USSR invades Ukraine. (26 Viewers)

[SBT]

My whole point is there isn’t any arguments that are going to be won on this forum politically as it’s full of people whose views are not representative of the wider public and most who have a view of said wider public have been shouted down and left the debate a long time ago

As for being rude you were engaging pleasantly with O day an Ira worshiping freak whose the most insulting person on the whole forum

Your argument isn’t a political one - your masterplan of “let them get on with it” is shared by cranks across the political spectrum. And your suggestion that it’s a viewpoint shared by the wider public doesn’t seem to be based on any evidence at all. The reality is you’re out of step with public opinion (especially your fellow Tory voters) and your default laissez-faire setting of a few days ago has been made to look silly and naive by the dramatic escalation in violence.

 

---

[PVA]

My whole point is there isn’t any arguments that are going to be won on this forum politically as it’s full of people whose views are not representative of the wider public and most who have a view of said wider public have been shouted down and left the debate a long time ago

As for being rude you were engaging pleasantly with O day an Ira worshiping freak whose the most insulting person on the whole forum

I don’t want to talk too much politics in here as it’s not the right thread, but I don’t know why you expect everyone to share your views and act shocked that most people on here don’t vote Tory.

At the last election 43% of voters voted for the same party as you. So if 57% of people don't share your views why do you expect that the majority of people should agree with you?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

The response from the west so far has been very weak in my opinion. I am not suggesting send in the worlds army, but having some countries in the EU being unable to even support the idea that we take Russia out of SWIFT is absolutely pathetic.

If anyone saw the broadcast from Zelensky, it was harrowing when he was talking about needing help from other countries and said ´honestly, I see no one´. This whole situation is making me really angry to be honest.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

From what I've seen it looks absolutely horrific out there and Putin is just one crazy motherfucker!

At what point will the UK likely get involved, I'm surmising if Russia decide to invade or attack a NATO country?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia.

 

[Grendel]

Your argument isn’t a political one - your masterplan of “let them get on with it” is shared by cranks across the political spectrum. And your suggestion that it’s a viewpoint shared by the wider public doesn’t seem to be based on any evidence at all. The reality is you’re out of step with public opinion (especially your fellow Tory voters) and your default laissez-faire setting of a few days ago has been made to look silly and naive by the dramatic escalation in violence.

I said sanctions don’t work - they won’t and it’s pretty widely accepted there will be no military intervention.

the uk polling is very against any nato intervention.

 

[PVA]

The response from the west so far has been very weak in my opinion. I am not suggesting send in the worlds army, but having some countries in the EU being unable to even support the idea that we take Russia out of SWIFT is absolutely pathetic.

If anyone saw the broadcast from Zelensky, it was harrowing when he was talking about needing help from other countries and said ´honestly, I see no one´. This whole situation is making me really angry to be honest.

Credit to Zelensky, I think his speeches and addresses both to his country and to the world have been incredibly powerful and emotional. You can see what defending his country means to him.

Can’t imagine many leaders, ours in particular, being able to speak with such gravitas and emotion.

There’s rumours of Russia wanting to kill him and his family which is just abhorrent.

 

[Grendel]

I don’t want to talk too much politics in here as it’s not the right thread, but I don’t know why you expect everyone to share your views and act shocked that most people on here don’t vote Tory.

At the last election 43% of voters voted for the same party as you. So if 57% of people don't share your views why do you expect that the majority of people should agree with you?

Lol the majority on here are labour party supporters very distinctly a minority same with brexit in the minority

 

[PVA]

Lol the majority on here are labour party supporters very distinctly a minority same with brexit in the minority

You do struggle with the nuances of English language don't you.

 

[skybluetony176]

The response from the west so far has been very weak in my opinion. I am not suggesting send in the worlds army, but having some countries in the EU being unable to even support the idea that we take Russia out of SWIFT is absolutely pathetic.

If anyone saw the broadcast from Zelensky, it was harrowing when he was talking about needing help from other countries and said ´honestly, I see no one´. This whole situation is making me really angry to be honest.

