Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (140 Viewers)

[covcity4life]

It’s like when we had some fans willing us to get relegated to League 1 to get rid of SISU, then it was League 2…all it did was threaten the clubs existence.
The game away vs Notts C will probably be one of the most important in our lifetime, especially considering the starkly different directions the 2 clubs have gone in.

I know we are agreeing but re botts county: thank you max....

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

They aren’t football people, never said they were.

They aren’t even business people, they are hedge fund managers.

With relegation comes lower income. Costs will fall but not at the same rate. Think how PL clubs need parachute payments to honour player contracts. We’d no doubt have similar problems albeit at lower numbers.

What would hurt is the value attributed to league status and minimum revenues.

Have a think.

You may even agree. You might not admit it, but:

SISU would be in a world of pain with relegation. To say that it would be better or at least equal is madness.

They were fine with it from 2012 onwards. Soon to be in a stadium owned by a billionaire who was openly trying to get back into football this summer.

A chance to recoup that investment you might think? More likely to cling on for another 15 years in the hope Ashley's diet catches up with him

 

[The Philosopher]

'They' told Boddy that they refused to provide any extra short term funding to help our August cashflow problems. That resulted in him punting Hyam on the cheap to Blackburn because otherwise we simply wouldn't have been able to pay wages.

My arse do they care about the footballing side of things-they couldn't give a flying fuck

“They”

Didn’t sign Walker, Hillsner, Waghorn (who I’m sure we agree are flops) on high wages, they left it to the recruiters.

The recruiters who got some things right (Gyok, Hamer, O’Hare) also.

What they did is say: here’s a budget, we’ve gone 4.6m over last year because COVID, we’ll absorb that. Get rid of your deadwood and spend within your budget.

 

[Grendel]

“They”

Didn’t sign Walker, Hillsner, Waghorn (who I’m sure we agree are flops) on high wages, they left it to the recruiters.

The recruiters who got some things right (Gyok, Hamer, O’Hare) also.

What they did is say: here’s a budget, we’ve gone 4.6m over last year because COVID, we’ll absorb that. Get rid of your deadwood and spend within your budget.

Ah so it’s everyone else’s fault but Joy and Tim

Oh and cut the Covid nonsense. They decided to play 20 miles from home so we’re hardly bothered by lost revenue anyway

 

[The Philosopher]

They were fine with it from 2012 onwards. Soon to be in a stadium owned by a billionaire who was openly trying to get back into football this summer.

A chance to recoup that investment you might think? More likely to cling on for another 15 years in the hope Ashley's diet catches up with him

Oh come on,

They’ve gone on record a few months back saying that there’s an opportunity for someone to buy them and the ground.

15 years?

No, they want out at the right money. I’ve said what I think it is.

 

[CCFCSteve]

tbf I'd have seen it as very irresponsible to gamble in that January. Building incrementally is fine. That being said, we then messed that up by reducing the level of squad in the close season, anyway!

I thought at the time a couple of decent loans were worth a punt. In hindsight we were a bit more short than that

 

[Perryccfc]

God this is a painful read for a Sunday afternoon

 

[Samo]

There are some spiteful fuckers on here.

 

[The Philosopher]

Ah so it’s everyone else’s fault but Joy and Tim

Oh and cut the Covid nonsense. They decided to play 20 miles from home so we’re hardly bothered by lost revenue anyway

I think I’ve clearly said that they’ve made mistakes and have incurred the costs:

Missed out on arena years ago
Wasted money in court
Employed lunatics at CCFC board and even management level.

Many have made mistakes.

This is all irrelevant.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

“They”

Didn’t sign Walker, Hillsner, Waghorn (who I’m sure we agree are flops) on high wages, they left it to the recruiters.

The recruiters who got some things right (Gyok, Hamer, O’Hare) also.

What they did is say: here’s a budget, we’ve gone 4.6m over last year because COVID, we’ll absorb that. Get rid of your deadwood and spend within your budget.

