shmmeee
Well-Known Member
So why not add Ukraine to that?
To be clear, you’re saying if a peace agreement is reached that involves the west giving security guarantees to Ukraine you’d say no and scupper those peace talks?
USSR invades Ukraine. (19 Viewers)
- Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
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So why not add Ukraine to that?
To be clear, you’re saying if a peace agreement is reached that involves the west giving security guarantees to Ukraine you’d say no and scupper those peace talks?
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Let's be brutally honest , the world will watch a country fall to save global conflict , save lives and money .. that's the reality .. the fact Ukraine aren't a part of nato affords the world that luxury.. thats the uncomfortable truth
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
That’s the difference for me but Iran and Russia and others don’t agree. They see it as double standards. But I agree it’s a sovereign nation being bombed to shit
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Im not sure how scuppering peace talks in a conflict that’s killing thousands and raising fuel and food prices globally achieves those aims.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
It is yes
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
To be clear , fuel and food were already rising
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
And now they’re rising even more. Do you realise how much food Ukraine supplies to the world?
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Ofcourse but let's not make out we weren't on our way to food poverty pre war
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I think there’s some confusion here about what is being said. Mostly due to Grendels trolling.
I think we should right now be doing everything short of direct military intervention, including cyber attacks and stronger sanctions as well as severe reductions in Russian energy imports, but I also think if Ukraine negotiates a peace treaty contingent on security assurances we (as in democratic nations not the U.K.) should be willing to support that.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
OK I assumed you wanted the world to directly go in and intervene
Marty
Well-Known Member
His argument has changed in the previous 10 minutes. Now he's more concerned with keeping his weight above 20 stone. Keep the vaccines and food flowing boys.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Not right now, no. I think we’ve left it too late to be able to do that. But anything and everything short of that, yes.
Let's be honest Russia will take ukraine eventually, there sheer numbers can mean they just throw 100k troops at a time, but there is no denying Russia have under estimated the resistance hence them resorting to bombing everywhere, just hope a agreement is made before they kill 10s thousands.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
OK fair enough , I'm with you no argument
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I don’t think I’ve ever argued for direct intervention, this current spat came from me saying the proposed peace talks sounded like a good deal and Grendel saying then I should start my basic training and target practice.
They've already committed around 55% of their entire ground forces. That is a huge chunk.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Bastards
Grendel
Well-Known Member
looks like an SBT military retreat to me
Grendel
Well-Known Member
“Grendel trolling”
you literally are 5 years old. I think it started by accusing me of being a coward - a real sane argument - than a bizarre series of rants when you soldiers are there to go to war - felt a bit silly then hastily backtracked
wow you really have true Dunkirk spirit don’t you
oh and I said about serious sanctions and you said I’m being silly as we’d all be cold at night with no heating
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Trolling according to War Hero shmmeee
Grendel
Well-Known Member
we.might.have.a.problem.with.that.as.Crimea.is.occupied.by.a.not.NATO.force
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I think that’s unfair
Iced vanilla mocha maybe
and they’d get PTSD if a copy of the guardian wasn’t available
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
So long as your as critical of those that value Ukraine civilians life below their fellow countrymen because they were unlucky to be born in a different country. Grow up
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Flying Fokker
Well-Known Member
This article on RT via vpn / japan server Article 17:22 16/3/22 Not sure what time zone?
Some hope of a settlement but boy, the Russians have a strange view on who started this most recent conflict.
Details of possible Ukraine peace deal revealed – media
While a Financial Times report suggests a plan to end the conflict is at hand, mixed signals abound
FILE PHOTO: Delegations attend as the second round of Russia-Ukraine peace talks in Brest, Belarus, March 3, 2022. © Getty Images / Foreign Ministry of Belarus
Ukraine and Russia have taken steps toward a “15-point peace plan” that would see Russian forces withdraw in exchange for a pledge of neutrality by Ukraine, the Financial Times reported on Wednesday. However, sticking points remain, and both sides have issued mixed statements on the prospects of imminent peace.