100% agree. It’s time to turn the sanction amp up to 11. I’m not sure what else Putin needs to do to get to that point. Unexplained wealth orders on all 2500 odd golden visa Russians, the innocent ones will welcome the opportunity to clear their name but in reality you don’t garner enough wealth in Russia to be able to obtain a £2M visa without Putins blessing so to some degree they’re almost certainly going to be Putins oligarchs to some extent. Swift withdrawal with immediate effect. Only learned last night on QT that we haven’t actually sanctioned Putin directly, unbelievable. Sanction The Dumas, every single last one off regardless of how they voted. Immediate seizure all their UK assets.

 

[Liquid Gold]

My whole point is there isn’t any arguments that are going to be won on this forum politically as it’s full of people whose views are not representative of the wider public and most who have a view of said wider public have been shouted down and left the debate a long time ago

As for being rude you were engaging pleasantly with O day an Ira worshiping freak whose the most insulting person on the whole forum

You're engaging with people from a working class city who are interested in a working class sport. The views are pretty consistent for that demographic. If you want some middle class elite to agree with you then you have your drunken wasps login.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

My whole point is there isn’t any arguments that are going to be won on this forum politically as it’s full of people whose views are not representative of the wider public and most who have a view of said wider public have been shouted down and left the debate a long time ago

As for being rude you were engaging pleasantly with O day an Ira worshiping freak whose the most insulting person on the whole forum

I think you put far too much into what you think popular opinion is (consistently it's shown that people support left wing, socialist principled ideas when they're not aware they're socialist or attached to Labour/Liberal/Green etc.)

Besides which, let's have a look at popular opinion over the years, shall we:
- Used to be (and in some places still is) wide belief in creationism and God
- Used to be common belief that the Earth was the centre of the universe and the sun went around it.
- Used to be a widescale belief that black people were an inferior race
- Used to be believed that women were practically useless and only useful for having children
- used to be believed that homosexuality was a heinous crime and those who were deserved to be put to death

Just because the wider public believe something doesn't make them right. And I'd rather be right than popular. We just wait for everyone else to catch up. We're exploring the cosmos while you're in a cave trying to work out fire.

 

[Evo1883]

I said sanctions don’t work - they won’t and it’s pretty widely accepted there will be no military intervention.

the uk polling is very against any nato intervention.

I agree with you , sanctions don't bother Russia, the outcome for Ukraine is grim however we look at this , without military intervention they are done for really , and military intervention would be catastrophic for the globe ... it wont happen , Ukraine are hoping for a putin change of heart and that's their only way out of this

 

[David O'Day]

You're engaging with people from a working class city who are interested in a working class sport. The views are pretty consistent for that demographic. If you want some middle class elite to agree with you then you have your drunken wasps login.

Just ignore the weirdo, the forum would be a much better, much kinder place with a higher level of discourse without him about.

It's pretty sick he has made this thread of all threads about himself,

 

[SBT]

I said sanctions don’t work - they won’t and it’s pretty widely accepted there will be no military intervention.

the uk polling is very against any nato intervention.

And I said that Vladimir Putin will surely appreciate any policy that turns his invasion into a consequence-free cakewalk. You even suggested giving him extra concessions on Ukraine’s future membership of NATO, which would be an excellent advert for Putin continuing this strategy ever westward.

Btw the UK polling shows a majority of Tory voters support sending more troops to NATO members in Eastern Europe right now. Almost everyone agrees on the need for more sanctions. You’re pretty much on your own on this one.

 

[David O'Day]

Just saw an interview with the ex president of Ukraine and he is manning a defensive barricade in Kiev armed with a machine gun.

The bloke is a billionaire and could be anywhere but there, so yeah that was impressive,

 

[tisza]

[QUOTE="skybluetony176, post: 2478376, member: 634 Only learned last night on QT that we haven’t actually sanctioned Putin directly, unbelievable.
[/QUOTE]
Got to wonder whether they are "worried" about direct sanctions on him. Whether it's his "macho" fragility or more worryingly fears about his mental stability.

 

[skybluetony176]

Just saw an interview with the ex president of Ukraine and he is manning a defensive barricade in Kiev armed with a machine gun.

The bloke is a billionaire and could be anywhere but there, so yeah that was impressive,

Can you imagine Trump doing that.

 

[clint van damme]

The response from the west so far has been very weak in my opinion. I am not suggesting send in the worlds army, but having some countries in the EU being unable to even support the idea that we take Russia out of SWIFT is absolutely pathetic.

