Thursday 4th May (20 Viewers)

[EalingSB]

I often think Labour don’t play up to the fact that Starmer is a fairly regular bloke (apart from being a knight!). Working parents, University of Leeds, Arsenal season ticket, plays 5-a-side every week. Labour are in an invidious position because the Tories have decimated the public purse and services.

 

---

[shmmeee]

It is true though. I'm of an age to of witnessed it.

I was in the poll tax riots and anti Thatcher marches, but trust me, I don't know many of my age who would of even considered voting for that prick Corbyn at the last election

The next general election will undoubtedly be closer, but in all honesty, Starmer has got fuck all going for him apart from the fact that he isn't Rishi Sunak, and will that be enough? It's hardly a manifesto.

Incidentally, there was an old saying that used to piss me off big time, but now kind of rings true.....

"If your not a socialist in your twenties, then you have no heart, if your still a socialist in your forties, then you have no brain"

Thus is a bit out of date really. Everyone working age votes left on average. The right is for people who don’t work generally.

 

[fatso]

Thus is a bit out of date really. Everyone working age votes left on average. The right is for people who don’t work generally.

I think it's more to do with where you work and even what industry your in.

I have a good friend in the military where he says they nearly all vote Tory.

I work in engineering where its more divided in spite of being unionised.

I have a daughter who's a teacher and she says they are nearly all loony lefties.

 

[The Philosopher]

Thus is a bit out of date really. Everyone working age votes left on average. The right is for people who don’t work generally.

Oh mate, it’s the non-working who vote Tory?

With all due respect…..

 

[shmmeee]

I think it's more to do with where you work and even what industry your in.

I have a good friend in the military where he says they nearly all vote Tory.

I work in engineering where its more divided in spite of being unionised.

I have a daughter who's a teacher and she says they are nearly all loony lefties.

Education level is the one of the biggest predictors of vote post Brexit. I’ve worked in property which is mostly Tory, finance which was split and tech which is mostly left. Public services tend to be left regardless because they see the impact of lack of funding. It’s similar in the NHS but at lower bands less so.

Really I think it’s about assets. If you’re retired or own property you want to vote Tory to keep inflation down and asset prices high. If you’re working age and trying to make your way in the world you want opportunity and low asset prices to get onto the ladder.

A lot of “working class” people now are asset rich because of the housing bubble and RTB and so align more with the Tories.

All the evidence shows that the Boris voters are leaving again under Sunak and that they are left wing economically BTW. That’s why Boris campaigned on funding public services not cutting taxes.

 

[The Philosopher]

Education level is the one of the biggest predictors of vote post Brexit. I’ve worked in property which is mostly Tory, finance which was split and tech which is mostly left. Public services tend to be left regardless because they see the impact of lack of funding. It’s similar in the NHS but at lower bands less so.

Really I think it’s about assets. If you’re retired or own property you want to vote Tory to keep inflation down and asset prices high. If you’re working age and trying to make your way in the world you want opportunity and low asset prices to get onto the ladder.

A lot of “working class” people now are asset rich because of the housing bubble and RTB and so align more with the Tories.

All the evidence shows that the Boris voters are leaving again under Sunak and that they are left wing economically BTW. That’s why Boris campaigned on funding public services not cutting taxes.

Boris won because he was leant the Brexit Party vote (who has just trounced the Tories in the last election). Those voters were “OB & CS” voters (if you subscribe to 2d electoral calculus views) combined.

BP voters make up of a lot of blue collar ex Labour non-Uni Ed folks. That’s who Boris tried to keep.

But other than that yes, those with assets don’t like the idea to higher taxes which left parties like to inflict historically on the better off.

The spice in the mix is the ever growing Muslim vote. Traditionally labour but struggled to endorse Eddie Izzard here in Sheffield. I’ll leave that there.

At some point that growing voting demographic will realise that the Conservative Party has more “traditionalist” values in line with theirs.

That’s when things will flip around.

Changing times.

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

I often think Labour don’t play up to the fact that Starmer is a fairly regular bloke (apart from being a knight!). Working parents, University of Leeds, Arsenal season ticket, plays 5-a-side every week. Labour are in an invidious position because the Tories have decimated the public purse and services.

