Supporters forum Tuesday 30th August (6 Viewers)

[alexccfc99]

Think ccfc tried but it would need to be significant sale

Well to lose one now would be disastrous so let’s hope the thought doesn’t even enter the clubs head

that they get this replacement for Hyam sorted and start to pick up some results, which I believe they are capable of doing

 

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[oldfiver]

Come on - you know that doesn’t work in the championship long term. I’m not asking for a top 6 budget.

appetite is matching the fans - we’ve sold 13.5k season tickets. We’ve high merchandise sales. We’ve done our bit, how about the owners do their Bit?

3 loans and 1 free transfer is not an appetite. I’ve supported the model somewhat, but it’s up to them to put a product on the pitch.

fisher once said “our model wouldn’t work in the championship” - what are we doing to adapt?

Reference the sale of ST's - it has been previously reported, the Club will only get 1/23rd of that after tonights game. Until then they have cash flowed the expenses by some means

The "high value" mechandise sales probably amounts to 10>15% after VAT for the Club

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Bottom 7 budget this year rather than bottom 4. Suppose that’s incremental improvement and yes the meeting had a feel of it’s so unfair and we are doing our best. In a sense I understand that. Without significant investment that is the reality. Unfortunately due to that the club will need to plan for quite a drop off in season ticket numbers in my opinion but let’s see what the season brings and who the defensive replacement is going to be for Dom

It's not really an improvement though is it, or rather it's an improvement by default. Bonuses for players and management staff as well as increases for Robins, Adi, Hamer, Godden, O'Hare, Allen and Hyam who has now left. The contracts of Hamer and O'Hare are also apparently unsustainable.

The improvement is essentially just inflation catalysed by remaining in this division. Something the club has now admitted it can't afford to do.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Reference the sale of ST's - it has been previously reported, the Club will only get 1/23rd of that after tonights game. Until then they have cash flowed the expenses by some means

The "high value" mechandise sales probably amounts to 10>15% after VAT for the Club

That’s fine. But what I’m saying is previously Fisher has effectively said “if you want better players, You need to turn up and spend your money”

we’re doing that, and now they’re moving the goal post

 

[CCFCSteve]

More I look back the more I think we should have cashed in on Hamer or COH if I am being honest, at their peak value and would have gave MR more movement in the transfer market

To be fair I have some sympathy. It looked like Ohare was going before he got injured. They were trying to get best/better price, just very unlucky with timing of events

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Come on - you know that doesn’t work in the championship long term. I’m not asking for a top 6 budget.

appetite is matching the fans - we’ve sold 13.5k season tickets. We’ve high merchandise sales. We’ve done our bit, how about the owners do their Bit?

3 loans and 1 free transfer is not an appetite. I’ve supported the model somewhat, but it’s up to them to put a product on the pitch.

fisher once said “our model wouldn’t work in the championship” - what are we doing to adapt?

I do know that makes things very difficult
I was disappointed and frustrated at the supporters group discussion
Been trying to work out what it was
Thought it was a bit crass to take our questions and deliver a club update. Felt like they were saying something and something not nice to the supporters forum
Especially as they took our questions and answered them outside of the discussion
It’s not an in the know thing it’s a little disingenuous
Then there was a bit of us and them which is ok but it was more than that with one group not asking questions but just ranting in the same way as some on here do
We got some questions answered which was good on club not being actively for sale
Whether season ticket funds are received up front or as each home game takes place and about a new pitch
As a group we just wasted the opportunity to push certain areas of questions
Oh well

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

More I look back the more I think we should have cashed in on Hamer or COH if I am being honest, at their peak value and would have gave MR more movement in the transfer market

I think that's the issue though, Hamer's peak value certainly was vastly overestimated.

Albeit O'Hare probably would've gone as Burnley hadn't sold Cornet and McNeil when their interest had cooled, but whether they would've come back and agreed to the club's majority of cash up front demand is probably a bit pie in the sky.

