USSR invades Ukraine. (19 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

No but its what Russia thinks and the provocation is clearly the suggestion of further NATO movement to the Russian border in addition to the bonkers comment by Von De Lyon or whatever she is called that EU membership would be considered. Neither of these suggestions were ever going to be tolerated by the Kremlin

It wasn't that long ago that Russia said Ukraine was sovereign. Now they don't. Just because they haven't gone down that route of denying a country's legitimacy yet doesn't mean they won't revise that opinion in the future. But I guess someone like you is all up for revisionism.

You yourself have said Putin wants the USSR states back together, so that would suggest he sees all of them as fundamentally Russian rather than sovereign.

 

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[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

And you can argue Russia is a threat from a western perspective.

It's the line they're touting to convince the Russian people that what they're doing is justified and not some barbaric land grab. Doesn't make it in any way true.

Just like Brexit was full of stuff that riled people up to leave even though it wasn't reality. Only if you told them that you were suddenly a traitor and hated the country.

Comparing the Russian invasion to brexit is just living proof of how mad this off topic chat has got recently.

As has been told to the losing side many times, there were a lot of legitimate concerns people had about the EU, and those people were laughed at, called names, and told their opinions didn't matter. It's a massive part of the reason why you lost.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Comparing the Russian invasion to brexit is just living proof of how mad this off topic chat has got recently.

As has been told to the losing side many times, there were a lot of legitimate concerns people had about the EU, and those people were laughed at, called names, and told their opinions didn't matter. It's a massive part of the reason why you lost.

This is a thread where someone has attempted to blame Ukraine for provoking Russia into invading it. You tell me who's mad

 

[Grendel]

This is a thread where someone has attempted to blame Ukraine for provoking Russia into invading it. You tell me who's mad

Not exactly what I said but hey ho

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not exactly what I said but hey ho

Who provoked Russia then?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

This is a thread where someone has attempted to blame Ukraine for provoking Russia into invading it. You tell me who's mad

I know, but that's nothing to do with me. Frankly whatever you think of the regime in Ukraine, millions of innocent people face their lives ruined or taken due to Russia, and as far as I'm concerned there's no excuse or justification for it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I know, but that's nothing to do with me. Frankly whatever you think of the regime in Ukraine, millions of innocent people face their lives ruined or taken due to Russia, and as far as I'm concerned there's no excuse or justification for it.

Correct answer

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Comparing the Russian invasion to brexit is just living proof of how mad this off topic chat has got recently.

As has been told to the losing side many times, there were a lot of legitimate concerns people had about the EU, and those people were laughed at, called names, and told their opinions didn't matter. It's a massive part of the reason why you lost.

I was merely pointing out the similarity in the tactics.

This is a totally different topic and don't want to hijack this one with it but there were, and are, legitimate concerns about the EU (which even many on here that favoured remain said as well). We just also saw that there were many advantages to it as well, and that overall this outweighed the concerns. Plus the U.K. had a better chance of bringing about reform as a member rather than not being.

Back to this topic, there are legitimate concerns about Russia, which a certain poster seems to be totalling dismissing.

 

[skybluetony176]

Heartwarming and heartbreaking at the same time.

 

[Flying Fokker]

I was merely pointing out the similarity in the tactics.

This is a totally different topic and don't want to hijack this one with it but there were, and are, legitimate concerns about the EU (which even many on here that favoured remain said as well). We just also saw that there were many advantages to it as well, and that overall this outweighed the concerns. Plus the U.K. had a better chance of bringing about reform as a member rather than not being.

Back to this topic, there are legitimate concerns about Russia, which a certain poster seems to be totalling dismissing.

That’s a relief. This terrible war has

Heartwarming

Yep, human kindness.

 

[Flying Fokker]

China calling for peace talks.

The sovereignty of all countries is respected
• Abandoning the Cold War mentality
• Ceasing hostilities
• Resuming peace talks
• Resolving the humanitarian crisis
• Protecting civilians and prisoners of war (PoWs)
• Keeping nuclear power plants safe
• Reducing strategic risks
• Facilitating grain exports
• Stopping unilateral sanctions
• Keeping industrial and supply chains stable
• Promoting post-conflict reconstruction

The plan unveiled by Beijing on the first anniversary of the war has urged all parties to avoid "fanning the flames and aggravating tensions" in the hope of preventing the crisis from "deteriorating further or spiralling out of control".​

By Siba Jackson, news reporter
Friday 24 February 2023 13:16, UK

Chinese arms could fuel the war?

China has called for a ceasefire and peace talks in Ukraine on the first anniversary of the Russian invasion.
Beijing's foreign ministry urged all parties to "avoid fanning the flames and aggravating tensions" in the hope of preventing the crisis from "deteriorating further or spiralling out of control".
Ukraine war live updates
A paper published by the ministry on Friday warned "conflict and war benefit no one" and said everyone involved must "stay rational and exercise restraint".
But the proposal has been branded an "attempt at public relations" by China, which one year ago said it has a "no limits friendship" with Russia.
It has yet to condemn its ally or describe the war as an "invasion" - and has also criticised Western sanctions imposed on Moscow.
President Xi Jinping is expected to deliver a "peace speech" on Friday to mark the anniversary, when he is likely to call for peace while avoiding direct criticism of Vladimir Putin's regime.

 

[PVA]

Maybe they just don't want to back the wrong horse.

