Do you want to discuss boring politics? (255 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

But regardless of what you think about Starmer, if you think he isn't left leaning enough, or if you think Corbyn is better... Labour with Starmer is clearly preferable to the Tories.

So if the three choices are:

A) vote Tory
B) vote Labour
C) none of the above because you don't like Starmer/he's not Jeremy Corbyn, most likely resulting in a Tory government

Why would you choose C? That's just cutting your nose off to spite your face.

In my constituency the Greens may well have a shout and locally have served us pretty well. For the council elections the Labour candidates knocked on our door to berate us for not voting for them. The party leader laughs at my profession and laughs at Labour strongholds. He's eminently unlikeable.

He won't learn if he does that and gets the votes anyway.

 

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[PVA]

He won't learn if he does that and gets the votes anyway.

OK let's not vote for him to teach him a lesson then.

... And while he learns his lesson the whole country suffers under the Tories. Again.

Edit: yeah if the greens have a chance then by all means vote for them

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

OK let's not vote for him to teach him a lesson then.

... And while he learns his lesson the whole country suffers under the Tories. Again.

Edit: yeah if the greens have a chance then by all means vote for them

Here I think they will. All I'm asking for is more than 'he isn't Boris'

 

[PVA]

Here I think they will. All I'm asking for is more than 'he isn't Boris'

I get that. We'd all like more.

But at the moment just not being Boris is better than Boris. So that's our best option. Otherwise it's Boris again.

That's why I voted Corbyn.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I get that. We'd all like more.

But at the moment just not being Boris is better than Boris. So that's our best option. Otherwise it's Boris again.

And that in a nutshell is why if it was up to me I'd have emigrated a few years back

 

[PVA]

And that in a nutshell is why if it was up to me I'd have emigrated a few years back

Ah man me too.

 

[skybluetony176]

Personally I feel it doesn’t matter who you vote for so long as it isn’t the Tories. It’s not even Boris. I despair at the state of the Tory party, I’m really starting to struggle to see Boris make the next election and whoever replaces him is equally awful, just in a different way. I look at the current favourites to replace him and pray Hunt gets the job. HUNT! Even when I last considered voting Tory I would see Hunt and think what a c**t, how did he get a job in the cabinet. He’s now the best that the Tories got to offer. HUNT! Rhymes with c**t.

So anyway. Use you vote wisely. Anyone but Tory. If Lib Dems is most likely to take the seat, fuck it, vote for them. If labour are most likely then vote for them. Anything is going to be an improvement.

Unfortunately I live in a safe Tory seat so it probably won’t matter who I vote for. I’ll consider it nearer the time as you never know but I feel I’ll probably end up voting Green. If it feels like there’s a chance of getting Mark Pawsey out I’ll probably vote for whoever is most likely to put him to the sword, which will most likely be Labour going by past elections.

 

[rob9872]

We've not even started to get the GE machine in swing yet being mid-term and after all that's gone on and the hatred for Boris and all things Tory, partygate, the pandemic etc etc, polls still show that Starmer would still need the SNP to prop up his government. It's a telling indictment.

I'd be amazed if there isn't a minimum of a hung parliament although expect a Conservative majority, albeit smaller margin than 2019. I certainly wouldn't be lumping any hard earned on a Labour victory at this moment in time.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

No she wanted Boris Johnson to win the election

I assume you voted for the - according to you - the anti Semite mr Corbyn

It is OK to criticise the psychotic Israeli government. That does not make you anti semetic.

 

[skybluetony176]

It is OK to criticise the psychotic Israeli government. That does not make you anti semetic

If it did it would mean masses Orthodox Jews and all ultra-orthodox Jews are anti semitic. Most of who see the mere creation of the Israeli state as a direct threat to god. That’s how ridiculous it is to attach criticism of Israel to being some sort of anti semite.

 

[skybluetony176]

Good old Pritti. Record investment yes but following record cuts. The cuts being bigger than the investment so budgets haven’t even been restored to where they were let alone caught up with where they would have been had the trend of investment been allowed to carry on at the time the cuts started.

 

[PVA]

This is basically 'we aren't doing anything more to ease the cost of living crisis, but let's at least pretend we are'.

Wankers.

 

[fernandopartridge]

This is basically 'we aren't doing anything more to ease the cost of living crisis, but let's at least pretend we are'.

Wankers.

