Do you want to discuss boring politics? (130 Viewers)

[Ian1779]

I still think Labour majority is most likely. Next 12 months Labour/Starmer need to start ramping up policy though

I genuinely believe that there is absolutely no chance of that happening unless Starmer had a total and utter transformation of policy, ideas and approach.
I think turnout will drop at the next election and it will benefit the Tories.

 

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[CCFCSteve]

The main concern I have with Johnson's ideology is it's more attuned to what's best for him, and there are definite signs he's had to align himself with ERG mentalists in order to keep power. What he's always shown is he's been prepared to sacrifice his principles for himself time and again.

The 'traditional' Johnson, ideologically, isn't overly repulsive to left-of-centre. The one in the pocket of the ERG is possibly the worst of all worlds however, that he's both incompetent, *and* reactionary!

The strange thing is that ERG part is relatively small….but noisy !

 

[CCFCSteve]

I genuinely believe that there is absolutely no chance of that happening unless Starmer had a total and utter transformation of policy, ideas and approach.

Yeah, it was a typo, meant minority..as I say though, starmer needs to start laying out policy now

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The strange thing is that ERG part is relatively small….but noisy !

Wields more power than it should, but is also organised better. Same as run-up to last election, and last election really. 'Progressive' parties (and liberal Tories in parliament) had the majority, but couldn't organise themselves in any effective way to push through a successful policy or election.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Wields more power than it should, but is also organised better. Same as run-up to last election, and last election really. 'Progressive' parties (and liberal Tories in parliament) had the majority, but couldn't organise themselves in any effective way to push through a successful policy or election.

It can be done but they need to stop listening to themselves on Twitter and get out there to understand what the public want/think

 

[Ian1779]

Yeah, it was a typo, meant minority..as I say though, starmer needs to start laying out policy now

2 things that have happened this week will impact on Labour that we’ve touched on here.
Firstly the very clear switch of focus by the Mail to go after Starmer/Rayner with what at present are unsubstantiated claims. It won’t matter if they are not true to their readers - it been told to them and that’s good enough. These are some of the people Labour are attempting to court as potential voters.
Secondly was the unfathomable decision by them to abstain in the House of Lords votes which will sit very uncomfortably with people in their existing voting bloc, especially when we start to see the impact of that later down the line.

 

[clint van damme]

If I said Johnson was a liberal then certain posters on here would laugh and guffaw as he’s perceived by some as far right

Of course if he had all his own way he’d be spending like a drunken sailor but there are some constraints

It’s no different really to people who really believed in Corbyn now voting for someone whose more aligned to David Cameron and Boris Johnson than the person he apparently was named after

More so the person who I assume would run the economic policy. Rachel Reeves is far more Nigel Lawson than John McDonnell. She’s a Tory plant I’m sure

You're right about Reeves.
I think she's a decent politician, she lands more blows on the Tories when interviewed than Starmer but shes far too right wing for a Labour shadow chancellor in my opinion.

 

[Grendel]

2 things that have happened this week will impact on Labour that we’ve touched on here.
Firstly the very clear switch of focus by the Mail to go after Starmer/Rayner with what at present are unsubstantiated claims. It won’t matter if they are not true to their readers - it been told to them and that’s good enough. These are some of the people Labour are attempting to court as potential voters.
Secondly was the unfathomable decision by them to abstain in the House of Lords votes which will sit very uncomfortably with people in their existing voting bloc.

Well it’s true rayner was at the event the party has previously denied she attended

 

[clint van damme]

2 things that have happened this week will impact on Labour that we’ve touched on here.
Firstly the very clear switch of focus by the Mail to go after Starmer/Rayner with what at present are unsubstantiated claims. It won’t matter if they are not true to their readers - it been told to them and that’s good enough. These are some of the people Labour are attempting to court as potential voters.
Secondly was the unfathomable decision by them to abstain in the House of Lords votes which will sit very uncomfortably with people in their existing voting bloc, especially when we start to see the impact of that later down the line.

Probably connected to the noises Labour have been making about non dom status. Think the mail owner is non dom.

 

[Ian1779]

Well it’s true rayner was at the event the party has previously denied she attended

Yes - it seemed a silly thing to have previously denied. Saying it was said in ‘error’ gives the Mail all the ammo it needs

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It can be done but they need to stop listening to themselves on Twitter and get out there to understand what the public want/think

%ages suggest they actually have that.

However, that's where Ashdown was very successful as a politician. The Liberal vote didn't really change from David Steel days (it might even have gone down, once!) but he targeted seats they had a fighting chance of winning as he knew that influence was not possible without representation.

That's the main thing.

Oh, and stop Labour strategists trying to make people clones of Blair. Blair was good at that, but Brown's USP wasn't that he was a fake Blair, it was that he was a conviction politician with a strong intellect. Likewise with Ed Milliband really. Starmer's USP is that he *is* actually left-of-centre in his traditional views, has worked hard to get where he is, is a good intellectual debater... and is competent. Let him do that, but let him show himself, too.