Starmer did attend a fee paying private school (his parents paid his fees for his later education there) and he did go to Oxford university.
My problem with him is he is a vacuous fake who would say anything the next focus group or internal poll came up with. He’s spent 2 years increasingly moulding Labour to the views of right wing media editors so he can ‘win over’ Daily Mail, Sun and Express readers.
He is no better than Cameron.
I’ll personally vote Green and they will likely win where I live.

 

[shmmeee]

Boris won because he was leant the Brexit Party vote (who has just trounced the Tories in the last election). Those voters were “OB & CS” voters (if you subscribe to 2d electoral calculus views) combined.

BP voters make up of a lot of blue collar ex Labour non-Uni Ed folks. That’s who Boris tried to keep.

But other than that yes, those with assets don’t like the idea to higher taxes which left parties like to inflict historically on the better off.

The spice in the mix is the ever growing Muslim vote. Traditionally labour but struggled to endorse Eddie Izzard here in Sheffield. I’ll leave that there.

At some point that growing voting demographic will realise that the Conservative Party has more “traditionalist” values in line with theirs.

That’s when things will flip around.

Changing times.

Nah, Boris won because he pressed the “Hang the Pedos and Fund the NHS” cheat button in British politics. The majority voter block in this country has for a long time been economically left wing and socially conservative. I imagine you know this considering your previous party affiliations. Previously Labour offer social liberalism and economic authoritarianism and Tories the opposite. You win from the centre by either being economically left like Boris or socially right like Blair depending on where you’re starting from.

 

[fatso]

Education level is the one of the biggest predictors of vote post Brexit. I’ve worked in property which is mostly Tory, finance which was split and tech which is mostly left. Public services tend to be left regardless because they see the impact of lack of funding. It’s similar in the NHS but at lower bands less so.

Really I think it’s about assets. If you’re retired or own property you want to vote Tory to keep inflation down and asset prices high. If you’re working age and trying to make your way in the world you want opportunity and low asset prices to get onto the ladder.

A lot of “working class” people now are asset rich because of the housing bubble and RTB and so align more with the Tories.

All the evidence shows that the Boris voters are leaving again under Sunak and that they are left wing economically BTW. That’s why Boris campaigned on funding public services not cutting taxes.

I agree to a large extent.

If "working class people are now asset rich" thanks to the tories, due inpart to RTB and favourable opportunities like stamp duty reductions for first time buyers etc, that has to be a good thing surely.

It might go some way to explain why Labour opposed RTB as the last thing they want is people raising themselves out of poverty.

As you pointed out, asset rich working people ain't voting socialist, so Labour will have to become far more centralist to appeal to their once core support.
That's something Tony Blair recognised and why he was the last Labour leader to win an election, and only the second Labour leader to win a general election since ww2!
(Although he turned out to be a right c**t)

Boris won purely because he had a clear message and a defined plan for Brexit, to this day I don't know what labour's plan is or was.

However, since the last election the world has changed and the Tories have managed to properly fuck things up, and some kind of change is definitely required, whether that's a labour government or not remains to be seen, but if Starmer can't pull off a victory now, he never will.

 

[WestEndAgro]

The whole voting landscape changed with the Brexit Vote. Blue collar vote switched from Labour to Boris.

And thank fuck they did, imagine having Corbyn and Dianne Abbott running the country, I wouldn't want either to run a tap.

 

[shmmeee]

I agree to a large extent.

If "working class people are now asset rich" thanks to the tories, due inpart to RTB and favourable opportunities like stamp duty reductions for first time buyers etc, that has to be a good thing surely.

It might go some way to explain why Labour opposed RTB as the last thing they want is people raising themselves out of poverty.

As you pointed out, asset rich working people ain't voting socialist, so Labour will have to become far more centralist to appeal to their once core support.
That's something Tony Blair recognised and why he was the last Labour leader to win an election, and only the second Labour leader to win a general election since ww2!
(Although he turned out to be a right c**t)

Boris won purely because he had a clear message and a defined plan for Brexit, to this day I don't know what labour's plan is or was.

