Do you want to discuss boring politics? (19 Viewers)

[SBT]

Their trans status is irrelevant, these women have no issue with “trans men” attending womens sports (subject to doping law), prisons, spaces. It’s men they have a problem with. They see it as yet another “Not all men are like that”/“I’m one of the nice guys”.

So again, the suggestion being that women should be inherently suspicious of a trans women having an untoward motivation for transitioning in the first place?

 

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[clint van damme]

Why is being exposed to a stranger’s vagina more OK than someone’s surgically altered genitalia? Or are we arguing this from a heteronormative standpoint where women have no sexual interest in other women?

Its not just about altered genetalia is it?

 

[Sick Boy]

I'm thinking more about the female community, (the ones without a cock and bollocks).

That last remark is flippant, I feel for anyone who feels trapped in the wrong gender body but I still feel the feelings of women in general should be paramount.

If you don't mind me asking, have you got daughters?

If I had a daughter I’d be much more worried about widespread casual sexual assault from men, personally.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Its not just about altered genetalia is it?

Well I’ve been asking for some time what it really is about and not getting a direct answer. I was told it wasn’t about assault yet that seems heavily implored in most of the responses.

 

[shmmeee]

Isn’t all of this something which has originated from an American culture war?

No. They’re far more supportive that we are. We get called “TERF Island”. Because U.K. feminism is more rooted in materialism thanks to its socialist roots here, whereas American feminism is more liberal and third wave. Also we don’t tend to buy magical ideas about self actualisation like the Yanks do.

This all kicked off when the govt put out a consultation about bringing in self identification. Labour started kicking out women who disagreed with it, that sparked up a lot of feminists from the 60s/70s/80s/90s who are quite prominent in Labour. Then the Tories saw what a wedge issue it was, plus it got boosted on social media by the right in the states, and here we are.

Sadly the Tories have IMO beaten Labour to a moderate centre ground position on this. They’re nowhere near the Republican position. The Dem/Labour position is a minority one once you dig past the slogans and a vote loser because it presents endless media opportunities to make Labour politicians look fucking stupid live on air.

 

[SBT]

I'm thinking more about the female community, (the ones without a cock and bollocks).

That last remark is flippant, I feel for anyone who feels trapped in the wrong gender body but I still feel the feelings of women in general should be paramount.

If you don't mind me asking, have you got daughters?

I don’t have daughters, no.

If that’s where you’re going with this, then for the record I don’t think being childless, or being concerned for the rights of trans people precludes you from being sympathetic to the rights of women either.

 

[Grendel]

So again, the suggestion being that women should be inherently suspicious of a trans women having an untoward motivation for transitioning in the first place?

Er no it’s their right to have a separate space - have they zero rights at all in your world?

 

[clint van damme]

So again, the suggestion being that women should be inherently suspicious of a trans women having an untoward motivation for transitioning in the first place?

Women should be inherently suspicious ofmen full stop, and with good reason.
The problem is, this opens up a loop hole to allow men into women's safe spaces.

 

[shmmeee]

Well I’ve been asking for some time what it really is about and not getting a direct answer. I was told it wasn’t about assault yet that seems heavily implored in most of the responses.

 

[clint van damme]

I don’t have daughters, no.

If that’s where you’re going with this, then for the record I don’t think being childless, or being concerned for the rights of trans people precludes you from being sympathetic to the rights of women either.

Just interesting that those who are against this in this debate all have daughters and those for it, I think, don't.
It definitely influences a person's perspective in my opinion.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No I’m talking about a woman’s rights not to share an open space with a naked man - I think that’s here basic right - does she have that right whatever her “reason”

She has a right to not use the communal space at all.

 

[shmmeee]

So again, the suggestion being that women should be inherently suspicious of a man having an untoward motivation?

Fixed for accuracy. Would you have made this post or would you have felt it unreasonable?

edit: forgot full edit lol

 

[Grendel]

If I had a daughter I’d be much more worried about widespread casual sexual assault from men, personally.

so a naked man in a shower Next to yout daughter even if it upsets her is her fault for showing transphobia - nice

 

[SBT]

When someone (ahem) whips out the Louis CK routines then you know this thread is in a good place.

 

[clint van damme]

She has a right to not use the communal space at all.

Women shouldn't use women's changing Rooms if they don't likeaman being in there? Jesus.

 

[Grendel]

She has a right to not use the communal space at all.

well that says it all

and you and your wife teach children

 

[Grendel]

Women shouldn't use women's changing Rooms if they don't likeaman being in there? Jesus.

and he’s a teacher god help us

 

[Sick Boy]

so a naked man in a shower Next to yout daughter even if it upsets her is her fault for showing transphobia - nice

Do you have any reports of men showering next to 14 year old girls in women’s changing rooms?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Just interesting that those who are against this in this debate all have daughters and those for it, I think, don't.
It definitely influences a person's perspective in my opinion.

I don’t have a daughter but I do have a wife who is genuinely scared walking home on her own or taking certain routes even with company. This really sounds like it’s about concerns over increased risk of assault-so can someone just say that it is?

 

[shmmeee]

When someone (ahem) whips out the Louis CK routines then you know this thread is in a good place.