If anyone saw the broadcast from Zelensky, it was harrowing when he was talking about needing help from other countries and said ´honestly, I see no one´. This whole situation is making me really angry to be honest.

There's two major reasons they're not booting them out of SWIFT.
1. It drives them to use the Chinese system.
2. It will affect Western economies..

When you live in neo Liberal societies reason 2 should not come as surprise.

 

[David O'Day]

Can you imagine Trump doing that.

Trump wouldn't be doing this

 

[David O'Day]

There's two major reasons they're not booting them out of SWIFT.
1. It drives them to use the Chinese system.
2. It will affect Western economies..

When you live in neo Liberal societies reason 2 should not come as surprise.

Yeah listening to an expert, kicking them out of swift won't hurt them as much as some people think

 

[Deleted member 5849]

2. It will affect Western economies..

I did actually wonder if the end game is longer than thought, to push for sanctions as they'll destabilise us too and, after a pandemic, would ferment unrest, allow for a gradual weakening.

 

[tisza]

Just saw an interview with the ex president of Ukraine and he is manning a defensive barricade in Kiev armed with a machine gun.

The bloke is a billionaire and could be anywhere but there, so yeah that was impressive,

Interesting. He's currently on bail for treason for doing business with the separatist states. Current govt been going after him since the last election.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Can you believe there are people that just want Ukraine and Russia to be just “getting on with it” when there are awful scenes like this going on atm

 

[David O'Day]

Interesting. He's currently on bail for treason for doing business with the separatist states. Current govt been going after him since the last election.

Well this is one way to boost the "i'm not a traitor" defense.

The charges were he brought coal from a mine in a separatist area.

He actually return to the country of his own free will to fight the Russians

 

[David O'Day]

Russian's are talking about peace talks. Terms aren't yet right for Ukraine but maybe the fact they are losing far more men than they thought is starting to way on their minds

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

My whole point is there isn’t any arguments that are going to be won on this forum politically as it’s full of people whose views are not representative of the wider public and most who have a view of said wider public have been shouted down and left the debate a long time ago

As for being rude you were engaging pleasantly with O day an Ira worshiping freak whose the most insulting person on the whole forum

Your views on sanctions aren't in line with Tory voters never mind the public

 

[skybluetony176]

Imagine if Corbyn…

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Imagine if Corbyn…

tbf, that quote isn't all that crazy. It would be if he said it yesterday...

 

[Otis]

I said sanctions don’t work - they won’t and it’s pretty widely accepted there will be no military intervention.

the uk polling is very against any nato intervention.

An Oxford university professor said on QT last night that sanctions DO work, but that they can take 10 years TO work. .

 

[David O'Day]

An Oxford university professor said on QT last night that sanctions DO work, but that they can take 10 years TO work. .

Who to believe? An Oxford Professor or a pub bore from Canley?

 

[Otis]

Who to believe? An Oxford Professor or a pub bore from Canley?

He quoted them working both in South Africa and in Poland.

He was adamant that we will beat Putin on this, but we really will have to stick with sanctions long term, so it will be eventually, rather than within a smallish timescale.

 

[tisza]

An Oxford university professor said on QT last night that sanctions DO work, but that they can take 10 years TO work. .

Sanctions they've done so far aren't going to work in a short time. They are an inconvenience to specific people around the Russian leadership. Didn't Biden say we'll review in a month or so? Lot of people can die in a month.
Basically seems sanctions seem to be "not a lot what we can do at the moment if we're not going to get involved militarily".
Basically what the Ukranians are telling the world

 

[Liquid Gold]

They need to isolate Russia as if it were North Korea.

 

[tisza]

They need to isolate Russia as if it were North Korea.

Chinese aren't going to do that. Plus hasn't led to a regime change in North Korea - which in turn as just amped up its nuclear capabilities. And North Korea doesn't have a load of oil and gas that EU for now needs (Germany and Italy in particular)
One outcome of this will be a major shift in energy policy in EU

 

[SBAndy]

Chinese aren't going to do that. Plus hasn't led to a regime change in North Korea - which in turn as just amped up its nuclear capabilities. And North Korea doesn't have a load of oil and gas that EU for now needs (Germany and Italy in particular)
One outcome of this will be a major shift in energy policy in EU

Absolutely required. It’s mad that you’re trading off the goodwill of a madman and are at the behest of his supply mechanisms.