe was project fear.

What the fuck are you on about?

 

[David O'Day]

Not yet

Not at all as that triggers actual military action from all Nato members.

it's the basis of the whole treaty

Let's keep things factual

 

[David O'Day]

6 months ago no-one seriously thought he would invade Ukraine. He's deadly serious about NATO pulling out of former Eastern European states.
Does this invasion of the Ukraine seem a rational act?
Is it likely he invades a NATO state right now? Probably not. If these sanctions do seriously effect Russia will he just back down? Probably not.
Assumptions that rational thought dictates actions should be viewed with caution.

If he attacks a Nato state he is at war with Nato i.e the US which even he knows he can not win

 

[Evo1883]

If he attacks a Nato state he is at war with Nato i.e the US which even he knows he can not win

Like Afghanistan knew they couldn't?

 

[skybluetony176]

What the fuck are you on about?

Brexit is a Putin asset. Surely no one can be in denial about that now. We’re isolated from the EU in terms of sanctions to the benefit of Putin, we’ve given his oligarchs, henchmen and allies more time to get money out. And of course the brexit minister enough time to get his investments out of Russia.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Putin isn't going attack full Nato members

Yet...

If he took Ukraine and felt emboldened he'd push further.

No-one thought Hitler would be crazy enough to attack Russia while still fighting in the West, but by that point he'd become so deranged and spurred on by his march through Europe that he did. Absolutely suicidal decision that cost the lives of millions.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Sorry for saying this, but I fear the only way to stop this is taking Putin out.

Probably, but given his absolute control he has over information to the Russian people it would jut martyr him and make them feel the entire world is against them. Like in Communist Russia there will always be someone waiting in the wings to take over, so even if there are those that are anti-Putin, who do exist, there will never be an opportunity for them to express that.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Do that and he is easily turned into a martyr by the person who follows. Without nukes the world could simply dogpile Russia from all sides and dismantle the regime. With them it seems impossibly difficult unless sanctions can be imposed to be so severe as equivalent to a counter invasion.

China is kingmaker here

Agreed. And that's not a warming thought either. Xi has the potential to be as bad. Arguably even more control over the population than Putin, and certainly willing to remove any dissenters. So if we're relying on Chinese help eventually, they'll undoubtedly demand things like total control of Taiwan, Hong Kong, Tibet/Nepal.

If they hang back like the Americans in WWII, they stand to be able to say they swung the war and have the money to loan to countries affected, putting a lot of countries at their mercy. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.

The entire situation feels a bit like WWII but moved slightly to the East.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Has anyone talked about sanctions on Belarus yet? Can’t recall that happening. If not surely that should be part of any action given they’re facilitating this invasion.

I believe there are already massive sanctions on Belarus, and has been for some time.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

If he attacks a Nato state he is at war with Nato i.e the US which even he knows he can not win

The weak woke West holds no fears for Putin. Any doubts about that went out the window with Biden's shameful handling of Afghanistan. He will have the backing of China and I believe will push into the Baltic states.

 

[SBT]

Think it's about time people stopped believing russia give a shit about sanctions

On the contrary, I think they care very much, and Putin has spent years preparing their economy for this precise eventuality. They've built up huge reserves to try and operate an economy that has been trying to westernize for decades, but could soon be largely cut off from the west. It's a bold experiment, but one that is likely to fail.

The "underwhelming" reaction (as @Grendel put it) on the Russian markets (I'm talking currency, equity and bond markets) has been devastating, and that's in the space of a few hours. The ruble is at a record low, shares have collapsed, and Russian access to dollars is only going to get harder as new sanctions come in. This is going to result in massive hardship for ordinary Russian people over the next few months, as well as massive inconvenience, financial losses and status shocks for Russian oligarchs. Putin doesn't have to listen to any of them, but he does have to hope he can wrap up his military conquests before they start making him seriously question his own job security. He wouldn't be the first Russian leader to be taken out by his own elites, and Putin knows his history.

 

[SBT]

I believe there are already massive sanctions on Belarus, and has been for some time.

There are indeed. I'm not sure they're "massive" enough to change Lukashenko's thinking (the threat of being strung up by your own people is a powerful argument to ignore them), but they do exist. More to follow, you have to assume.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Imagine have campaigned for and voted brexit to stick two fingers up to the EU salivating at the prospect of the EU collapsing and align with Putin. Still. War in Europe was project fear.

Come on Tony, I think this is for the other thread. We’ve proven we can remain involved/have an influence in nato which is the main driver for stuff like this. The decisions the government and the city have made in the past about oligarchs etc is nothing to do with Brexit more greed and potential corruption.

I do agree that Putin would have encouraged/influenced Brexit though, in the hope of splitting the west and in particular nato, but I don’t think that’s happened as everyone appears to be pulling in the same direction on this ?!

 

[David O'Day]

Like Afghanistan knew they couldn't?

Hardly a similar conflict but if you want to use Afghanistan as an example then no the mighty Red Army failed to win in Afghanistan as well

 

[David O'Day]

The weak woke West holds no fears for Putin. Any doubts about that went out the window with Biden's shameful handling of Afghanistan. He will have the backing of China and I believe will push into the Baltic states.

good job you are usually wrong then

 

[Deleted member 9744]

There are indeed. I'm not sure they're "massive" enough to change Lukashenko's thinking (the threat of being strung up by your own people is a powerful argument to ignore them), but they do exist. More to follow, you have to assume.

As you say nothing would change Lukashenko's thinking.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Hardly a similar conflict but if you want to use Afghanistan as an example then no the mighty Red Army failed to win in Afghanistan as well

The withdrawal from Afghanistan was a scandalous failure and showed Putin how weak the West has become.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Come on Tony, I think this is for the other thread. We’ve proven we can remain involved/have an influence in nato which is the main driver for stuff like this. The decisions the government and the city have made in the past about oligarchs etc is nothing to do with Brexit more greed and potential corruption.

I do agree that Putin would have encouraged/influenced Brexit though, in the hope of splitting the west and in particular nato, but I don’t think that’s happened as everyone appears to be pulling in the same direction on this ?!

I sort of agree with you but for many in the upper echelons, especially the likes of JRM, Brexit was all about greed and corruption. Being able to do things that are potentially risky through deregulation that the pesky EU would never allow them to do. We've actively encouraged the investment of these people and hence we are now in a weaker position regarding sanctions because we stand to lose out quite a bit as well. And make no mistake, part of that desire for Russian oligarchs to invest and give money to political players would have been to blunt our chance to respond to situations like this.

Greedy people can't see beyond that greed. Johnson can't see beyond the end of whatever he's doing at that immediate time.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It is not strategically obsolete whatsoever. It is about the only thing that will save us if Putin decides to use nukes.

The guy has lost it mate. I fear he wants to go down in history now and won't stop at nothing. If he gets away with this then what next? I am really disturbed by all of this to be honest.

I’m disturbed by it as well but equally I can do absolutely nothing about it so I’m not worrying too much at the moment. I don’t envy those deciding what the hell to do at all

 

[David O'Day]

The withdrawal from Afghanistan was a scandalous failure and showed Putin how weak the West has become.

Was it fuck

 

[Liquid Gold]

I know this is serious but the thread title is such a joke.

Someone actually thinks the USSR still exists and that they (who Ukraine was a member of) have now attacked themselves?