USSR invades Ukraine. (75 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

The west also “wholesale invaded” another countries. If they’d had the level of funding going to Ukraine I’m sure they’d also have been able to put up a fight.

I’m not sure what your point is. Are you saying we shouldn’t support Ukraine in defence of its own country because no one helped out Iraq?

 

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[Grendel]

And I don’t know anyone who doesn’t think that Tony Blair isn’t a war criminal, either at the time or retrospectively including a cousin of mine who fought in the first gulf war. I’m not sure what your point is unless you’re arguing that 2 wrongs make a right.

We all know you are a political chameleon - my point is most people on here will have voted for Blair before, during and after the Gulf War. You I assume voted for Cameron despite his meddling in Syria

If Ukraine was sine far flung place of zero strategic interest no one would give a flying fuck about it

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The west has been taking part in enforced regime change over the last couple of decades and killing innocent people - there wasn’t the same level of concern then.

I criticised all of them too. As did Mr Corbyn curiously

 

[skybluetony176]

We all know you are a political chameleon - my point is most people on here will have voted for Blair before, during and after the Gulf War. You I assume voted for Cameron despite his meddling in Syria

If Ukraine was sine far flung place of zero strategic interest no one would give a flying fuck about it

Like Ukraine I voted in free, open elections. Russia doesn’t. The people of Ukraine voted to be closer to Europe. The despot dictator in Russia didn’t like it so invaded, first in a proxy war then in a full scale invasion. You seem to be oblivious to the fact that you had the option of voting Blair and Cameron out, whether you’d help vote them in or not is irrelevant. Russians will not have the same luxury.

Just because Ukraine isn’t a far flung country country of no strategic importance is not a reason to not help them. You’re arguing against yourself.

 

[Grendel]

Like Ukraine I voted in free, open elections. Russia doesn’t. The people of Ukraine voted to be closer to Europe. The despot dictator in Russia didn’t like it so invaded, first in a proxy war then in a full scale invasion. You seem to be oblivious to the fact that you had the option of voting Blair and Cameron out, whether you’d help vote them in or not is irrelevant. Russians will not have the same luxury.

Just because Ukraine isn’t a far flung country country of no strategic importance is not a reason to not help them. You’re arguing against yourself.

lots of waffle and zero substance as usual Tony

 

[Flying Fokker]

saw an interesting roundtable of former US & European intelligence heads and politicians discuss this last week. They concluded Trump playing to his audience but the reality is US needs European alliance/support due to the increasing closeness of Russia & China. He may apply pressure to get Ukraine to make some concessions but can't afford to let Russia get too much so wouldn't pull the plug enough to allow Russia to hold everything it has taken.

He’s as daft as Putin

 

[PVA]

incredible and you teach children

Fucking hell. Your constant defence of Russia is just dreadful.

 

[David O'Day]

Fucking hell. Your constant defence of Russia is just dreadful.

His contrarian online persona has gone down a rabbit hole

 

[shmmeee]

“Iraq was bad because a sovereign nation was invaded. So we shouldn’t stop a sovereign nation being invaded because that would be bad. Iamverysmart”

 

[Grendel]

“Iraq was bad because a sovereign nation was invaded. So we shouldn’t stop a sovereign nation being invaded because that would be bad. Iamverysmart”

You backed the illegal invasion I think?

 

[PVA]

Russia: bombs schools and hospitals, fires a tank round at an elderly civilian couple from point blank range, shells 'safe' humanitarian corridors, beheads captives

Grendel: Russia was provoked.


Ukraine: makes a shitty phone call

Grendel: This must be condemned. Ukraine should cede to Russia. Erm...Tony Blair.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You backed the illegal invasion I think?

You said Russia was provoked into invading Ukraine. Just contrarian posting, I get it, but even so.

 

[Grendel]

You said Russia was provoked into invading Ukraine. Just contrarian posting, I get it, but even so.

I said the provocation from a Russian mindset - its not even disputed by US political figures

 

[Grendel]

Russia: bombs schools and hospitals, fires a tank round at an elderly civilian couple from point blank range, shells 'safe' humanitarian corridors, beheads captives

Grendel: Russia was provoked.


