Do you want to discuss boring politics? (26 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

Are you talking about me?

No. I don’t think for one minute that you’re a racist.

 

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[PVA]

The face on Gullis here

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

It was his own backbenchers that scared him into a referendum, he thought he could end party squabbling with a referendum. UKIP was no threat to safe Tory seats, if anything they was more dangerous to safe Labour seats as the 2019 GE proved. IIRC they only ever had 2 MP’s in their entire history and they were defections and I think they only retained 1, Ferage couldn’t get elected to parliament if his life depended on it. You’re writing your own history again. Try some self reflection, it will help you later in life when you have to explain your part in this to your children.

I’ve got mates already there. I didn’t have kids until my mid 30’s most of my mates were having them 5-10years before me and most of them voted leave (deciding factor in seeing the writing on the wall). Most of their kids weren’t eligible to vote in the referendum so we’re relying on their parents to get it right for them. Most of their kids are now in f voting age and now have an opinion and they want to know why their parents voted for sanctions against our country, why they voted for them to lose personal rights, why they voted for them to leave school/university and enter the real world in considerably more difficult circumstances than there needed to be based on obvious lies about sovereignty, immigration, cost of living, anti growth politics, they want to know why their parents had the benefits of EU membership but they’ve robbed them of it. I think I’m right in saying your children are younger than mine from things you’ve said in the past. Maybe you’ll fall lucky and my children will right your wrongs so you don’t have to have the difficult conversations my mates are having to have with their children. Most of them see the errors of brexit by the way and would vote differently given the opportunity. Nothing like explaining to your kids that you fell for a load of horse shit to give you the dose of reality needed to admit your errors.

If you bang on to your kids like the way you bang on and on and on on here then they will remember not to visit you when they've left home and got in with their lives. Seriously.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Again, you’re an actual grown man. Still you’ve got your racist fan boy on side .

Would you like to show me the evidence that I'm a racist ?
At least when my kids were 13 and 15 years old they were more important to me than ranting all day on here you sad bastard. Get a life.

 

[Ian1779]

Let’s get the Libs on defending the pound shop Farage running Labour.

 

[shmmeee]

Let’s get the Libs on defending the pound shop Farage running Labour.

*lights touch paper*

Immigration controls are a left wing policy and Corbyn said the same thing.

*runs*

 

[Ian1779]

*lights touch paper*

Immigration controls are a left wing policy and Corbyn said the same thing.

*runs*

However to support that he also talked about a substantive education plan to upskill and train people.

Starmer can’t even back public sector workers trying to get a fair wage.

 

[shmmeee]

How it started:

Jeremy Corbyn: Brexit will stop cheap foreign labour undercutting British workers’ pay

Jeremy Corbyn has said Brexit will put a stop to firms “importing cheap labour” to undercut the wages of UK workers.

www.politicshome.com

How it’s going:

 

[Ian1779]

How it started:

Jeremy Corbyn: Brexit will stop cheap foreign labour undercutting British workers’ pay

Jeremy Corbyn has said Brexit will put a stop to firms “importing cheap labour” to undercut the wages of UK workers.

www.politicshome.com

How it’s going:





View attachment 27421

Thanks for making my point - a substantive minimum wage that Labour won’t touch.

 

[shmmeee]

However to support that he also talked about a substantive education plan to upskill and train people.

Starmer can’t even back public sector workers trying to get a fair wage.

Awks.

Sir Keir wants to train UK workers to replace cheap foreign labour

In a speech in July this year, Sir Keir Starmer said he now wanted to 'make Brexit work' and would no longer pursue the restoration of free movement.

www.dailymail.co.uk

| Labour Unions

Under the Tories, working people suffered more than decade of falling and flatlining pay, while prices in the...

labourunions.org.uk

 

[shmmeee]

Thanks for making my point - a substantive minimum wage that Labour won’t touch.