However, since the last election the world has changed and the Tories have managed to properly fuck things up, and some kind of change is definitely required, whether that's a labour government or not remains to be seen, but if Starmer can't pull off a victory now, he never will.

I think most of the housing bubble happened under Labour didn’t it?

The problem is things like RTB and FTB schemes pump up demand and RTB and lack of council building means no extra supply which just raises house prices. Great if you’re on the ladder, not so much if you want a healthy economy with people freely moving and having disposable income because their mortgage isn’t half their pay packet.

 

[The Philosopher]

I think most of the housing bubble happened under Labour didn’t it?

The problem is things like RTB and FTB schemes pump up demand and RTB and lack of council building means no extra supply which just raises house prices. Great if you’re on the ladder, not so much if you want a healthy economy with people freely moving and having disposable income because their mortgage isn’t half their pay packet.

These are the problems with basing your economy around the demands created by population growth.

House building and mortgage lending are great for the economy short term.

Labour pressed their cheat button by encouraging EU 20 odd year old migrants. No problem with that: educated at a different country expense and then human resource at a stage in life to create economic growth. (Although actually immoral in a way) That leads to house building and mortgage lending to house more and more people.

There’s a big train wreck coming:

Brexit, rightly or wrongly, has led to a decrease in EU 20 odd year old migrants. Hence worker shortages in things like hospitality and harvesting. Hence increases in wage and costs passed on as part of inflation.

Next, demand for new housing will decrease (not yet, but soon) as less 20 odd year olds coming in and a sub RL birth rate means less people turning 25 year on year - less demand for houses.

Less demand for houses - prices fall - negative equity at high int rates - perfect storm.

Laugh at this now - see later on.

 

[SkyblueDad]

People vote Governments out.
The big Tory problem is in three years after a thumping victory at the last GE and an obliterated Labour Party they have seriously f””ked up at almost every level into their third leader and PM who with his Cheshire cat grin is fooling no one. They will lose 50% of their “red wall”

Labour is now a long way from its cloth cap and bicycle clip past and Keir Starmer has tapped into that.

 

[SkyBlueMatt]

This board is so left wing.

Interesting.

Explains a lot.

Not really, the Tories have move so far right that anyone centre is declared left.

People who were right leaning 10 years ago would now be described as woke lefties.

Neither describe me, I voted Corbyn.

 

[The Philosopher]

Not really, the Tories have move so far right that anyone centre is declared left.

People who were right leaning 10 years ago would now be described as woke lefties.

Neither describe me, I voted Corbyn.

I actually liked Corbyn. His stance on a few things such as Eire didn’t fit but you gotta admire his antiestablishment grit.

 

[SkyBlueMatt]

I actually liked Corbyn. His stance on a few things such as Eire didn’t fit but you gotta admire his antiestablishment grit.

Definitely, he would have been something completely different, now we have a choice of Tory or Tory-lite. Right wing populism. I didn't agree with everything, and strongly disagreed with some but he wasn't in it for his own gain. He has some dodgy beliefs but they pale in comparison to what the Tories have said and done. People brush that off and forget it because the media (inc social) has done such a good job of manipulating people to vote against their own interests and distracted them from the real problems.

I hate that I have to vote for this current Labour party and Tony Blair, sorry I mean Starmer. Every time he open's his mouth it makes me want to vote for them less and less.

 

[fatso]

These are the problems with basing your economy around the demands created by population growth.

House building and mortgage lending are great for the economy short term.

Labour pressed their cheat button by encouraging EU 20 odd year old migrants. No problem with that: educated at a different country expense and then human resource at a stage in life to create economic growth. (Although actually immoral in a way) That leads to house building and mortgage lending to house more and more people.

There’s a big train wreck coming:

Brexit, rightly or wrongly, has led to a decrease in EU 20 odd year old migrants. Hence worker shortages in things like hospitality and harvesting. Hence increases in wage and costs passed on as part of inflation.