Do you disagree with the bit?

I’ve had multiple girlfriends show me this clip as a way of understanding. Women are afraid of men and rightly so: we’re bigger, stronger, faster, more aggressive, more prone to mental illness, more likely to offend, and commit something like 98% of sexual assaults.

That’s why they fought for single sex provision in the first place.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Women shouldn't use women's changing Rooms if they don't likeaman being in there? Jesus.

That is one gargantuan leap.

 

[shmmeee]

Do you have any reports of men showering next to 14 year old girls in women’s changing rooms?

Person charged with indecent exposure at LA spa after viral Instagram video | Los Angeles | The Guardian

Charges filed two months after woman’s claims about Wi Spa sparked anti-trans protests

amp.theguardian.com

 

[Otis]

Women should be inherently suspicious ofmen full stop, and with good reason.
The problem is, this opens up a loop hole to allow men into women's safe spaces.

On that last point, exactly that.

 

[Sick Boy]

Do you disagree with the bit?

I’ve had multiple girlfriends show me this clip as a way of understanding. Women are afraid of men and rightly so: we’re bigger, stronger, faster, more aggressive, more prone to mental illness, more likely to offend, and commit something like 98% of sexual assaults.

That’s why they fought for single sex provision in the first place.

Genuinely, have their been reports of incidents happening in the UK in changing rooms?

 

[Nick]

I think the whole transphobic thing. Some people are going to defend everything to the death just to try and look like they care.

It should be common sense really, if somebody has just whacked a wig on and wants to go in women's showers and toilets is very questionable.

Somebody who has had operations and everything and it's different to the above.

Would anybody want that amy challenor anywhere near their kids? After all if you mention stuff about them then you are a transphobe.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

well that says it all

and you and your wife teach children

Really? I never used communal showers because I didn’t like being naked in front of other people. That’s what I’m referring to, not whatever else it is on your mind.

 

[shmmeee]

Genuinely, have their been reports of incidents happening in the UK in changing rooms?

Unisex changing rooms put women at danger of sexual assault, data reveals

The vast majority of reported sexual assaults at public swimming pools in the UK take place in unisex changing rooms, new statistics reveal.

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Do you disagree with the bit?

I’ve had multiple girlfriends show me this clip as a way of understanding. Women are afraid of men and rightly so: we’re bigger, stronger, faster, more aggressive, more prone to mental illness, more likely to offend, and commit something like 98% of sexual assaults.

That’s why they fought for single sex provision in the first place.

So it is about assault? Why spend hours claiming that it’s not?

 

[Sick Boy]

Unisex changing rooms put women at danger of sexual assault, data reveals

The vast majority of reported sexual assaults at public swimming pools in the UK take place in unisex changing rooms, new statistics reveal.

www.independent.co.uk

If a person has had full gender reassignment survey, where would you suggest they get changed?

 

[clint van damme]

I don’t have a daughter but I do have a wife who is genuinely scared walking home on her own or taking certain routes even with company. This really sounds like it’s about concerns over increased risk of assault-so can someone just say that it is?

It's not just about risk of assault.
A man might access a woman's changing room with no other intention but to get changed.
That doesn't mean a woman may not find that comfortable, she may have previously been assaulted, you give no credence to her feelings and your suggestion is to take away that safe space.

 

[shmmeee]

So it is about assault? Why spend hours claiming that it’s not?

Its not just about assault. At its core it’s about women’s right to assemble without men present should they wish.

Activists will often compare sex segregation with race segregation or sexuality segregation, but the difference is black people don’t have a wildly different offending profile to white people and gay people don’t have a wildly different offending profile to straight people. To think they do is racist or homophobic because you don’t have the data to support you.

Saying men are more dangerous to women than visa versa isn’t a value judgement, it’s grounded in centuries of data. As a man I accept that and don’t want to cross womens boundaries. That allows women to have an immediate early warning system should any man cross that boundary as it immediately highlights them as a bit of a wrongun.

 

[Nick]

Also, look at the blokes chucking a wig on to get into women's prisons.

Convicted rapist and nonce decides he's a woman and gets moved to a women's prison.

 

[SBT]

Do you disagree with the bit?

I’ve had multiple girlfriends show me this clip as a way of understanding. Women are afraid of men and rightly so: we’re bigger, stronger, faster, more aggressive, more prone to mental illness, more likely to offend, and commit something like 98% of sexual assaults.

That’s why they fought for single sex provision in the first place.

I honestly didn’t watch it (although I’ve probably seen it before), I just enjoyed the irony of citing the 21st century’s most notorious flasher for your argument!

 

[Nick]

It's not just about risk of assault.
A man might access a woman's changing room with no other intention but to get changed.
That doesn't mean a woman may not find that comfortable, she may have previously been assaulted, you give no credence to her feelings and your suggestion is to take away that safe space.

I really don't get why anybody would want to take away that space.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It's not just about risk of assault.
A man might access a woman's changing room with no other intention but to get changed.
That doesn't mean a woman may not find that comfortable, she may have previously been assaulted, you give no credence to her feelings and your suggestion is to take away that safe space.

That last sentence is bollocks to be honest and you’re treading close to personal experience.