Minimum wage earners would receive hundreds of pounds of extra pay under Labour plans

BRITS on the minimum wage would be in line for hundreds of pounds of extra pay to cover the cost of living under Labour plans. Sir Keir Starmer has drawn up proposals to help the lowest earners get…

www.thesun.co.uk

 

[Ian1779]

Minimum wage earners would receive hundreds of pounds of extra pay under Labour plans

BRITS on the minimum wage would be in line for hundreds of pounds of extra pay to cover the cost of living under Labour plans. Sir Keir Starmer has drawn up proposals to help the lowest earners get…

www.thesun.co.uk

£800 over 52 weeks - fuck me that’s impressive…. An astronomical 38p extra an hour for a 40 hour week.

 

[shmmeee]

£800 over 52 weeks - fuck me that’s impressive…. An astronomical 38p extra an hour for a 40 hour week.

That’s the Suns guess. He’s not put a number on it, but isn’t tying it to living standards better?

Do you want him to have a big row with business in the middle of an election campaign? All signs point to him wanting to raise it. Of course he does, he’s a Labour leader. Yet you said he wouldn’t look at it.

Just accept you’re making wild baseless claims because his name isn’t Jeremy and save us all time.

 

[PVA]

I'm not sure that saying more money should be spent on education and training, and that immigration levels don't need to go down is further right than the Tories 'send the buggers back' policy but what do I know

 

[Ian1779]

That’s the Suns guess. He’s not put a number on it, but isn’t tying it to living standards better?

Do you want him to have a big row with business in the middle of an election campaign? All signs point to him wanting to raise it. Of course he does, he’s a Labour leader. Yet you said he wouldn’t look at it.

Just accept you’re making wild baseless claims because his name isn’t Jeremy and save us all time.

I don’t even disagree with the sentiment of it - we do need to do it, but there is no ‘real’ effort to improve living standards is there?

He won’t actually back any public sector workers to get a real pay rise to keep up with inflation, he won’t actually back any substantive rise in the minimum wage either.

There are no signs at all… it’s barely equitable with useless Tory promises - and yes he should be doing far better.

PS… not sure why you keep mentioning Jeremy…. You need to move on

 

[Ian1779]

I'm not sure that saying more money should be spent on education and training, and that immigration levels don't need to go down is further right than the Tories 'send the buggers back' policy but what do I know

The education and training implementation could potentially take a decade at least if you think of the need in the NHS alone. Did he say that immigration will need to likely increase before it will go down as a result of his policy? What do you think?

 

[CCFCSteve]

Interesting line to take from Starmer and obviously conflicts with his historical stance on freedom of movement, which doesn’t provide any genuine controls on supply of labour

It’s about time a sensible debate took place and maybe Starmer raising it might encourage this but it needs well thought out policy. Productivity is shit in this country and one of the main reasons is lack of investment in both automation and people, which is partly due to the availability of cheap labour

Focus on investment in people, encourage capital investment and provide a sensible short and longer term migration policy to address shortages/skills and it ‘should’ ultimately lead to higher productivity and wages.

Ps just to be clear this isn’t anti immigration. Ive always said I’d be happy if we have net migration of 50k, 100k or 200k as long as those people are filling the roles we need and we have the public infrastructure to cope. That requires proper planning, policy and control - unfortunately I don’t think politicians/government have this in them

 

[shmmeee]

I don’t even disagree with the sentiment of it - we do need to do it, but there is no ‘real’ effort to improve living standards is there?

He won’t actually back any public sector workers to get a real pay rise to keep up with inflation, he won’t actually back any substantive rise in the minimum wage either.

There are no signs at all… it’s barely equitable with useless Tory promises - and yes he should be doing far better.

PS… not sure why you keep mentioning Jeremy…. You need to move on

Because him losing is at the heart of your instinctual reaction to literally everything Starmer says. You lost Jezza and the “right” (actually the soft left cos they are who really runs Labour) won.