Next, demand for new housing will decrease (not yet, but soon) as less 20 odd year olds coming in and a sub RL birth rate means less people turning 25 year on year - less demand for houses.

Less demand for houses - prices fall - negative equity at high int rates - perfect storm.

Laugh at this now - see later on.

That's very true, but (there's always a but)
The brexit policy that severely reduced the number of legal migrants could, and inevitably will be reversed in some way as the effects take their toll on the economy.

I'm not saying Brexit itself will be reversed, but I'm sure a political solution that allows people with jobs, to come here for a year or 2 will materialise at some stage in the future.

The effects on the housing market caused by a falling birth rate however, cannot easily be rectified, and as more of us become pensioners and less of us (in proportion) are working tax payers, the outcome for the economy (not to mention the NHS) is potentially disastrous.

This is when I'd expect Government policy to change dramatically, and I'd imagine our borders will have to open to attract young people from all over the world to (legally) flood in.

So, in short, we will flip from "taking back control of our borders" to actively encouraging immigration. In fact (eventually) I'd expect us to have to compete with other European countries to attract immigrants.

 

[Ian1779]

And thank fuck they did, imagine having Corbyn and Dianne Abbott running the country, I wouldn't want either to run a tap.

When it comes to Maths ability - Diane Abbott > Priti Patel

 

[shmmeee]

These are the problems with basing your economy around the demands created by population growth.

House building and mortgage lending are great for the economy short term.

Labour pressed their cheat button by encouraging EU 20 odd year old migrants. No problem with that: educated at a different country expense and then human resource at a stage in life to create economic growth. (Although actually immoral in a way) That leads to house building and mortgage lending to house more and more people.

There’s a big train wreck coming:

Brexit, rightly or wrongly, has led to a decrease in EU 20 odd year old migrants. Hence worker shortages in things like hospitality and harvesting. Hence increases in wage and costs passed on as part of inflation.

Next, demand for new housing will decrease (not yet, but soon) as less 20 odd year olds coming in and a sub RL birth rate means less people turning 25 year on year - less demand for houses.

Less demand for houses - prices fall - negative equity at high int rates - perfect storm.

Laugh at this now - see later on.

If population doesn’t grow you have serious economic issues. See Japan. 20 year olds have already been educated abroad which is a huge saving, and are likely to pay tax, not use many services, and go home when they’re older or integrate.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Oh mate, it’s the non-working who vote Tory?

With all due respect…..

Working aged people generally vote Labour

 

[fernandopartridge]

And thank fuck they did, imagine having Corbyn and Dianne Abbott running the country, I wouldn't want either to run a tap.

How original

 

[Deleted member 5849]

How original

Tbf it worked really well voting for the other lot. Never had it so good...

 

[fatso]

Working aged people generally vote Labour

Not any more, nowadays working people have the sense to listen to all party's manifestos before deciding which complete load of bullshit to vote for.

 

[clint van damme]

I agree to a large extent.

If "working class people are now asset rich" thanks to the tories, due inpart to RTB and favourable opportunities like stamp duty reductions for first time buyers etc, that has to be a good thing surely.

It might go some way to explain why Labour opposed RTB as the last thing they want is people raising themselves out of poverty.

As you pointed out, asset rich working people ain't voting socialist, so Labour will have to become far more centralist to appeal to their once core support.
That's something Tony Blair recognised and why he was the last Labour leader to win an election, and only the second Labour leader to win a general election since ww2!
(Although he turned out to be a right c**t)

Boris won purely because he had a clear message and a defined plan for Brexit, to this day I don't know what labour's plan is or was.

However, since the last election the world has changed and the Tories have managed to properly fuck things up, and some kind of change is definitely required, whether that's a labour government or not remains to be seen, but if Starmer can't pull off a victory now, he never will.

The tories have fucked things up? You think them siphoning off all the money and assets they have to their cronies was accidental?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Not any more, nowadays working people have the sense to listen to all party's manifestos before deciding which complete load of bullshit to vote for.

It's only the over 50s where the majority start to vote Tory - the majority of years of 'working age' are below 50. Average age of somebody in employment is 41.

