skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
No. I don’t think for one minute that you’re a racist.
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (270 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
- Start date
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
If you bang on to your kids like the way you bang on and on and on on here then they will remember not to visit you when they've left home and got in with their lives. Seriously.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
Would you like to show me the evidence that I'm a racist ?
At least when my kids were 13 and 15 years old they were more important to me than ranting all day on here you sad bastard. Get a life.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
*lights touch paper*
Immigration controls are a left wing policy and Corbyn said the same thing.
*runs*
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
However to support that he also talked about a substantive education plan to upskill and train people.
Starmer can’t even back public sector workers trying to get a fair wage.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
How it started:
www.politicshome.com
How it’s going:
Jeremy Corbyn: Brexit will stop cheap foreign labour undercutting British workers’ pay
Jeremy Corbyn has said Brexit will put a stop to firms “importing cheap labour” to undercut the wages of UK workers.
www.politicshome.com
How it’s going:
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
How it started:
Jeremy Corbyn: Brexit will stop cheap foreign labour undercutting British workers’ pay
Jeremy Corbyn has said Brexit will put a stop to firms “importing cheap labour” to undercut the wages of UK workers.
How it’s going:
View attachment 27421
Thanks for making my point - a substantive minimum wage that Labour won’t touch.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Awks.
Sir Keir wants to train UK workers to replace cheap foreign labour
In a speech in July this year, Sir Keir Starmer said he now wanted to 'make Brexit work' and would no longer pursue the restoration of free movement.
www.dailymail.co.uk
| Labour Unions
Under the Tories, working people suffered more than decade of falling and flatlining pay, while prices in the...
labourunions.org.uk
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Minimum wage earners would receive hundreds of pounds of extra pay under Labour plans
BRITS on the minimum wage would be in line for hundreds of pounds of extra pay to cover the cost of living under Labour plans. Sir Keir Starmer has drawn up proposals to help the lowest earners get…
www.thesun.co.uk
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
£800 over 52 weeks - fuck me that’s impressive…. An astronomical 38p extra an hour for a 40 hour week.Minimum wage earners would receive hundreds of pounds of extra pay under Labour plans
BRITS on the minimum wage would be in line for hundreds of pounds of extra pay to cover the cost of living under Labour plans. Sir Keir Starmer has drawn up proposals to help the lowest earners get…www.thesun.co.uk
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
That’s the Suns guess. He’s not put a number on it, but isn’t tying it to living standards better?
Do you want him to have a big row with business in the middle of an election campaign? All signs point to him wanting to raise it. Of course he does, he’s a Labour leader. Yet you said he wouldn’t look at it.
Just accept you’re making wild baseless claims because his name isn’t Jeremy and save us all time.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
I don’t even disagree with the sentiment of it - we do need to do it, but there is no ‘real’ effort to improve living standards is there?
He won’t actually back any public sector workers to get a real pay rise to keep up with inflation, he won’t actually back any substantive rise in the minimum wage either.
There are no signs at all… it’s barely equitable with useless Tory promises - and yes he should be doing far better.
PS… not sure why you keep mentioning Jeremy…. You need to move on
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
The education and training implementation could potentially take a decade at least if you think of the need in the NHS alone. Did he say that immigration will need to likely increase before it will go down as a result of his policy? What do you think?I'm not sure that saying more money should be spent on education and training, and that immigration levels don't need to go down is further right than the Tories 'send the buggers back' policy but what do I know
Interesting line to take from Starmer and obviously conflicts with his historical stance on freedom of movement, which doesn’t provide any genuine controls on supply of labour
It’s about time a sensible debate took place and maybe Starmer raising it might encourage this but it needs well thought out policy. Productivity is shit in this country and one of the main reasons is lack of investment in both automation and people, which is partly due to the availability of cheap labour
Focus on investment in people, encourage capital investment and provide a sensible short and longer term migration policy to address shortages/skills and it ‘should’ ultimately lead to higher productivity and wages.
Ps just to be clear this isn’t anti immigration. Ive always said I’d be happy if we have net migration of 50k, 100k or 200k as long as those people are filling the roles we need and we have the public infrastructure to cope. That requires proper planning, policy and control - unfortunately I don’t think politicians/government have this in them
It’s about time a sensible debate took place and maybe Starmer raising it might encourage this but it needs well thought out policy. Productivity is shit in this country and one of the main reasons is lack of investment in both automation and people, which is partly due to the availability of cheap labour
Focus on investment in people, encourage capital investment and provide a sensible short and longer term migration policy to address shortages/skills and it ‘should’ ultimately lead to higher productivity and wages.
