USSR invades Ukraine. (21 Viewers)

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chiefdave

chiefdave

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tisza said:
illegally captured arms and munitions
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this can't be a thing surely. know there's rules of war but if you're running away so fast you can't take stuff with you or destroy it when you've been illegally occupying somewhere you can't ask for it back!
 
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tisza

tisza

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
this can't be a thing surely. know there's rules of war but if you're running away so fast you can't take stuff with you or destroy it when you've been illegally occupying somewhere you can't ask for it back!
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Someone breaks into your house and leaves his jemmy there. Then sends the police around to fetch it for him as it's his property.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
Probably wishful thinking, but imagine if they rout Kherson as well.

Seems to be a lot of reports of soldiers surrendering and refusing to fight there


Fcc6l2NX0AMJVgZ
 
tisza

tisza

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
Yeah they've been fighting over Nagorno-Karabakh for centuries
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Had a case here about 15 years ago. Armenian and Azeri officers on a training course. Azeri officer basically chopped up Armenian officer with an axe while he was in bed. Sentenced to life here then was supposed to go backto Azerbajian to serve out his sentence but their President pardoned him as soon as he got off the flight.
 
tisza

tisza

Well-Known Member
Flying Fokker said:
Just wondering, Surely we/ US et Al have boots on the ground? Special forces are there for such circumstances.
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Would be surprised. Catastrophic politically if one got caught. Hi Tec assistance can be provided from distance.
Also NATO going to great lengths & expense to train large numbers of Ukrainians on their own countries rather than provide "on site" training.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
This is awful and exactly why agreeing for 'peace' talks was never really an optoin


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Absolute monsters. Hearing some of the reports the Russian soldiers have bought into their propaganda about Ukrainians being Nazis and murderers and the Americans secretly doing the fighting.

Seen a few takes that Russians just don’t have the mindset for liberal democracy, or any democracy for a variety of cultural reasons. Real shame cos I know some lovey Russians, but as a whole they seem to be wedded to this bunker mentality, strong man leader type stuff.

And no one can do much cos of the nukes. So not sure how they become a functioning part of the international community again. Maybe demographic change, though a lot of the liberal young just seem to up sticks and move to the West.
 
tisza

tisza

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Absolute monsters. Hearing some of the reports the Russian soldiers have bought into their propaganda about Ukrainians being Nazis and murderers and the Americans secretly doing the fighting.

Seen a few takes that Russians just don’t have the mindset for liberal democracy, or any democracy for a variety of cultural reasons. Real shame cos I know some lovey Russians, but as a whole they seem to be wedded to this bunker mentality, strong man leader type stuff.

And no one can do much cos of the nukes. So not sure how they become a functioning part of the international community again. Maybe demographic change, though a lot of the liberal young just seem to up sticks and move to the West.
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Have to fear for how disciplined Ukrainians are going to be (seeing as many aren't regular troops) when they retake these areas and deal with collaborators.
Liberal democracy is found in few countries outside the EU and several within aren't keen on the concept. It appeals to stable countries not so much to unstable ones. Hungarians still accept Orban's illiberal democracy as they think it guarantees stability albeit at a price. A fair precentage here are still pro-Russia and everything here is EU and NATO's fault. Plus Ukraine is getting what it deserves for perceived abuses of the Hungarian population in trans Carpathia which they believe Putin would return to them.
Russians don't get liberal democracy because they moved from one form of total authority to another to another now.
Have a friend here now who is a senior executive for a huge French food company. He is anti-Putin and had to leave Russia on one of his companies ships. His wife and family joined but she wants to go back as she is pro-Putin and doesn't accept how much danger her husband could be in if he returned.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
tisza said:
Have to fear for how disciplined Ukrainians are going to be (seeing as many aren't regular troops) when they retake these areas and deal with collaborators.
Liberal democracy is found in few countries outside the EU and several within aren't keen on the concept. It appeals to stable countries not so much to unstable ones. Hungarians still accept Orban's illiberal democracy as they think it guarantees stability albeit at a price. A fair precentage here are still pro-Russia and everything here is EU and NATO's fault. Plus Ukraine is getting what it deserves for perceived abuses of the Hungarian population in trans Carpathia which they believe Putin would return to them.
Russians don't get liberal democracy because they moved from one form of total authority to another to another now.
Have a friend here now who is a senior executive for a huge French food company. He is anti-Putin and had to leave Russia on one of his companies ships. His wife and family joined but she wants to go back as she is pro-Putin and doesn't accept how much danger her husband could be in if he returned.
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Yeah and you need a whole civil infrastructure that isn’t riddled with corruption for it to work, which a lot of places lack. And it’s chicken and egg cos how do you stamp down on corruption without first having a leadership who wants to?

Ukraine has these issues as well, I hope that both the cultural ties with the west being strengthened and hopefully the west being heavily involved in rebuilding post war can fix some of that. Both countries have such potential.
 
Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Yeah and you need a whole civil infrastructure that isn’t riddled with corruption for it to work, which a lot of places lack. And it’s chicken and egg cos how do you stamp down on corruption without first having a leadership who wants to?

Ukraine has these issues as well, I hope that both the cultural ties with the west being strengthened and hopefully the west being heavily involved in rebuilding post war can fix some of that. Both countries have such potential.
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Which we are somewhat losing at our peril
 
JAM See

JAM See

Well-Known Member
tisza said:
Always confuses me why Putin isn't more paranoid about China. They have also sorts of troops and weapons have much closer to Russia than NATO do. Modernizing their military at a massive rate and aren't exactly shy about expanding their areas of influence in the future
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He needs a weatherman to see which way the wind blows.
 
Flying Fokker

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
tisza said:
Always confuses me why Putin isn't more paranoid about China. They have also sorts of troops and weapons have much closer to Russia than NATO do. Modernizing their military at a massive rate and aren't exactly shy about expanding their areas of influence in the future
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Putin would Struggle with tiddlywinks judging by his strategy in Ukraine.
 
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shmmeee

shmmeee

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Got to say if it keeps going this way Biden has played an absolute blinder in geopolitical terms.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

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What actual powers does anyone have to prosecute war crimes? Cos there seems to be tons of evidence and the international community is just kinda whistling to itself in the corner.

Ive no idea how any of that works. Do they need to catch Putin somewhere out of Russia, are there no automatic sanctions or anything? Seems weird you can have a UN Security Council member just brazenly committing atrocities and no one bats an eyelid.
 
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