Austerity is entirely incompatible with a vibrant economy, where the fuck do these people think money originates from? It doesn't come out of thin air from we entrepreneurs

 

[shmmeee]

And of course Corbyn et al should have done similar... and so it goes on, while the Tories laugh and win.

And nowhere are the voters mentioned.

We've not even started to get the GE machine in swing yet being mid-term and after all that's gone on and the hatred for Boris and all things Tory, partygate, the pandemic etc etc, polls still show that Starmer would still need the SNP to prop up his government. It's a telling indictment.

I'd be amazed if there isn't a minimum of a hung parliament although expect a Conservative majority, albeit smaller margin than 2019. I certainly wouldn't be lumping any hard earned on a Labour victory at this moment in time.

A Labour majority would require the greatest swing in history pretty much. You don’t come back from a defeat like 2019 in one shot even with a Tony Blair face mask and a one way ticket to 1996.

The fantasy you guys have about being cucked by the SNP is bollocks though. They’ll vote against the Tories or they’ll get eaten alive by their voter base so no need for any deals.

If it’s Johnson vs Starmer my moneys on a Labour minority govt at the moment. Polling is all very positive, lots of don’t knows among women who are likely to break Labour as well as strong personal ratings and issue rating like best PM and best on economy too.

The fact that we’re possibly two years off and you and Grendel are already in damage control mode shows how well Starmers done TBH.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

And nowhere are the voters mentioned.


A Labour majority would require the greatest swing in history pretty much. You don’t come back from a defeat like 2019 in one shot even with a Tony Blair face mask and a one way ticket to 1996.

The fantasy you guys have about being cucked by the SNP is bollocks though. They’ll vote against the Tories or they’ll get eaten alive by their voter base so no need for any deals.

If it’s Johnson vs Starmer my moneys on a Labour minority govt at the moment. Polling is all very positive, lots of don’t knows among women who are likely to break Labour as well as strong personal ratings and issue rating like best PM and best on economy too.

The fact that we’re possibly two years off and you and Grendel are already in damage control mode shows how well Starmers done TBH.

So Smarmer will lose but lose ‘well’ like Corbyn did in 2017 and it will be hailed as a triumph, also like Corbyn. Exciting times.

 

[shmmeee]

So Smarmer will lose but lose ‘well’ like Corbyn did in 2017 and it will be hailed as a triumph, also like Corbyn. Exciting times.

With the small difference that he’d be PM and have the ability to deliver a Labour legislative program, yes. Other than that just like Corbyn.

 

[Grendel]

With the small difference that he’d be PM and have the ability to deliver a Labour legislative program, yes. Other than that just like Corbyn.

Which will require him to agree a vote on Scottish independence and probably in the interim have Ian Blackford in the cabinet

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

With the small difference that he’d be PM and have the ability to deliver a Labour legislative program, yes. Other than that just like Corbyn.

Even in this fantasy scenario of a minority government he’s still beholden to the SNP and perhaps the Lib Dems. Assuming of course that he wouldn’t have any rebels in his own party.

Exciting.

 

[Grendel]

Even in this fantasy scenario of a minority government he’s still beholden to the SNP and perhaps the Lib Dems. Assuming of course that he wouldn’t have any rebels in his own party.

Exciting.

I doubt the handful of Lib Dem’s left will have a formal coalition again sturgeon and co however would love the chance to get a foot in U.K. policy decisions

 

[shmmeee]

Even in this fantasy scenario of a minority government he’s still beholden to the SNP and perhaps the Lib Dems. Assuming of course that he wouldn’t have any rebels in his own party.

Exciting.

If by fantasy scenario you mean “what the seat predictors are showing based on current polling”, then yes.

What Labour policies do you see the LDs and SNP rejecting exactly?

You really are taking this sulk to the next level.

 

[shmmeee]

Which will require him to agree a vote on Scottish independence and probably in the interim have Ian Blackford in the cabinet

Do you need a primer in U.K. politics and what a minority government means and how it’s different from a coalition?

 

[Grendel]

If by fantasy scenario you mean “what the seat predictors are showing based on current polling”, then yes.

What Labour policies do you see the LDs and SNP rejecting exactly?

You really are taking this sulk to the next level.

The SNP would demand a referendum and Starmer I’m sure has said no so there’s a policy difference for a start - and a pretty big one

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If by fantasy scenario you mean “what the seat predictors are showing based on current polling”, then yes.

What Labour policies do you see the LDs and SNP rejecting exactly?

You really are taking this sulk to the next level.