 

[bawtryneal]

I do know that makes things very difficult
I was disappointed and frustrated at the supporters group discussion
Been trying to work out what it was
Thought it was a bit crass to take our questions and deliver a club update. Felt like they were saying something and something not nice to the supporters forum
Especially as they took our questions and answered them outside of the discussion
It’s not an in the know thing it’s a little disingenuous
Then there was a bit of us and them which is ok but it was more than that with one group not asking questions but just ranting in the same way as some on here do
We got some questions answered which was good on club not being actively for sale
Whether season ticket funds are received up front or as each home game takes place and about a new pitch
As a group we just wasted the opportunity to push certain areas of questions
Oh well

Thanks for the update SBP

I normally support Boddy but agree with your comment regarding the timing of the club update on the offal and disingenuous to the supporters group discussion. Not great timing !

I really sense some loss of momentum and frustration behind the scenes. Going to be am interesting few weeks.

A couple of wins are needed to lift spirits and get COH fit and back in the team

Going to be a nervous 36 hours on any outgoings. I fear Gyokores will be gone tomorrow. Replacements lined up for him and Hyam i understand.

 

[long way home]

Hope u got that tin hat on bawtry, i sense some flak coming ur way on the Vik comment.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Hope u got that tin hat on bawtry, i sense some flak coming ur way on the Vik comment.

It's not really tin foil hat stuff. Another sale will either be made over the next couple of days or at best in January. The cashflow problems of this month have been plugged through the Hyam sale but there's the glaring overheads that the club simply can't afford without another injection of cash.

This is where the club statement was a bit of an own goal really.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Reference the sale of ST's - it has been previously reported, the Club will only get 1/23rd of that after tonights game. Until then they have cash flowed the expenses by some means

The "high value" mechandise sales probably amounts to 10>15% after VAT for the Club

DB confirmed last night that’s it’s a combination of the two. He may not have understood the question or heard it lets see what clarity he gives when we agree the notes

 

[AOM]

Hope u got that tin hat on bawtry, i sense some flak coming ur way on the Vik comment.

Why would he get flak for that comment out of interest?
Gyokeres is our most saleable asset unfortunately so if I had to guess who would be moved on to make as much money as possible, he is probably that player

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Thanks for the update SBP

I normally support Boddy but agree with your comment regarding the timing of the club update on the offal and disingenuous to the supporters group discussion. Not great timing !

I really sense some loss of momentum and frustration behind the scenes. Going to be am interesting few weeks.

A couple of wins are needed to lift spirits and get COH fit and back in the team

Going to be a nervous 36 hours on any outgoings. I fear Gyokores will be gone tomorrow. Replacements lined up for him and Hyam i understand.

Wouldn’t be surprised the timing would be awful and possibly make a replacement/s not possible.
You can only sell if a buyer is willing to pay what you expect to receive
Real life isn’t football manager life and most of us, if not already, will start to realise that when you haven’t got enough money coming in you have to reduce what you spend.
There are no magic answers and we will not and can’t compete with teams who have parachute payments or owners willing to give money without expecting it back.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Are we actually for sale, just say Mike Ashley made a £10 bid for the club and offered Wasps £10m for the stadium, is that reasonable?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It's not really an improvement though is it, or rather it's an improvement by default. Bonuses for players and management staff as well as increases for Robins, Adi, Hamer, Godden, O'Hare, Allen and Hyam who has now left. The contracts of Hamer and O'Hare are also apparently unsustainable.

The improvement is essentially just inflation catalysed by remaining in this division. Something the club has now admitted it can't afford to do.

Worth having the forum then??
Although I disagree as we finished 12th with a playing budget at about 20th we now have one looking to finish 16th

Not very exciting but one could argue incremental progress. Think that’s the nail on the head for why I’m feeling down hearted today about yesterday.

Get the bunting out lads we’re aiming for 16th ffs

 

[bawtryneal]

Hope u got that tin hat on bawtry, i sense some flak coming ur way on the Vik comment.

Just giving my view on a sunny Wednesday morning in Bawtry
Heading south later for the match
PUSB.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Are we actually for sale, just say Mike Ashley made a £10 bid for the club and offered Wasps £10m for the stadium, is that reasonable?

Clear statement that the club and sisu have not said they are up for sale, the reality is of course sisu would be willing to listen to offers. As others have said given the economic reality why would someone pay a large amount.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Worth having the forum then??
Although I disagree as we finished 12th with a playing budget at about 20th we now have one looking to finish 16th

Not very exciting but one could argue incremental progress. Think that’s the nail on the head for why I’m feeling down hearted today about yesterday.

Get the bunting out lads we’re aiming for 16th ffs

No because unsurprisingly it sounded like a car crash, as I suspected it was going to be.