And let Rayner go around calling Johnson a twat!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Secondly was the unfathomable decision by them to abstain in the House of Lords votes.

I'd love to know what the rhyme of reason for that is. Has anyone actually said the logic?!?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You're right about Reeves.
I think she's a decent politician, she lands more blows on the Tories when interviewed than Starmer but shes far too right wing for a Labour shadow chancellor in my opinion.

I guess Dennis Healey was relatively right for his time when he was chancellor. Perceived fiscal competence sells, the uncomfortable balance is not giving away so much that you can't claw back the wrongs done by this government.

 

[PVA]

Well it’s true rayner was at the event the party has previously denied she attended

Well that's the crux of it really.

A Labour spokesperson mistakenly said Rayner wasn't there.

No laws or rules were broken so the best the Tories have got is that the Labour spokesperson made a mistake.

Big wow. Lock them up and throw away the key.

 

[CCFCSteve]

You're right about Reeves.
I think she's a decent politician, she lands more blows on the Tories when interviewed than Starmer but shes far too right wing for a Labour shadow chancellor in my opinion.

She’s talked a lot of sense when I’ve heard he speak. Comes across as credible and decent background for the job…not necessarily the case with all MPs !

 

[skybluetony176]

If I said Johnson was a liberal then certain posters on here would laugh and guffaw as he’s perceived by some as far right

Of course if he had all his own way he’d be spending like a drunken sailor but there are some constraints

It’s no different really to people who really believed in Corbyn now voting for someone whose more aligned to David Cameron and Boris Johnson than the person he apparently was named after

More so the person who I assume would run the economic policy. Rachel Reeves is far more Nigel Lawson than John McDonnell. She’s a Tory plant I’m sure

Most people perceive Johnson as a what ever way the wind is blowing. Just so happened to have been blowing far right the last 5 or so years. Heseltine was bang on. Boris is the sort of politician that looks to see which way the crowd is going, runs to the front and says follow me.

 

[shmmeee]

It's ludicrous though. Johnson ain't a Tory in his traditional spending ideas. In fact, the idea of raising taxes and spunking cash sounds good to this particular lefty! If he wasn't such a workshy two-faced buffoon, he'd be the type of Tory I could tolerate, in fact... apart from his pact with the ERG devil that pushes him right, of course.

But I don't see why any sane person who's disposed to voting Tory would want him there, given his incompetence and traditional deviation from Tory cuts to everything mantra, bar the fact he's unfathomably popular with some who see him as a man of the people.

*Which* people maybe ought to be considered, however!

Johnson voters tend to be left wing economically and socially conservative. Classic fund the NHS and hang the pedos demographic.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Classic fund the NHS and hang the pedos demographic.

Can’t disagree with those policies

 

[shmmeee]

Can’t disagree with those policies

They are the majority view of the country.

 

[CCFCSteve]

They are the majority view of the country.

Add legalise certain drugs to the manifesto and you’ve got my vote shmmeee

 

[fernandopartridge]

Why on earth do Starmer and co kowtow to the right wing press in this country

 

[Philosoraptor]

Why on earth do Starmer and co kowtow to the right wing press in this country

The comment section on Twitter is a joy to read.

 

[duffer]

It would be crazy for Starmer and Rayner to be issued with a FPN/resign for having a beer at work with colleagues who they were working with all the time, as it was for Johnson and Sunak on Johnson’s birthday. I’ve always felt these ‘events’ are subjective and open to interpretation

The police have dug themselves a massive hole here by setting the bar so low, potentially as have Labour by majoring on partygate saying Johnson and Sunak should resign after those first FPNs

The ‘BYO booze event’ looks and sounds like a party where fines should be issued

I'm sorry but I've got to disagree, it's absolutely not a 'low bar'.

Let's just say again what the rest of the country was doing: Not visiting their family in care homes, not being able to comfort loved ones who were dying in hospital, not being allowed to go to funerals.

The bare minimum that we should demand from our politicians is that they follow the same laws as us, especially when in Boris's case they were on TV every night stating, quite correctly, how important they were. Starmer, you may recall, gave his unalloyed support for the policy.

The law is the law, the police don't deserve to be criticised for enforcing it.

Starmer's point isn't just about Boris's FPN, it's also about the catalogue of lies that Boris told Parliament regarding it.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I'm sorry but I've got to disagree, it's absolutely not a 'low bar'.

Let's just say again what the rest of the country was doing: Not visiting their family in care homes, not being able to comfort loved ones who were dying in hospital, not being allowed to go to funerals.

The bare minimum that we should demand from our politicians is that they follow the same laws as us, especially when in Boris's case they were on TV every night stating, quite correctly, how important they were. Starmer, you may recall, gave his unalloyed support for the policy.