But it’s not true. They’ve already said social care workers and a new deal involving unions is their priority. He’s repeatedly said he wants stronger unions to raise pay. He’s committed to improving NMW. These things you say aren’t true, it takes me two seconds on Google to disprove them each time, but next time he makes the headlines you’ll be here again claiming he’s Farage or Trump or a Tory or whatever. Because he’s not in the SCG.

 

[shmmeee]

Interesting line to take from Starmer and obviously conflicts with his historical stance on freedom of movement, which doesn’t provide any genuine controls on supply of labour

It’s about time a sensible debate took place and maybe Starmer raising it might encourage this but it needs well thought out policy. Productivity is shit in this country and one of the main reasons is lack of investment in both automation and people, which is partly due to the availability of cheap labour

Focus on investment in people, encourage capital investment and provide a sensible short and longer term migration policy to address shortages/skills and it ‘should’ ultimately lead to higher productivity and wages.

Ps just to be clear this isn’t anti immigration. Ive always said I’d be happy if we have net migration of 50k, 100k or 200k as long as those people are filling the roles we need and we have the public infrastructure to cope. That requires proper planning, policy and control - unfortunately I don’t think politicians/government have this in them

The correct position is indeed skills and automation. And I’d like to see particularly the latter with better plans laid out.

It will mean some sectors shrinking though as they’ve relied on cheap, often barely legal, workers. No one is picking fruit at a pace and price comparable. But then that industry relies on the desperation of people from poorer countries, so maybe it should shrink.

I’m not settled on where I land TBH, and I’m very happy at the effect it’s having on wages, which I think should be a lot higher all round. Needs to be either a conscious decision to let some industries go ( sounds very Thatcher) or it needs to be a conscious decision to pay more for goods because we pay people more and don’t allow cheap imports. Either way the conversation needs to be had because we’ve had decades of claiming to want to reduce immigration but not wanting to turn off cheap labour.

 

[fernandopartridge]

*lights touch paper*

Immigration controls are a left wing policy and Corbyn said the same thing.

*runs*

I get that point, presented very differently though

 

[PVA]

The education and training implementation could potentially take a decade at least if you think of the need in the NHS alone. Did he say that immigration will need to likely increase before it will go down as a result of his policy? What do you think?

Of course it will take time, he didn't say otherwise. He didn't put a time frame on it.

In fact he said Labour would "speed up visa delays to avoid labour shortages damaging the economy".

Sounds like a sensible approach to me.

To say it's further right than the Tories stance on immigration is just nuts but I guess if you're getting your news from Nigel Farage that's not surprising!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

In fact he said Labour would "speed up visa delays to avoid labour shortages damaging the economy".

There'll be delays implemented more quickly?

 

[PVA]

There'll be delays implemented more quickly?

You know what I mean!

 

[fernandopartridge]

Don't always agree with Bastani but he isn't wrong here is he

 

[Ian1779]

Don't always agree with Bastani but he isn't wrong here is he

Shmmeee says we have to believe Starmer verbatim, his Google searches confirmed it.

And also ignore him reneging on pretty much every leadership pledge he made because they don’t count really.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Shmmeee says we have to believe Starmer verbatim, his Google searches confirmed it.

And also ignore him reneging on pretty much every leadership pledge he made because they don’t count really.

I can't see any of that ever coming back to bite him

 

[shmmeee]

I get that point, presented very differently though

Yeah Corbyn used the “foreign workers undercutting good old Brits” which is considerably more dog whistle racism than “business needs to stop its addiction to cheap Labour” as it frames the issue as a problem with business not immigrants.

 

[shmmeee]

Shmmeee says we have to believe Starmer verbatim, his Google searches confirmed it.

And also ignore him reneging on pretty much every leadership pledge he made because they don’t count really.

My point isn’t about Starmer. It’s about you and the left in general and how you need to get over Corbyn Fucking up the project.