 

[tisza]

China calling for peace talks.

The sovereignty of all countries is respected
• Abandoning the Cold War mentality
• Ceasing hostilities
• Resuming peace talks
• Resolving the humanitarian crisis
• Protecting civilians and prisoners of war (PoWs)
• Keeping nuclear power plants safe
• Reducing strategic risks
• Facilitating grain exports
• Stopping unilateral sanctions
• Keeping industrial and supply chains stable
• Promoting post-conflict reconstruction

Hard to see as much more than PR when it offers bullet points rather than possible solutions.

 

[tisza]

Maybe they just don't want to back the wrong horse.

Immediate points all favour Russia - cessation of hostilities allows Russia to retool, reset defensive positions etc. Sanctions removal again benefits Russia. China one of the major beneficiaries of sanctions with cheap oil.
China going to back China until an "obvious" winner emerges

 

[PVA]

Immediate points all favour Russia - cessation of hostilities allows Russia to retool, reset defensive positions etc. Sanctions removal again benefits Russia. China one of the major beneficiaries of sanctions with cheap oil.
China going to back China until an "obvious" winner emerges

Yeah I meant instead of sending weapons to Russia like was being rumoured earlier in the week

 

[Grendel]

Maybe they just don't want to back the wrong horse.

They all point to Russian bias FFS!

 

[Grendel]

Yeah I meant instead of sending weapons to Russia like was being rumoured earlier in the week

Oh yeah they’ll freely admit they are doing that

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Oh yeah they’ll freely admit they are doing that

A provocation to invade China surely?

 

[PVA]

They all point to Russian bias FFS!

You're on board with them then

 

[PVA]

Oh yeah they’ll freely admit they are doing that

They don't need to. It'd be picked up immediately by western intelligence.

 

[PVA]

This is exactly why Ukraine shouldn't, and don't want to, sit down for peace talks

 

[shmmeee]

This is exactly why Ukraine shouldn't, and don't want to, sit down for peace talks

Those 5 babies shouldn’t have poked the bear…

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

This is exactly why Ukraine shouldn't, and don't want to, sit down for peace talks

But the Russians just want to be friends apparently so they should let them walk straight in.
You only had to look at the Famine's that Stalin imposed on Ukraine to see why they won't want any sort of Russian authority ever again.
This sort of thing will only serve to stiffen their resolve. Not that it needed stiffening.

 

[tisza]

Yeah I meant instead of sending weapons to Russia like was being rumoured earlier in the week

May try and circumvent this by announcing an arms deal with Belarus instead - seeing as Lukashenko is visiting Beijing atm. Timing of supposed Belarus partisan attack on Russian plane is convenient for some.

 

[tisza]

This is exactly why Ukraine shouldn't, and don't want to, sit down for peace talks

Also why Russia may not be keen on peace talks? These aren't isolated incidents. Peace talks would also accelerate the war crimes investigations.

 

[Flying Fokker]

May try and circumvent this by announcing an arms deal with Belarus instead - seeing as Lukashenko is visiting Beijing atm. Timing of supposed Belarus partisan attack on Russian plane is convenient for some.

Supposing China tells them to back off? Once they have nuclear arms it may be a different situation.

 

[PVA]

Obscene numbers. And for what.

 

[skybluetony176]

Belarusian opposition claiming responsibility for the attack on a Russian early warning plane parked in Belarus airbase. Claim to have been assisted by Belarusian military staff. Can see there being a civil war in Belarus yet, especially if the military is split.

 

[tisza]

Belarusian opposition claiming responsibility for the attack on a Russian early warning plane parked in Belarus airbase. Claim to have been assisted by Belarusian military staff. Can see there being a civil war in Belarus yet, especially if the military is split.

It's a historically brutal authoritarian regime propped up by Russia. Was under all sorts of sanctions even before the Ukraine war started.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Belarusian opposition claiming responsibility for the attack on a Russian early warning plane parked in Belarus airbase. Claim to have been assisted by Belarusian military staff. Can see there being a civil war in Belarus yet, especially if the military is split.

If there is Russia will get involved, but as usual claim they're not. They won't be willing to lose such a puppet regime.

 

[SBAndy]

If there is Russia will get involved, but as usual claim they're not. They won't be willing to lose such a puppet regime.

Do they have the resource to fight on 2 fronts? Is this why it’s happening now?

 

[Flying Fokker]

Do they have the resource to fight on 2 fronts? Is this why it’s happening now?

The would be interesting.

 

[PVA]

Do they have the resource to fight on 2 fronts? Is this why it’s happening now?

They don't have the resources to fight on one (admittedly massive) front.

 

[PVA]

Something happening in Bryansk - inside Russia.

Claims that Ukrainian saboteurs have entered a town or village and taken some hostages.

It’s either a false flag by Russia, or some Ukranians gone rogue.

Either way Putin has labelled it a ‘terrorist act’ (the fucking brass neck on him). So expect an escalation of attacks on public infrastructure from Russia over the coming days.

 

[Grendel]

Something happening in Bryansk - inside Russia.

Claims that Ukrainian saboteurs have entered a town or village and taken some hostages.

It’s either a false flag by Russia, or some Ukranians gone rogue.

Either way Putin has labelled it a ‘terrorist act’ (the fucking brass neck on him). So expect an escalation of attacks on public infrastructure from Russia over the coming days.

It would certainly add a new dimension to the conflict