As it stands the increase in wage budget isn't necessarily a positive. Not while there are still multiple players on the books that are still here on a permanent basis because seemingly no other club wants them.

Wages are now around 100% of turnover, the club has serious cashflow issues that has just about been bridged, at least for now, through being forced to sell an asset, transfers instalments are due, and there's the EFL loan and operational costs to cover. It's a dire situation to be in without external investment and you haven't received one answer on how the club plan to resolve it.

The increase in wages has in part caused the club to hit a ceiling because the availability of funds is now non-existant - highlighting that it simply can't afford to compete in this decision under the current model. The incremental progress has come to a grinding halt and if anything we're far more likely to regress this season.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

No because unsurprisingly it sounded like a car crash, as I suspected it was going to be.

As it stands the increase in wage budget isn't necessarily a positive. Not while there are still multiple players on the books that are still here on a permanent basis because seemingly no other club wants them.

Wages are now around 100% of turnover, the club has serious cashflow issues that has just about been bridged, at least for now, through being forced to sell an asset, transfers instalments are due, and there's the EFL loan and operational costs to cover. It's a dire situation to be in without external investment and you haven't received one answer on how the club plan to resolve it.

The increase in wages has in part caused the club to hit a ceiling because the availability of funds is now non-existant - highlighting that it simply can't afford to compete in this decision under the current model under which it operates. The incremental progress has come to a grinding halt and if anything we're far more likely to regress this season.

Nothing to disagree with there really

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Nothing to disagree with there really

And this is why we need to know what their plan is. Their model doesn’t work - how are we supposed to sustain a championship football club?

they don’t have the capital, so maybe it’s “top of the cycle” time

This is what I talk about when I talk about their appetite

under SISU, our ambition is effectively aspire to be Rotherham

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

A pity really. Better ticket sales and crowds than a good chunk of the division but will end up clinging on to league status simply because owners can’t be arsed to provide any, not even emergency, funding to support a cash flow problem.

Feels like buying two season tickets was pointless if ultimately we appear if anything to be even worse off.

 

[shmmeee]

And this is why we need to know what their plan is. Their model doesn’t work - how are we supposed to sustain a championship football club?

they don’t have the capital, so maybe it’s “top of the cycle” time

This is what I talk about when I talk about their appetite

under SISU, our ambition is effectively aspire to be Rotherham

Spot on

 

[Grendel]

Wouldn’t be surprised the timing would be awful and possibly make a replacement/s not possible.
You can only sell if a buyer is willing to pay what you expect to receive
Real life isn’t football manager life and most of us, if not already, will start to realise that when you haven’t got enough money coming in you have to reduce what you spend.
There are no magic answers and we will not and can’t compete with teams who have parachute payments or owners willing to give money without expecting it back.

Or owners who issue longer loans with zero interest charges

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Are we actually for sale, just say Mike Ashley made a £10 bid for the club and offered Wasps £10m for the stadium, is that reasonable?

Nah £100m before they even answer the phone

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

And this is why we need to know what their plan is. Their model doesn’t work - how are we supposed to sustain a championship football club?

they don’t have the capital, so maybe it’s “top of the cycle” time

This is what I talk about when I talk about their appetite

under SISU, our ambition is effectively aspire to be Rotherham

The club's core priority has always been to survive in this division. I think Boddy may have actually slipped up and alluded to this last season in one of the forums.

The 'incremental progression' narrative is nothing more than a soundbite really and is impossible to achieve without some semblance of investment into the playing squad.

 

[SkyblueDad]

its the debt in SBS and L so the group debt is at something just over £50 million

Pardon my ignorance but how much of that debt or historic debt was sorted in our administration or was it sorted.
Have we really amassed a massive £50million debt since the last administration

 

[Grendel]

Thanks for the update SBP

I normally support Boddy but agree with your comment regarding the timing of the club update on the offal and disingenuous to the supporters group discussion. Not great timing !

I really sense some loss of momentum and frustration behind the scenes. Going to be am interesting few weeks.

A couple of wins are needed to lift spirits and get COH fit and back in the team

Going to be a nervous 36 hours on any outgoings. I fear Gyokores will be gone tomorrow. Replacements lined up for him and Hyam i understand.

