Do you want to discuss boring politics? (60 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
- Start date
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
This is part of why I'd love someone manifesto to include setting up looking into more holistic stats than just the usual economic growth. Why not look to include %age changes in other factors. Stuff like healthcare outcomes. Percentage change in waiting times. You can even include mental health with things like prescriptions for anti-depressants/suicides etc.
Even growth needs to be looked at more closely. Should focus much more heavily on wealth disparity, so if the economy grows but wealth disparity widens then the figure should reflect that.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I thought they'd already abandoned that!
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Wake up to a fire bomb? You lucky lucky bastards, I dream of waking up to a fire bomb.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
One of them doesn’t even understand where his taste buds are, so the finer points of immigration law are almost certainly beyond him.
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
However, others don't mind putting their pledges on the side of a mug.
I guess it scored well in the focus groups.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
How many people do you think support uncontrolled immigration?
If even now you’re claiming Labour are the same as the Tories on immigration frankly there’s no helping you (but we knew that already).
Go cry at some polling.
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
When you have tea around labour councillors homes, which one's serve up tea in those mugs?
Or do they have Tory mugs?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
Yep, setting up a straw man argument is as far as the conversation gets with you.
How about the new slogan for Labour mugs being;
I used to have principles, but I would sell my own Grandmother to get into power.
I'm voting Labour.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Do you support open borders?
Seems like a classical liberal position to me, rather than a socialist one…
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
Whatever my answer is, I will post it to you, when I can be bothered, on a side of a mug.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Oh yes, it’s me that’s avoiding a debate.
Here you go, your position is historically at around the Lizardman Constant among the public:
So what principles exactly do you think Labour are abandoning here?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Can I get this on a mug? 
amp.theguardian.com
Jeremy Corbyn urges west to stop arming Ukraine | Jeremy Corbyn | The Guardian
Ex-Labour leader also tells Beirut-based TV channel he was criticised over antisemitism because of stance on Palestine
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
Do you ever get the feeling that Labour's lead in the polls is to do with the incompetency of the Tories in office and Labour would be the default position of this, rather than anything that Labour has actually done recently?
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
Or to put it another way, you could put a red rosette on a hat stand, put it up for election, and it would still get the same polling figures.
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
Some would say the electorate would look more favourably on this than current and former councillors from Coventry Labour.
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Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
Probably the hat stand would get better results whilst running the council as well.
D
Deleted member 9744
Guest
They don't want to understand. It's about keeping them foreigners out innit? This is such an extreme Tory party, the equivalent of the National Front in the 80s.
But Starmer ....
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
And this is the exact issue of keeping on moving to the right in the supposed quest of taking up the middle ground. The Tories will just go further right.
The battle is lost even before it has begun.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Or you just take up the middle ground and let the other side capitulate to the mentals in the Party. You know like the last election. How did the hatstand do then?
D
Deleted member 9744
Guest
The Tories will keep moving to the right if they keep winning. Labour won't win by just appealing to the left. You have to get into power first and then start to influence the political landscape. Now I hate how Labour panders to the racist/xenophobic discourse over immigration that we have had ever since the Brexit debate started, and I hope they stop it soon, but the last thing we need is to let the Tories win again.
I agree with you about the mug picture. I actually think this nonsense will lose popular appeal soon. Voters will be more concerned about their bills than foreigners. Of course they should be even more concerned about climate change, but that will come soon...
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
It’s about image management as well. Voters go into elections with certain prior beliefs. Tories are good on economy but hate the poor and the environment. Labour wants open border and will spend all the cash.
Look how upset the Tory right gets about net zero commitments from the government, which are just the cost of entry with the British public. Corbyn supercharged these beliefs so on top of the normal overcorrection needed you had to account for that as well.
This by the way has always been my main issue with Corbyn (check my posts on here from the time). He became so unpopular he tainted lots of solid left wing policy with his brand and whoever came next was always going to have to tack even further right to fix it.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Immigration is dropping as a concern and is at record low levels, but as the polling I posted above shows the number of people who want vastly increased immigration is so small as to be virtually non-existent.
This is a democracy, Labours job isn’t to be an activist changing public opinion but to take the moderate end of the spectrum and nudge things along. Ironically the biggest driver of anti-immigrant sentiment was Blair’s “rub their noses in diversity” strategy which is essentially what the likes of Philosoraptor are advocating.
This is a democracy, Labours job isn’t to be an activist changing public opinion but to take the moderate end of the spectrum and nudge things along. Ironically the biggest driver of anti-immigrant sentiment was Blair’s “rub their noses in diversity” strategy which is essentially what the likes of Philosoraptor are advocating.
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
How did the Corbynite candidate in Cov get on? Seem to remember her turning it from a safe seat into one of the most marginal in the country.
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
Know anything about this Schmmeee?
Coventry MPs may face votes to remain Labour candidates
The two MPs are at risk of facing ballots that could see them deselected, the BBC understands.
www.bbc.co.uk
Why did these two get an article and the hat stand didn't?
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
Also, who are these party members when at least one was unanimously selected?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I’d like to know what Dennis Skinner’s crime was in the eyes of the Bolsover electorate. Particularly listening to the prick they put in his place
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Know anything about this Schmmeee?
Coventry MPs may face votes to remain Labour candidates
The two MPs are at risk of facing ballots that could see them deselected, the BBC understands.www.bbc.co.uk
Why did these two get an article and the hat stand didn't?
Because she’s stepping down and therefore can’t be up for deselection Filosoraptor
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
Jumped before she was pushed.