 

[Nick]

It's only the over 50s where the majority start to vote Tory - the majority of years of 'working age' are below 50. Average age of somebody in employment is 41.

View attachment 29355

Who's the grey and sky blue?

 

[shmmeee]

Who's the grey and sky blue?

other and Brexit Party I think

 

[Nick]

My options

Linda Joyce Bigham	Labour
Alan Norman Howard Checklin	Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition
Danny Foulstone	Green Party
William Sidhu	Conservative
Sian Williamson	Coventry Citizens Party

 

[duffer]

I'd vote for the green party but can't get past the nonce situation.

The Challinor thing, you mean? Dreadful mate, but it's one person not a whole party...

Not any more, nowadays working people have the sense to listen to all party's manifestos before deciding which complete load of bullshit to vote for.

If there's one thing that I'm certain never happens, it's that working people who aren't genuinely interested in politics (i.e. the majority of them), read party manifestos.

Hence the usual trite bollocks about loony lefties etc.. when Corbyn's policies (for example) were generally very popular.

Boris got in because of three words "Get Brexit Done". No one really knew what the fuck that meant, least of all that lying, corrupt fuckwit, but it was nice and simple.

This time Starmer will get in because of five words, "It's time for a change". Most people won't have a clue what that change will be either, including that dissembling, vacuous, twat. But again it's nice and simple for people who don't want to think too hard.

Here's my prediction: Under Starmer, very little will change, and in five or ten years we'll likely be back under a "rehabilitated" Tory government (having had a period where they couldn't screw anything else up).

I've actually mislaid my postal vote, which is this town is no great loss. If I went with anyone though, this time it would probably be Green.

 

[Nick]

The Challinor thing, you mean? Dreadful mate, but it's one person not a whole party...

Yeah I get that, however it was local too.

 

[fatso]

Who's the grey and sky blue?

Trans men and Trans women?

 

[Otis]

My options

Linda Joyce Bigham	Labour
Alan Norman Howard Checklin	Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition
Danny Foulstone	Green Party
William Sidhu	Conservative
Sian Williamson	Coventry Citizens Party

Yay, I know Danny Foulstone. Top lad.

Vote for him.

 

[Nick]

Yay, I know Danny Foulstone. Top lad.

Vote for him.

I don't, haven't heard anything about any of them to make me want to.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The Challinor thing, you mean? Dreadful mate, but it's one person not a whole party...


If there's one thing that I'm certain never happens, it's that working people who aren't genuinely interested in politics (i.e. the majority of them), read party manifestos.

Hence the usual trite bollocks about loony lefties etc.. when Corbyn's policies (for example) were generally very popular.

Boris got in because of three words "Get Brexit Done". No one really knew what the fuck that meant, least of all that lying, corrupt fuckwit, but it was nice and simple.

This time Starmer will get in because of five words, "It's time for a change". Most people won't have a clue what that change will be either, including that dissembling, vacuous, twat. But again it's nice and simple for people who don't want to think too hard.

Here's my prediction: Under Starmer, very little will change, and in five or ten years we'll likely be back under a "rehabilitated" Tory government (having had a period where they couldn't screw anything else up).

I've actually mislaid my postal vote, which is this town is no great loss. If I went with anyone though, this time it would probably be Green.

If people had actually read Boris' manifesto then they'd have never voted for him. Absolutely nothing in it except Get Brexit Done for every single issue. No explanation of how Brexit was being done, or how it would solve that particular issue.

Frankly if such flimsy stuff would be enough to make a person vote for them, I'd suggest they're not the type of person to read manifesto's properly anyway.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

If population doesn’t grow you have serious economic issues. See Japan. 20 year olds have already been educated abroad which is a huge saving, and are likely to pay tax, not use many services, and go home when they’re older or integrate.

But that just goes to show that the entire premise economics is built on is totally unfeasible. Population cannot grow in perpetuity. There isn't the space or resources for that, and the more populations grow the more likely fights over territory. In fact, pretty much any problem we have you can link almost directly to population growth.

Vote growth, vote war.

We need a complete rethink and focus on more equal distribution of resources and maintaining a sustainable population level.