Supporters forum Tuesday 30th August (15 Viewers)

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

But that’s just it. Surviving in this league on our model isn’t sustainable. It’s time they sold up. This is our ceiling whilst the model is the same.

i’m all up for a sustainable plan, but that relies on selling and reinvesting. One of the in the knows alluded to this not happening.

in fact it’s what the should have done 12 years ago with the Dann & Fox money. They just don’t have it in them to run a championship football club. league one/championship yo-yo club yes - but I’d like to think as a club we’re a bit bigger than that

Player sales are fundamental to sustaining the club, but if little to no reinvestment is going back into the squad and only frees or loans are being picked up then there is no model in place - it's a sinking ship with Boddy and Robins standing on the bow with a few buckets.

 

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[eastwoodsdustman]

I'm coming across as naive here but am I right in thinking that the club only get my season ticket money in increments even if I've paid in full for it?
The whole idea of people getting season tickets and buying them early is to give the club a war chest for the start of the season.
Its no wonder we have cash flow issues if Ticketmaster sit on 100% of our ticket sales until games are played. Ticketmaster must be making a fair bit on interest as well if they are sitting £3.5 Million + of the clubs money.

 

[shmmeee]

Reference the sale of ST's - it has been previously reported, the Club will only get 1/23rd of that after tonights game. Until then they have cash flowed the expenses by some means

The "high value" mechandise sales probably amounts to 10>15% after VAT for the Club

Sorry but whichever idiot agreed to this needs shooting. The whole point of STs is that you get the money up front.

I’d love to see the total cost of admin for ticket sales.

 

[Kubrick]

DB confirmed last night that’s it’s a combination of the two. He may not have understood the question or heard it lets see what clarity he gives when we agree the notes

Alarmed that Boddy may not have understood this question about season tickets. He could have asked if he needed clarification or even said he’d come back with an answer if he wasn’t able to last night

 

[Nick]

I'm coming across as naive here but am I right in thinking that the club only get my season ticket money in increments even if I've paid in full for it?
The whole idea of people getting season tickets and buying them early is to give the club a war chest for the start of the season.
Its no wonder we have cash flow issues if Ticketmaster sit on 100% of our ticket sales until games are played. Ticketmaster must be making a fair bit on interest as well if they are sitting £3.5 Million + of the clubs money.

I can't see why it would be Ticketmaster who get to sit on all of that cash through the season. Is that a standard thing?

I can kind of get it with people booking individual match tickets but for season tickets is madness.

 

[SkyblueDad]

Talking administration is there a chance of that happening again ?

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I'm coming across as naive here but am I right in thinking that the club only get my season ticket money in increments even if I've paid in full for it?
The whole idea of people getting season tickets and buying them early is to give the club a war chest for the start of the season.
Its no wonder we have cash flow issues if Ticketmaster sit on 100% of our ticket sales until games are played. Ticketmaster must be making a fair bit on interest as well if they are sitting £3.5 Million + of the clubs money.

This is where the goal post have moved. There’s no incentive for season tickets to help the club, might as-well buy individual tickets. Club gets more money at the same time then

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Well well well...if Pete is downbeat, then that's not a good outlook.

In better news, my sons first Cov kit arrived yesterday and he looks f&%king amazing in it. Proud dad moment.

That news aside, off to hope for 3 points tonight to give us something to be positive about.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Sorry but whichever idiot agreed to this needs shooting. The whole point of STs is that you get the money up front.

I’d love to see the total cost of admin for ticket sales.

I wonder if this is following on from covid where rebates etc might’ve been due. Otherwise, as you say, just doesn’t make sense

 

[shmmeee]

I wonder if this is following on from covid where rebates etc might’ve been due. Otherwise, as you say, just doesn’t make sense

I’ve said this for years but I fail to believe sorting tickets out is an expensive job. On the interest on ST payments alone you could pay someone full time to send things out.

Maybe paper ticket distribution is an arse ache, but for STs where you’re just loading the card and assigning a seat I really don’t see where the benefit of outsourcing is.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Reference the sale of ST's - it has been previously reported, the Club will only get 1/23rd of that after tonights game. Until then they have cash flowed the expenses by some means

The "high value" mechandise sales probably amounts to 10>15% after VAT for the Club

Why do they bother pushing season ticket sales? Might as well push the price of matchday tickets right down and just have people buy tickets game by game. Charge a membership fee for priority only.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

I’ve said this for years but I fail to believe sorting tickets out is an expensive job. On the interest on ST payments alone you could pay someone full time to send things out.

Maybe paper ticket distribution is an arse ache, but for STs where you’re just loading the card and assigning a seat I really don’t see where the benefit of outsourcing is.

It's an interesting suggestion but I can't imagine it's overly cheap to set up. Far more staff needed, distribution/postage costs, printing and paper costs etc.