Ukraine: makes a shitty phone call

Grendel: This must be condemned. Ukraine should cede to Russia. Erm...Tony Blair.

The strange thing is you’ve decided you have no opinion on the Gulf War as you were not old enough to have a view on it

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I said the provocation from a Russian mindset - its not even disputed by US political figures

You have also said you thought it best to let Putin crack on with it and that Ukraine should accept giving him territory in exchange for peace. You’re either being a contrarian or actually empathise with the invasion

 

[Grendel]

You have also said you thought it best to let Putin crack on with it and that Ukraine should accept giving him territory in exchange for peace. You’re either being a contrarian or actually empathise with the invasion

I accept the ukraines desire to defend its territory - it’s their legitimate right. I reject the strategy we have adopted in making any attempt to defend Ukraine - it has no strategic importance to us

 

[skybluetony176]

I accept the ukraines desire to defend its territory - it’s their legitimate right. I reject the strategy we have adopted in making any attempt to defend Ukraine - it has no strategic importance to us

So by that reasoning you must back the invasion of Iraq because it has strategical value to us.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I accept the ukraines desire to defend its territory - it’s their legitimate right. I reject the strategy we have adopted in making any attempt to defend Ukraine - it has no strategic importance to us

I disagree

 

[Deleted member 9744]

I accept the ukraines desire to defend its territory - it’s their legitimate right. I reject the strategy we have adopted in making any attempt to defend Ukraine - it has no strategic importance to us

Is strategic importance the only relevant criteria? Also does it really have no strategic importance. The real reason is that it is not part of NATO surely?

 

[Deleted member 9744]

So by that reasoning you must back the invasion of Iraq because it has strategical value to us.

So does Ukraine, both in terms of geography and food security.

 

[PVA]

Grendel's 'hilarious' new profile header image says it all really.

He's so cool.

 

[David O'Day]

Grendel's 'hilarious' new profile header image says it all really.

He's so cool.

young stalin was better looking than grenners ever was

 

[PVA]

young stalin was better looking than grenners ever was

I wasn't referring to that one, have a look at the header on his profile

But yeah young Stalin was a right handsome bastard!

 

[Evo1883]

That isn’t controversial surely? It’s a statement of fact.

I think it's more important to show the human side of you before the political sometimes

 

[Grendel]

I think it is actually safe to say at best apathy rules on this topic. The usual fruitcakes and armchair generals will attempt to take some high ground but in reality its an entrenched war and no one in the larger community cares any more

 

[Grendel]

I disagree

Which is fine and an interest based on concern - I think its nonsense - but at least its not purely emotional angst.

 

[Evo1883]

Should another country invade north Korea the attitude towards said country would be completely different .. such is life

 

[Grendel]

Should another country invade north Korea the attitude towards said country would be completely different .. such is life

Indeed so.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think it's more important to show the human side of you before the political sometimes

I'm not sure what you mean by that. It isn't controversial to say that in order for the fighting to stop Putin needs to withdraw his forces.

 

[Evo1883]

People only really care because our government told them to care , and our media told them to care , Ukraine is home to some of the most violent right wing nutters in Europe, as is Russia.

It's all nonsense

 

[Evo1883]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. It isn't controversial to say that in order for the fighting to stop Putin needs to withdraw his forces.

I think the video is disgraceful , shows a real neanderthal attitude during conflict..

Can you imagine if British or iraqi soldiers did the same during that conflict?

If he was British he'd likely be jailed after court martial

 

[skybluetony176]

So does Ukraine, both in terms of geography and food security.

I agree

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Which is fine and an interest based on concern - I think its nonsense - but at least its not purely emotional angst.

It's a vast amount of territory on the doorstep of central Europe and home to a considerable chunk of food and natural resource supply. I think allowing Putin to have some or all of it would be a grave error.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think the video is disgraceful , shows a real neanderthal attitude during conflict..

Can you imagine if British or iraqi soldiers did the same during that conflict?

Why do people think I support the video?

 

[Grendel]

People only really care because our government told them to care , and our media told them to care , Ukraine is home to some of the most violent right wing nutters in Europe, as is Russia.

It's all nonsense

Of course its nonsense. Russia is the US big bad boogeyman and the rest of us - well mostly us actually - just fall in line, salute the star spangled banner and obey.