We had cashflow problems caused by Wasps and the Commonwealth Games fucking up the pitch. Short term, because the postponed games would eventually take place. Most owners would be able and willing to provide bridging finance to help.

We ended up having to punt Hyam for a fee that the Blackburn side actually found comical. They are the worst owners in the 92 by some distance and it's not even close.

 

[The Philosopher]

We had cashflow problems caused by Wasps and the Commonwealth Games fucking up the pitch. Short term, because the postponed games would eventually take place. Most owners would be able and willing to provide bridging finance to help.

We ended up having to punt Hyam for a fee that the Blackburn side actually found comical. They are the worst owners in the 92 by some distance and it's not even close.

That’s true.

They should have bridged the money pending the rearranged games.

They didn’t.

That was unforgivable.

And short sighted.

Never said they were good owners.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

They aren’t football people, never said they were.

They aren’t even business people, they are hedge fund managers.

With relegation comes lower income. Costs will fall but not at the same rate. Think how PL clubs need parachute payments to honour player contracts. We’d no doubt have similar problems albeit at lower numbers.

What would hurt is the value attributed to league status and minimum revenues.

Have a think.

You may even agree. You might not admit it, but:

SISU would be in a world of pain with relegation. To say that it would be better or at least equal is madness.

World of pain? Every contract will have wage reductions, every player of value will be sold before the next season starts - they’ll have preparations for a relegation.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That’s true.

They should have bridged the money pending the rearranged games.

They didn’t.

That was unforgivable.

And short sighted.

Never said they were good owners.

It boils down to this-if they want out they now have the best chance they are pretty much ever going to get.

 

[The Philosopher]

That was their time to gamble if ever there was one. When they didn’t it suggested to me they might be ready to move on if someone puts a sensible deal on the table (£Xm upfront plus upside on promotion and/or big player sales)

Correct.

 

[The Philosopher]

World of pain? Every contract will have wage reductions, every player of value will be sold before the next season starts - they’ll have preparations for a relegation.

The value of “goodwill” or “opportunity cost” will hugely diminish from CH to L1.

SISU don’t want to lose any more money either cash or intangible asset value.

I don’t know why this needs stating.

 

[usskyblue]

 

[The Philosopher]

It boils down to this-if they want out they now have the best chance they are pretty much ever going to get.

100%

This is what they want.

But not at any cost - it has to balance their books.

 

[The Philosopher]

Transfer sales aren’t investments - if you take transfer profit it’s funded operational losses. That’s not funding

The loans in have been paid back and they extracted nearly £2 million in 2019 for investor returns

Net money in is exactly what I’ve said

Total investment OSB estimates at £32 m most of which stopped in 2012 - the capital and interest residing in the club at the last accounts stands at £20 million

Clueless.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

The value of “goodwill” or “opportunity cost” will hugely diminish from CH to L1.

SISU don’t want to lose any more money either cash or intangible asset value.

I don’t know why this needs stating.

The value of Otium Entertainment is £0 it can’t diminish. SISU have shown over the past 10 years they would be happy for it to bubble at break even as part of an investment fund.

this is something they would happily do again.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Transfer sales aren’t investments - if you take transfer profit it’s funded operational losses. That’s not funding

The loans in have been paid back and they extracted nearly £2 million in 2019 for investor returns

Net money in is exactly what I’ve said

Total investment OSB estimates at £32 m most of which stopped in 2012 - the capital and interest residing in the club at the last accounts stands at £20 million

That went up by £4.5 million this year.

 

[The Philosopher]

The value of Otium Entertainment is £0 it can’t diminish. SISU have shown over the past 10 years they would be happy for it to bubble at break even as part of an investment fund.

this is something they would happily do again.

I don’t think it works like that, be great if we could just shake the tree and all the debt money blows away with the leaves.

SISU and their chicanery (Sixfields, huge legal fees) has mortgaged CCFC and the brand to (and I’ve said how I think this number is right) £60m.

It’s like having a mortgage of 600k on a 300k house with land with planning permission.