It could quite easily be done and if done right would surely be more beneficial in the medium to long term, but there'd be an initial outlay that the club just wouldn't be prepared to shoulder.

Also imagine the teething problems. I just wouldn't rely on the club getting it right.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Why do they bother pushing season ticket sales? Might as well push the price of matchday tickets right down and just have people buy tickets game by game. Charge a membership fee for priority only.

Far easier and safer to forecast budgets when you have a foundation of customers you definitely have for the season than relying on consumers that might rock up once in a while.

I can definitely see why they do it.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I'm coming across as naive here but am I right in thinking that the club only get my season ticket money in increments even if I've paid in full for it?
The whole idea of people getting season tickets and buying them early is to give the club a war chest for the start of the season.
Its no wonder we have cash flow issues if Ticketmaster sit on 100% of our ticket sales until games are played. Ticketmaster must be making a fair bit on interest as well if they are sitting £3.5 Million + of the clubs money.

But that again is the club's fault - the owners decide to run it as a very lean operation which outsources functions, they've outsourced ticket administration to make a saving (yay!) but not considered the cashflow (boo!)

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

But that again is the club's fault - the owners decide to run it as a very lean operation which outsources functions, they've outsourced ticket administration to make a saving (yay!) but not considered the cashflow (boo!)

The club's entire operation is based on short-termism. That hasn't ever really changed.

 

[Grendel]

But that again is the club's fault - the owners decide to run it as a very lean operation which outsources functions, they've outsourced ticket administration to make a saving (yay!) but not considered the cashflow (boo!)

I assume this was done by Ticketmaster due to the COVID outbreak. I would think the club could take insurance out and get the cash up front but have chose as you say the cheap option

 

[shmmeee]

It's an interesting suggestion but I can't imagine it's overly cheap to set up. Far more staff needed, distribution/postage costs, printing and paper costs etc.

It could quite easily be done and if done right would surely be more beneficial in the medium to long term, but there'd be an initial outlay that the club just wouldn't be prepared to shoulder.

Also imagine the teething problems. I just wouldn't rely on the club getting it right.

Oh no the club would fuck it up.

Just thinking though, 13.5k ST holders, couple of thousand away fans. You’re really looking at 5-6k tickets to manage a game and some of those will be cash on the turnstile.

I wonder if you could have a soft ST where you get a card, maybe for a nominal fee that’s recovered by discounted tickets, and you can buy seats on that. Or you find a way to enable tickets on mobile. Then a lot of the problems go away.

Basically end up with cards/mobile or cash on entry, and maybe 1-2k tickets for casuals/friends and family.

To be honest, I’m more surprised no one has undercut what seems a ludicrously expensive deal with TicketMaster. Seems like a market ripe for some innovation.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Oh no the club would fuck it up.

Just thinking though, 13.5k ST holders, couple of thousand away fans. You’re really looking at 5-6k tickets to manage a game and some of those will be cash on the turnstile.

I wonder if you could have a soft ST where you get a card, maybe for a nominal fee that’s recovered by discounted tickets, and you can buy seats on that. Or you find a way to enable tickets on mobile. Then a lot of the problems go away.

Basically end up with cards/mobile or cash on entry, and maybe 1-2k tickets for casuals/friends and family.

To be honest, I’m more surprised no one has undercut what seems a ludicrously expensive deal with TicketMaster. Seems like a market ripe for some innovation.

Most costs would be flexible as you wouldn't need increased staff for instance throughout the season. It's just the initial outlay that perhaps would be more expensive in that regard especially as ideally you'd need to appoint a Head of Ticketing with experience of managing the operation in-house. Also there would be part time ticketing assistants to cope with the initial volume. I can also imagine the printing and postage/distribution costs being steep in the short term.

Cards would definitely still have to remain in place. There must be a number of fans 50+ and as such most wouldn't be interested in an app/mobile ticket.

In theory bringing the ticketing operation in-house would work but like we said I just couldn't see the club getting it right and the short term outlay would immediately put them off sadly.

 

[wingy]

If it's down to Covid for this Horlcks then we're way past that so get it changed back pronto .Anyway ridiculous situation and a question should have been asked last night.
Operationally it's obviously the cheapest option but get it ended now.

 

[djr8369]

Sisu are allegedly a high risk investment portfolio worth a few billion - them perhaps

But we know they’re not going to do that, unless it’s as a loan.

Gambling on getting to the prem seems too high a risk even for a hedge fund.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

We’d all like to see a few more million invested but where would the money come from?

Magic money tree

 

[Liquid Gold]

Magic money tree

Billionaire owner

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Magic money tree

Again we’re not expecting millions, we’re expecting them to match our commitment.

if they can’t do that, we’ve hit a ceiling. It’s time for them to go.