We are years away from an election where Johnson will likely have been binned off at a convenient time for a more acceptable alternative to come in place. The SNP in particular will demand a high price for their support and the obvious cost would be allowing indyref2.

With most key matters already devolved to them they can simply sit out the votes affecting England only. If I’m sulking it’s not about Corbyn but about the best out country coming up with being a criminal and a shrivelled wet lettuce saying ‘I’m not him’.

 

[Grendel]

Do you need a primer in U.K. politics and what a minority government means and how it’s different from a coalition?

if the snp hold any balance of power they will only offer any minority government support if Starmer allows a referendum or they will bring him down on day one

If you can’t see that I think you need the primer not me

 

[Grendel]

Funnily enough in that scenario I doubt the tories would care. Minority governments propped up by other parties tends to end very very badly

 

[rob9872]

Take Sturgeon and and give her independence. Not only damaging the economy and breaking up the union, but will be unforgivable, not to mention the reduced seats in the house meaning you can look forward to 20 years of Conservative government to follow.

Rule Britannia

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Take Sturgeon and and give her independence. Not only damaging the economy and breaking up the union, but will be unforgivable, not to mention the reduced seats in the house meaning you can look forward to 20 years of Conservative government to follow.

Rule Britannia

I mean you have some brass neck yourself talking about the union when the ruling party has destabilised it on an unholy scale.

 

[Grendel]

I mean you have some brass neck yourself talking about the union when the ruling party has destabilised it on an unholy scale.

I doubt the Scot’s would ever cross the line anyway whoever is in charge of Westminster and the SNP only really have had prominence due to labours collapse there.

It’s not really the issue. Starmer somehow has to defend a policy of no referendum against an SNP who will say they will not support a minority government unless they give her exactly that.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I doubt the Scot’s would ever cross the line anyway whoever is in charge of Westminster and the SNP only really have had prominence due to labours collapse there.

It’s not really the issue. Starmer somehow has to defend a policy of no referendum against an SNP who will say they will not support a minority government unless they give her exactly that.

The Scots remain very closely split between the two options-a strong pro independence campaign may well tip the balance. We already know that Brexit has sent NI on a firm path to Irish unity, just a question of time.

All assuming of course that Starmer gets his minority government of which I remain doubtful.

 

[PVA]

Funnily enough in that scenario I doubt the tories would care. Minority governments propped up by other parties tends to end very very badly

Ah yes. The Tories definitely wouldn't care about losing an 80 seat majority. No siree. I mean it's not like they're doing everything they can to try and rig the next election in their favour. Oh wait.

 

[shmmeee]

The SNP would demand a referendum and Starmer I’m sure has said no so there’s a policy difference for a start - and a pretty big one

So what? They’d demand and then what? As I say if they vote with the Tories they won’t have many voters left.

You and BSB seem to be concocting this fantasy scenario where apparently SNP, LD and a bunch of Labour backbenchers conspire to bring down a Labour government and install the Tories because…Starmer isn’t Corbyn??

You taken your meds today?

 

[shmmeee]

Funnily enough in that scenario I doubt the tories would care. Minority governments propped up by other parties tends to end very very badly

Yes like the last one that *checks notes* won a massive fucking majority at the next election.

Seriously though, enjoying this 2015 redux, when can we expect your thoughts on the EdStone or whether we should have a Brexit referendum?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So what? They’d demand and then what? As I say if they vote with the Tories they won’t have many voters left.

You and BSB seem to be concocting this fantasy scenario where apparently SNP, LD and a bunch of Labour backbenchers conspire to bring down a Labour government and install the Tories because…Starmer isn’t Corbyn??

You taken your meds today?

Given how few of the policies would impact Scotland they could safely abstain.

 

[skybluetony176]

I don’t buy this the SNP will demand another referendum scare story anymore than I thought the Lib Dems would demand free University education for all before entering into a coalition with the Tories.

As someone eluded too the alternative would be let the Tories in which their voter base would never forgive them for. Or back to the polls which may also prove devastating for the SNP as they lose votes to labour having failed to agree to a coalition proving themselves to be a wasted vote. I don’t think the SNP has the power many assume they have. I wouldn’t actually be surprised if they and the Scottish Tories lose seats to labour at the next GE anyway.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Which will require him to agree a vote on Scottish independence and probably in the interim have Ian Blackford in the cabinet

I'd take that vote. With a Labour govt it means staying in the Union would almost certainly win, and then we'd see the decline of the SNP with no real purpose to them.