Be as angry as you like at Starmer but he looks like he’s going to be PM and his policy is considerably more left wing than most previous Labour leaders and on many issues you take issue with the exact same policy position as Corbyn because it’s not Corbyn saying it.

Corbyn didn’t keep a single promise. Because he never came close to being elected.

The left is its own worst enemy man. And all the complaining about Blair won’t change that. Blair by the way who is still hands down the second best PM in my lifetime behind Gordon Brown, who as someone else not in the SCG and to the right of Starmer I assume you also hate.

 

[PVA]

My point isn’t about Starmer. It’s about you and the left in general and how you need to get over Corbyn Fucking up the project.

Be as angry as you like at Starmer but he looks like he’s going to be PM and his policy is considerably more left wing than most previous Labour leaders and on many issues you take issue with the exact same policy position as Corbyn because it’s not Corbyn saying it.

Corbyn didn’t keep a single promise. Because he never came close to being elected.

The left is its own worst enemy man. And all the complaining about Blair won’t change that. Blair by the way who is still hands down the second best PM in my lifetime behind Gordon Brown, who as someone else not in the SCG and to the right of Starmer I assume you also hate.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yeah Corbyn used the “foreign workers undercutting good old Brits” which is considerably more dog whistle racism than “business needs to stop its addiction to cheap Labour” as it frames the issue as a problem with business not immigrants.

He talked and an immigration dependency and off the back of that talked about cheap labour.

"Backing private enterprise is the only way that Britain can pay its way" what the fuck does that even mean?

"This is a different Labour party and there is no going back" 10m and 13m voters in the last two elections get fucked

"Public finances in a perilous position" this is just state budget = household budget rubbish I'm afraid, the UK can pay for anything it needs to pay for in £ sterling. You know this as you've posted about it here previously

In fairness some better bits, eg not relying on SE / London productivity growth (which was borne from investment) as was the case with the last Labour government.

Correct that the state of public services is an economic as much as social issue (and in my view a security one too) as well.

Got bored after that as he's about engaging as John Virgo

 

[rob9872]

Blair by the way who is still hands down the second best PM in my lifetime behind Gordon Brown

Fkn hell!!! I know you hate all things Tory and I know we've given you a rum bunch of leaders to choose from, but Brown? Really?

Possibly one of the nicer and I'd concede more trustworthy politicians we've seen but a complete car crash of a PM!

 

[PVA]

Fkn hell!!! I know you hate all things Tory and I know we've given you a rum bunch of leaders to choose from, but Brown? Really?

Possibly one of the nicer and I'd concede more trustworthy politicians we've seen but a complete car crash of a PM!

How was he a car crash?

What about when Obama put him forward to lead the world in the response to the global financial crisis?

I can't imagine he'd have put forward any of Brown's successors for such a role.

 

[David O'Day]

starmer gives a good speech setting plans for a high wage economy, no actual reduction in immigration and he blames the issues on business and not immigrants but still people just read the misleading headlines and whinge

as has been said some on the "left" are the lefts own worst enemy

 

[clint van damme]

My point isn’t about Starmer. It’s about you and the left in general and how you need to get over Corbyn Fucking up the project.

Be as angry as you like at Starmer but he looks like he’s going to be PM and his policy is considerably more left wing than most previous Labour leaders and on many issues you take issue with the exact same policy position as Corbyn because it’s not Corbyn saying it.

Corbyn didn’t keep a single promise. Because he never came close to being elected.

The left is its own worst enemy man. And all the complaining about Blair won’t change that. Blair by the way who is still hands down the second best PM in my lifetime behind Gordon Brown, who as someone else not in the SCG and to the right of Starmer I assume you also hate.

No one mentions Corbyn anywhere near as much as you.
And Starmer constantly contradicts himself, that's a fact, as you said, it literally takes seconds to Google to prove it.

 

[shmmeee]

No one mentions Corbyn anywhere near as much as you.
And Starmer constantly contradicts himself, that's a fact, as you said, it literally takes seconds to Google to prove it.