The law is the law, the police don't deserve to be criticised for enforcing it.

Starmer's point isn't just about Boris's FPN, it's also about the catalogue of lies that Boris told Parliament regarding it.

The thing is that if he didn't think he was breaking rules (though as PM he really should!) then he would tell the truth about what happened because he wouldn't think there was anything wrong with his actions.

The fact he consistently lies, changes his story and deflects tells you he knows what he did was wrong.

 

[CCFCSteve]

I'm sorry but I've got to disagree, it's absolutely not a 'low bar'.

Let's just say again what the rest of the country was doing: Not visiting their family in care homes, not being able to comfort loved ones who were dying in hospital, not being allowed to go to funerals.

The bare minimum that we should demand from our politicians is that they follow the same laws as us, especially when in Boris's case they were on TV every night stating, quite correctly, how important they were. Starmer, you may recall, gave his unalloyed support for the policy.

The law is the law, the police don't deserve to be criticised for enforcing it.

Starmer's point isn't just about Boris's FPN, it's also about the catalogue of lies that Boris told Parliament regarding it.

As I mention in the post when I said low bar I was talking only about the initial fines issued….if it’s true what I’ve read and heard

I suppose I put myself in the polices position. They go to a place of work during the pandemic because someone’s called them. They enter the building during the working day and ask if everyone works there, everyone proves they do and that they been pretty much every day during the pandemic. There is no law to say you can’t drink or eat what you want at work as far as I’m aware. From memory there would’ve been no law about how many people can work in a room together etc etc. Would/could fines be issued ?

From a legal standpoint I think it is up to interpretation whether a fine could/should be issued in such circumstances, hence my low bar comment. I doubt any similar workplace fines were issued during the pandemic and by doing so, it brings Starmers beer into question. As I’ve said it would be ridiculous for him to be issued with a FPN under such circumstances

If there are other parties where it’s been organised by email, ‘BYO booze’ or out of hours, people coming from home just for event or people don’t work there etc etc, that’s a totally different story as I said before. In these cases fines are far clearer and should be issued. I was talking only about those specific fines that have been issued making it a low bar

Ps I caveat all of the above with the fact that I haven’t seen photos of the ‘birthday’ so if there was some kind of party going on, I might change my view

 

[David O'Day]

Boris basically said a pensioner who uses her Freedom Pass to ride around on bues all day to keep warm should be grateful as her brought in Freedom Passes.

It's the oxford debating skill

 

[skybluetony176]

Boris basically said a pensioner who uses her Freedom Pass to ride around on bues all day to keep warm should be grateful as her brought in Freedom Passes.

It's the oxford debating skill

Sounds like University of Bristol debating skills trump Oxford debating skills. Not seen the interview yet but by all accounts she tore him a new arsehole.

 

[David O'Day]

Sounds like University of Bristol debating skills trump Oxford debating skills. Not seen the interview yet but by all accounts she tore him a new arsehole.

Also crucially for swing voters he didn't seem to know who Lorraine Kelly is

 

[PVA]

Boris basically said a pensioner who uses her Freedom Pass to ride around on bues all day to keep warm should be grateful as her brought in Freedom Passes.

It's the oxford debating skill

And that was a lie (shock), he didn't bring them in.

 

[skybluetony176]

And that was a lie (shock), he didn't bring them in.

Apparently just reintroduced them for certain age groups after they was cut by Tory austerity. Also the case in question the woman was in an age group that wasn’t effected by those cuts so he can’t even claim he’s “benefitted” this lady directly. Either way it’s like claiming Mussolini did a good job because the trains ran on time.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Roe v Wade: US Supreme Court may overturn abortion rights, leak suggests

Millions could lose the legal right to abortion this summer, a leaked Supreme Court document shows.

www.bbc.co.uk

Backwards pricks

 

[clint van damme]

Roe v Wade: US Supreme Court may overturn abortion rights, leak suggests

Millions could lose the legal right to abortion this summer, a leaked Supreme Court document shows.

www.bbc.co.uk

Backwards pricks

Every life is sacred, (say people who demand rhe right to be armed to the teeth and to go around shooting folk).

 

[skybluetony176]

Every life is sacred, (say people who demand rhe right to be armed to the teeth and to go around shooting folk).

The same people pushing the abortion agenda always seem to be pro death penalty also. Go figure.

 

[David O'Day]

Every life is sacred, (say people who demand rhe right to be armed to the teeth and to go around shooting folk).

the democrats now need to go nuclear and either pack the court or kill the filibuster and pass abortion legislation

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Can you imagine a situation where women are dying having back street abortions in the leading democracy in the world? Oh my. Don’t get me wrong there are far too many abortions but safe access is really a bottom line and as for anyone other than the mum having an opinion on what she does with her body well bugger me