Citing three people involved in negotiations, the news outlet said that a deal was being worked out whereby Ukraine would renounce its ambitions to join NATO – a move that would require changing the country’s constitution – and refusing to host any foreign military bases or weapons in exchange for security guarantees from the US, UK, and Turkey.
Russia would cease hostilities and withdraw its forces from Ukrainian territory in exchange for this neutrality pledge, while Ukraine would be allowed to keep its army, the newspaper reported.
People involved in the deal told the paper that Russian-speakers in Ukraine would receive guarantees that their language rights and other humanitarian concerns would be safeguarded, although Ukrainian negotiator Mykhailo Podolyak said that Kiev would only agree to this if these issues were in line with “Ukraine’s exclusive interests.”
Likewise, the status of Crimea – which voted to rejoin Russia in 2014 – and the Donbass republics – recognized by Russian President Vladimir Putin two days before the outbreak of hostilities last month – remain sticking points toward any deal.
With talks ongoing, Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov on Wednesday called it “premature to disclose any sets of agreements.” However, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told reporters that both sides were “close” to agreeing to “absolutely specific wordings” in the negotiations.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has repeatedly stated that he is ready to talk directly with Putin to bring about a settlement, but Lavrov told reporters on Wednesday that the Ukrainian leader has yet to take any further steps. Putin, he said, has declared his willingness to talk, but Zelensky has made statements like this for the sake of “publicity,” he added.
While Zelensky has talked up his willingness to meet with Putin, and conceded on Tuesday that Ukraine will not be allowed to join NATO, he has nevertheless continued to lobby Western leaders to intervene in the conflict. In a video address to US lawmakers on Wednesday, he reiterated calls for a NATO-enforced “no-fly zone” over Ukraine, even though the Biden administration and NATO leadership have stated that this could possibly lead to a direct confrontation with Russia.
And while Putin has previously accused Zelensky of “not showing a serious commitment to finding mutually acceptable solutions,” Lavrov on Wednesday praised the Ukrainian leader’s “change of rhetoric” on NATO membership.
Moscow attacked its neighbor in late February, following a seven-year standoff over Ukraine’s failure to implement the terms of the Minsk agreements, and Russia’s eventual recognition of the Donbass republics in Donetsk and Lugansk. The German- and French-brokered protocols were designed to regularize the status of those regions within the Ukrainian state.
Russia has now demanded that Ukraine officially declare itself a neutral country that will never join NATO. Kiev insists the Russian offensive was completely unprovoked and has denied claims it was planning to retake the two republics by force.
An another thing... The narrative on their live bulletins is unbelievable. They describe 'guerilla' forces attacking convoys of humanitarian aid, locals being rounded up after they have been seen filming the convoys. Attacks from forests. Russian forces partially forced Ukranian forces out of areas in Mauripol.
Rolling footage of the conflict in Donbass in 2015 and the local's hatred of Kiev. Mass evacuation of Russian speaking citizens in 2015 and following Militia in conflict against Ukrainian forces.
Some hope of a settlement but boy, the Russians have a strange view on who started this most recent conflict.
Details of possible Ukraine peace deal revealed – media
While a Financial Times report suggests a plan to end the conflict is at hand, mixed signals abound
FILE PHOTO: Delegations attend as the second round of Russia-Ukraine peace talks in Brest, Belarus, March 3, 2022. © Getty Images / Foreign Ministry of Belarus
Ukraine and Russia have taken steps toward a “15-point peace plan” that would see Russian forces withdraw in exchange for a pledge of neutrality by Ukraine, the Financial Times reported on Wednesday. However, sticking points remain, and both sides have issued mixed statements on the prospects of imminent peace.
Citing three people involved in negotiations, the news outlet said that a deal was being worked out whereby Ukraine would renounce its ambitions to join NATO – a move that would require changing the country’s constitution – and refusing to host any foreign military bases or weapons in exchange for security guarantees from the US, UK, and Turkey.