Don’t want to get too flowery but IMO the club has £30m in assets and the brand and league status SISU value at £30m and owes SISU massaged funds £60m

Otium and any other objects of their chicanery are not the sauce in the Kiev.

 

[Calista]

Who could forget David Meyler lighting up our team!

I had forgotten actually, but I know what you mean

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I don’t think it works like that, be great if we could just shake the tree and all the debt money blows away with the leaves.

SISU and their chicanery (Sixfields, huge legal fees) has mortgaged CCFC and the brand to (and I’ve said how I think this number is right) £60m.

It’s like having a mortgage of 600k on a 300k house with land with planning permission.

Don’t want to get too flowery but IMO the club has £30m in assets and the brand and league status SISU value at £30m and owes SISU massaged funds £60m

Otium and any other objects of their chicanery are not the sauce in the Kiev.

Where are you getting this 60m from? The debt won’t go away - but the majority isn’t SISU money, it’s legacy and paper debt.

the actual money owed to SISU is around 20m

 

[The Philosopher]

Where are you getting this 60m from? The debt won’t go away - but the majority isn’t SISU money, it’s legacy and paper debt.

the actual money owed to SISU is around 20m

We’ve done this. Several times.

 

[Sick Boy]

I know we are agreeing but re botts county: thank you max....

And the officials!

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

I don’t think it works like that, be great if we could just shake the tree and all the debt money blows away with the leaves.

SISU and their chicanery (Sixfields, huge legal fees) has mortgaged CCFC and the brand to (and I’ve said how I think this number is right) £60m.

It’s like having a mortgage of 600k on a 300k house with land with planning permission.

Don’t want to get too flowery but IMO the club has £30m in assets and the brand and league status SISU value at £30m and owes SISU massaged funds £60m

Otium and any other objects of their chicanery are not the sauce in the Kiev.

It's Kyiv

 

[The Philosopher]

View attachment 27016View attachment 27016

Just going back to what we thought SISU needed to walk away, I dug out this old chart from Swiss Ramble.

It looks plausible and since then (2021) I think SISU put in another £5m

Is that £57m of debt? (Gross) and then there’ll be another £2m of “interest”.

I waffled before about CCFC being shown as £60m on their books.

Just saying.

For HuckerbyDublinWhelan view attachment

 

[The Philosopher]

It's Kyiv

Putin would say otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Yes because it is the losses of otium that is the club losses Not the sbs&l group

because if you wanted to buy the club as it is then you buy only otium who have 9m in loans and nearly 7m in interest.

Just an an article with no real understanding

But even then you wouldn't buy the company only the assets

 

[The Philosopher]

Don’t know where you are going with this.

You can buy whatever you like only with the permission of the person with the Capacity to sell it.

SISU won’t sell Otium or whatever for 9 or even 16m.

Players are worth more.

I could go on.

CBA.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

For HuckerbyDublinWhelan view attachment

Don’t know where you are going with this.

You can buy whatever you like only with the permission of the person with the Capacity to sell it.

SISU won’t sell Otium or whatever for 9 or even 16m.

Players are worth more.

I could go on.

CBA.

The debt and what SISU have put in are two entirely different things. The paper debt says £60m but in reality SISUs actual expenditure is far less

 

[Deleted member 5849]

CBA

 

[The Philosopher]

The debt and what SISU have put in are two entirely different things. The paper debt says £60m but in reality SISUs actual expenditure is far less

I’ve been saying that for ages but I don’t blame you for not reading all the posts.

They can’t sell for much less.

Hence (guess) £30m now for £51%. Balance on PL (or as someone else mentioned player sales in future or whatever). Interest in meantime on £30m

Mr Clueless and others who think that SISU will sell for £20m or want us relegated are as intelligent as the chicken I’m about to cook.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Mr Clueless and others who think that SISU will sell for £20m or want us relegated are as intelligent as the chicken I’m about to cook.

Im assuming English is not your first language, as your inability to comprehend it is truly special.

 

[The Philosopher]

Im assuming English is not your first language, as your inability to comprehend it is truly special.

Aucune idée