Given you are on if the more supportive people that’s hardly reassuring

 

[djr8369]

Come on - you know that doesn’t work in the championship long term. I’m not asking for a top 6 budget.

appetite is matching the fans - we’ve sold 13.5k season tickets. We’ve high merchandise sales. We’ve done our bit, how about the owners do their Bit?

3 loans and 1 free transfer is not an appetite. I’ve supported the model somewhat, but it’s up to them to put a product on the pitch.

fisher once said “our model wouldn’t work in the championship” - what are we doing to adapt?

We’d all like to see a few more million invested but where would the money come from?

 

[Grendel]

As someone has said the 17% increase in budget is utter drivel someone should have snuffed that out as soon as Boddy made the claim

 

[Grendel]

We’d all like to see a few more million invested but where would the money come from?

Sisu are allegedly a high risk investment portfolio worth a few billion - them perhaps

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

Judging by what you say on here nothing was said last night SBP that has not been uttered on this forum.I do find it strange we had a club statement on the very day of your meeting when up till now we have had very little. Did they say when the new stadium might be built after all come December it will be 9 years.

Pardon my ignorance but how much of that debt or historic debt was sorted in our administration or was it sorted.
Have we really amassed a massive £50million debt since the last administration

When the admin come surely the debt was cleared as a (new)company took us over.My understanding as a layman like youself any debt would be from then.Feel sure that great guy OSB 58 will clear that up later

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

No because unsurprisingly it sounded like a car crash, as I suspected it was going to be.

As it stands the increase in wage budget isn't necessarily a positive. Not while there are still multiple players on the books that are still here on a permanent basis because seemingly no other club wants them.

Wages are now around 100% of turnover, the club has serious cashflow issues that has just about been bridged, at least for now, through being forced to sell an asset, transfers instalments are due, and there's the EFL loan and operational costs to cover. It's a dire situation to be in without external investment and you haven't received one answer on how the club plan to resolve it.

The increase in wages has in part caused the club to hit a ceiling because the availability of funds is now non-existant - highlighting that it simply can't afford to compete in this decision under the current model. The incremental progress has come to a grinding halt and if anything we're far more likely to regress this season.

The model is to sell players to fund ongoing improvement, we all know this. You don't have to like it as we all don't but its an unescapable fact of where we are. The club may have the odd flirtation with playoffs but if the club self finances through the development and sale of players and bobs around 14th in the league Sisu will be quite happy.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

The model is to sell players to fund ongoing improvement, we all know this. You don't have to like it as we all don't but its an unescapable fact of where we are. The club may have the odd flirtation with playoffs but if the club self finances through the development and sale of players and bobs around 14th in the league Sisu will be quite happy.

That was the model in L2/L1. The model in the Championship doesn't work unless a sizeable sale is made which really is entirely unsustainable given the size of the shortfall now.

I'd imagine it comes to around £4-5m to bridge this season (excluding the recent cashflow issues caused by pitch gate). If that's roughly the going rate from now on, this means the club will likely be forced to make either multiple sales per year or one significant sale while it remains in this division.

Like I said though as a model thats completely unsustainable, especially when it's essential that some semblance of investment is pumped back into the playing squad from fees received in order to bring through the next line of talent. The club will need to ensure the shortfall is covered first before investment into the squad is addressed.

 

[Robinshio]

if we are going to follow the model - then the plan should have been for gyokores and maybe hamer to be sold in May/june
half of that money given to Robins to spend and half to maintain sustainability

if Robins ended up with say a £7m warchest to play with on say 4 players, it is then for the coaching staff to develop into the next group
and so it continues, with the values increasing as you progress

as it is we fucked it up

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

The club's core priority has always been to survive in this division. I think Boddy may have actually slipped up and alluded to this last season in one of the forums.

The 'incremental progression' narrative is nothing more than a soundbite really and is impossible to achieve without some semblance of investment into the playing squad.

We’d all like to see a few more million invested but where would the money come from?

But that’s just it. Surviving in this league on our model isn’t sustainable. It’s time they sold up. This is our ceiling whilst the model is the same.

i’m all up for a sustainable plan, but that relies on selling and reinvesting. One of the in the knows alluded to this not happening.

in fact it’s what the should have done 12 years ago with the Dann & Fox money. They just don’t have it in them to run a championship football club. league one/championship yo-yo club yes - but I’d like to think as a club we’re a bit bigger than that