Russia would cease hostilities and withdraw its forces from Ukrainian territory in exchange for this neutrality pledge, while Ukraine would be allowed to keep its army, the newspaper reported.
People involved in the deal told the paper that Russian-speakers in Ukraine would receive guarantees that their language rights and other humanitarian concerns would be safeguarded, although Ukrainian negotiator Mykhailo Podolyak said that Kiev would only agree to this if these issues were in line with “Ukraine’s exclusive interests.”
Likewise, the status of Crimea – which voted to rejoin Russia in 2014 – and the Donbass republics – recognized by Russian President Vladimir Putin two days before the outbreak of hostilities last month – remain sticking points toward any deal.
With talks ongoing, Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov on Wednesday called it “premature to disclose any sets of agreements.” However, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told reporters that both sides were “close” to agreeing to “absolutely specific wordings” in the negotiations.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has repeatedly stated that he is ready to talk directly with Putin to bring about a settlement, but Lavrov told reporters on Wednesday that the Ukrainian leader has yet to take any further steps. Putin, he said, has declared his willingness to talk, but Zelensky has made statements like this for the sake of “publicity,” he added.
While Zelensky has talked up his willingness to meet with Putin, and conceded on Tuesday that Ukraine will not be allowed to join NATO, he has nevertheless continued to lobby Western leaders to intervene in the conflict. In a video address to US lawmakers on Wednesday, he reiterated calls for a NATO-enforced “no-fly zone” over Ukraine, even though the Biden administration and NATO leadership have stated that this could possibly lead to a direct confrontation with Russia.
And while Putin has previously accused Zelensky of “not showing a serious commitment to finding mutually acceptable solutions,” Lavrov on Wednesday praised the Ukrainian leader’s “change of rhetoric” on NATO membership.
Moscow attacked its neighbor in late February, following a seven-year standoff over Ukraine’s failure to implement the terms of the Minsk agreements, and Russia’s eventual recognition of the Donbass republics in Donetsk and Lugansk. The German- and French-brokered protocols were designed to regularize the status of those regions within the Ukrainian state.
Russia has now demanded that Ukraine officially declare itself a neutral country that will never join NATO. Kiev insists the Russian offensive was completely unprovoked and has denied claims it was planning to retake the two republics by force.
An another thing... The narrative on their live bulletins is unbelievable. They describe 'guerilla' forces attacking convoys of humanitarian aid, locals being rounded up after they have been seen filming the convoys. Attacks from forests. Russian forces partially forced Ukranian forces out of areas in Mauripol.
Rolling footage of the conflict in Donbass in 2015 and the local's hatred of Kiev. Mass evacuation of Russian speaking citizens in 2015 and following Militia in conflict against Ukrainian forces.
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
well people only value said lives as long as they can sit at home - as Shmmeee says he’s got skills elsewhere - In other words at home and other less superior beings can do tbe nasty fighting
I’m honest - it’s a real world situation which we have no more part in than legally or morally than other conflicts across the world. We have to care as they are European (so Africans I guess less so)
Nope we are scared as it might impact us. We don’t value Ukraine lives at all in terms of the impact in their country. We certainly wouldn’t if it was the killing fields in Asia
duffer
Well-Known Member
What an arsehole thing to say. Are you 14 or something?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
You would and do and I would and do. I’m also pretty certain most on here do too
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I assume you also will not be volunteering - you even wanted a no fly zone which would escalate it to world war 3!
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I wouldn’t want us as a nation to military do a thing about it
Flying Fokker
Well-Known Member
It looks like there is a lot of money going back towards Russia. (People taking money back into the country or speculators? ) The rouble has risen 25% against the massive falls last week.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
You quite literally sound like Putin
And it’s an oat milk latte thanks, but not from Costa, their coffee is shite.