Ps just to be clear this isn’t anti immigration. Ive always said I’d be happy if we have net migration of 50k, 100k or 200k as long as those people are filling the roles we need and we have the public infrastructure to cope. That requires proper planning, policy and control - unfortunately I don’t think politicians/government have this in them
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I don’t even disagree with the sentiment of it - we do need to do it, but there is no ‘real’ effort to improve living standards is there?
He won’t actually back any public sector workers to get a real pay rise to keep up with inflation, he won’t actually back any substantive rise in the minimum wage either.
There are no signs at all… it’s barely equitable with useless Tory promises - and yes he should be doing far better.
PS… not sure why you keep mentioning Jeremy…. You need to move on
Because him losing is at the heart of your instinctual reaction to literally everything Starmer says. You lost Jezza and the “right” (actually the soft left cos they are who really runs Labour) won.
But it’s not true. They’ve already said social care workers and a new deal involving unions is their priority. He’s repeatedly said he wants stronger unions to raise pay. He’s committed to improving NMW. These things you say aren’t true, it takes me two seconds on Google to disprove them each time, but next time he makes the headlines you’ll be here again claiming he’s Farage or Trump or a Tory or whatever. Because he’s not in the SCG.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The correct position is indeed skills and automation. And I’d like to see particularly the latter with better plans laid out.
It will mean some sectors shrinking though as they’ve relied on cheap, often barely legal, workers. No one is picking fruit at a pace and price comparable. But then that industry relies on the desperation of people from poorer countries, so maybe it should shrink.
I’m not settled on where I land TBH, and I’m very happy at the effect it’s having on wages, which I think should be a lot higher all round. Needs to be either a conscious decision to let some industries go (
sounds very Thatcher) or it needs to be a conscious decision to pay more for goods because we pay people more and don’t allow cheap imports. Either way the conversation needs to be had because we’ve had decades of claiming to want to reduce immigration but not wanting to turn off cheap labour.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I get that point, presented very differently though
Of course it will take time, he didn't say otherwise. He didn't put a time frame on it.
In fact he said Labour would "speed up visa delays to avoid labour shortages damaging the economy".
Sounds like a sensible approach to me.
To say it's further right than the Tories stance on immigration is just nuts but I guess if you're getting your news from Nigel Farage that's not surprising!
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Don't always agree with Bastani but he isn't wrong here is he
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Shmmeee says we have to believe Starmer verbatim, his Google searches confirmed it.
And also ignore him reneging on pretty much every leadership pledge he made because they don’t count really.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I can't see any of that ever coming back to bite him
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Yeah Corbyn used the “foreign workers undercutting good old Brits” which is considerably more dog whistle racism than “business needs to stop its addiction to cheap Labour” as it frames the issue as a problem with business not immigrants.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
My point isn’t about Starmer. It’s about you and the left in general and how you need to get over Corbyn Fucking up the project.
Be as angry as you like at Starmer but he looks like he’s going to be PM and his policy is considerably more left wing than most previous Labour leaders and on many issues you take issue with the exact same policy position as Corbyn because it’s not Corbyn saying it.
Corbyn didn’t keep a single promise. Because he never came close to being elected.
The left is its own worst enemy man. And all the complaining about Blair won’t change that. Blair by the way who is still hands down the second best PM in my lifetime behind Gordon Brown, who as someone else not in the SCG and to the right of Starmer I assume you also hate.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
He talked and an immigration dependency and off the back of that talked about cheap labour.
"Backing private enterprise is the only way that Britain can pay its way" what the fuck does that even mean?
"This is a different Labour party and there is no going back" 10m and 13m voters in the last two elections get fucked
"Public finances in a perilous position" this is just state budget = household budget rubbish I'm afraid, the UK can pay for anything it needs to pay for in £ sterling. You know this as you've posted about it here previously
In fairness some better bits, eg not relying on SE / London productivity growth (which was borne from investment) as was the case with the last Labour government.
Correct that the state of public services is an economic as much as social issue (and in my view a security one too) as well.
Got bored after that as he's about engaging as John Virgo
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Fkn hell!!! I know you hate all things Tory and I know we've given you a rum bunch of leaders to choose from, but Brown? Really?
Possibly one of the nicer and I'd concede more trustworthy politicians we've seen but a complete car crash of a PM!
How was he a car crash?
What about when Obama put him forward to lead the world in the response to the global financial crisis?
I can't imagine he'd have put forward any of Brown's successors for such a role.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
starmer gives a good speech setting plans for a high wage economy, no actual reduction in immigration and he blames the issues on business and not immigrants but still people just read the misleading headlines and whinge
as has been said some on the "left" are the lefts own worst enemy
as has been said some on the "left" are the lefts own worst enemy
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
No one mentions Corbyn anywhere near as much as you.
And Starmer constantly contradicts himself, that's a fact, as you said, it literally takes seconds to Google to prove it.