 

[djr8369]

But that’s just it. Surviving in this league on our model isn’t sustainable. It’s time they sold up. This is our ceiling whilst the model is the same.

i’m all up for a sustainable plan, but that relies on selling and reinvesting. One of the in the knows alluded to this not happening.

in fact it’s what the should have done 12 years ago with the Dann & Fox money. They just don’t have it in them to run a championship football club. league one/championship yo-yo club yes - but I’d like to think as a club we’re a bit bigger than that

In terms of history and fan base we’re bigger than that but history doesn’t pay the bills.

We’re going to be a middling championship club (again). Occasionally we’ll slip up and go down and occasionally we’ll have a good season and flirt with the playoffs.

I can’t really see them selling up as I can’t see anyone wanting to buy us (unless we get the stadium, which is extremely unlikely).

 

[djr8369]

Again we’re not expecting millions, we’re expecting them to match our commitment.

if they can’t do that, we’ve hit a ceiling. It’s time for them to go.

They’re not going to go though.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Magic money tree

So instead of addressing the issue the owners think high interest short term loans are in the best interests of the club?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

In terms of history and fan base we’re bigger than that but history doesn’t pay the bills.

We’re going to be a middling championship club (again). Occasionally we’ll slip up and go down and occasionally we’ll have a good season and flirt with the playoffs.

I can’t really see them selling up as I can’t see anyone wanting to buy us (unless we get the stadium, which is extremely unlikely).

I mean devils advocate, there’s actually a Premiership rugby team that’s financially in the shit.

surely we could tempt a Steve lansdowne type who would be interesting in both

 

[djr8369]

I mean devils advocate, there’s actually a Premiership rugby team that’s financially in the shit.

surely we could tempt a Steve lansdowne type who would be interesting in both

Would go down badly with our fans but I suspect a more realistic option than anything else.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I'm coming across as naive here but am I right in thinking that the club only get my season ticket money in increments even if I've paid in full for it?
The whole idea of people getting season tickets and buying them early is to give the club a war chest for the start of the season.
Its no wonder we have cash flow issues if Ticketmaster sit on 100% of our ticket sales until games are played. Ticketmaster must be making a fair bit on interest as well if they are sitting £3.5 Million + of the clubs money.

It’s a combination

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

So instead of addressing the issue the owners think high interest short term loans are in the best interests of the club?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

It's in the best interests of SISU and their investors - which has always been their priority regardless of how much a certain section of the fanbase want to believe that Joy is now herself a fan.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

It’s a combination

What combination is it Pete? Just the Direct debit ones paid in instalments or a % of all of them? I'm genuinely interested to know how my ST money is paid to the club.

 

[bawtryneal]

Given you are on if the more supportive people that’s hardly reassuring

They will continue to get my support through "thick and thin". Life is not always a bed of roses and its ever so easy to criticise from the side lines without knowing the whole story.
Probably why you love Keir Starmer ...... ever so easy in opposition !!
You are wrong about the 17% budget increase by the way.

 

[chiefdave]

I can't see why it would be Ticketmaster who get to sit on all of that cash through the season. Is that a standard thing?

I can kind of get it with people booking individual match tickets but for season tickets is madness.

By default Ticketmaster, and every other ticket seller I've dealt with for that matter, don't realise the money until after an event has taken place. The simple reason is if they event is postponed / cancelled they are the ones who have to pay the money back out and don't want to be chasing a company who potentially has already spent that money for a payment to cover refunds.

 

[chiefdave]

We used to do the ticketing in house and if more than two people were on the site at the same time it fell over completely!

Does anyone really trust the club to come up with a bespoke ticketing system that can cope with demand, runs smoothly and interfaces with he stadium ticket scanners? You've got more confidence in them than me if you think that would run smoothly.

 

[oldskyblue58]

I think there is more to the "model" problem than first team players being able to be sold on at a higher fee.

My understanding was that a big chunk of the "model" was developing our own players to a point that they come in to the first team and develop further but are capable of holding down a place on merit, then we sell them to wash rinse repeat. Make money.

What i am seeing is a first team made up of players we have bought or bring in on loan (other peoples talent we develop) and some youngsters on the bench who get a few minutes every so often maybe because there is no one else.

its all well and good saying we need to build the club but isnt that done from bottom up not top down. But i suppose if they haven't invested in the 1st team why would i think they would elsewhere. The investment should have been a couple of years ago of course to reap rewards now

I know its more complicated than that, but cant help feeling the 1st team squad is 13 or 14 players we have bought or on loan or free and the rest are just there to make up the numbers because they are too young or not good enough (if you are good enough can you be too young CCFC usually dont break through till 20+ it seems to me).

Why is other clubs talent good enough to loan to us and straight in the first team but ours doesn't seem to be used. Why haven't we got a core of capable youngsters with a couple of stand outs (Tavares, Howley i guess are those) that provides competition and solid base to move forward (team wise but also financially)

Maybe i am seeing this all completely wrongly, i am sure there are others here who will have better knowledge of that process. Just feels like poor planning and not following any real model and hoping for the best to me