USSR invades Ukraine. (19 Viewers)

[PVA]

The tone of your message is pretty clear

Is it? What is the tone?

 

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[skybluetony176]

It really is that simple

Never said it was simple. But what other options are there? The reality is Ukraine is a sovereign democracy, I thought you believed in that as a brexit supporter? The reality is except for a minority in a tiny sliver of Ukraine the sovereign country of Ukraine voted in a pro European government, which incidentally didn’t necessarily mean anti-Russia at that time. The lunatic you keep batting for come to that conclusion, riled up the minority and caused a civil war then used that war to attempt to invade the rest of Ukraine and overthrow their democratically elected government. The people of Ukraine were always going to fight, you saw the coverage just like me of housewives giving the invading army seeds to put in their pockets so when they die flowers will grow from their corpses, you like me saw whole communities coming together to make Molotov cocktails, this is a nation that was always going to fight the invasion. So then you have 2 choices, support democracy and sovereignty as we have been doing or let them fight with Molotov cocktails and inferior equipment prolonging the war that was inevitable once Russia invaded.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Never said it was simple. But what other options are there? The reality is Ukraine is a sovereign democracy, I thought you believed in that as a brexit supporter? The reality is except for a minority in a tiny sliver of Ukraine the sovereign country of Ukraine voted in a pro European government, which incidentally didn’t necessarily mean anti-Russia at that time. The lunatic you keep batting for come to that conclusion, riled up the minority and caused a civil war then used that war to attempt to invade the rest of Ukraine and overthrow their democratically elected government. The people of Ukraine were always going to fight, you saw the coverage just like me of housewives giving the invading army seeds to put in their pockets so when they die flowers will grow from their corpses, you like me saw whole communities coming together to make Molotov cocktails, this is a nation that was always going to fight the invasion. So then you have 2 choices, support democracy and sovereignty as we have been doing or let them fight with Molotov cocktails and inferior equipment prolonging the war that was inevitable once Russia invaded.

Dude, be more concise or at least use paragraphs

 

[skybluetony176]

I wonder if the pro Russian Ukrainian separatists that helped Russia kick this off in 2014 now regret that stance given Russia clearly doesn’t and never did give a shit about them. They’ll be extremists no doubt, there always is but I’d wager that the majority now regret their original stance and actions.

 

[Sick Boy]

Never said it was simple. But what other options are there? The reality is Ukraine is a sovereign democracy, I thought you believed in that as a brexit supporter? The reality is except for a minority in a tiny sliver of Ukraine the sovereign country of Ukraine voted in a pro European government, which incidentally didn’t necessarily mean anti-Russia at that time. The lunatic you keep batting for come to that conclusion, riled up the minority and caused a civil war then used that war to attempt to invade the rest of Ukraine and overthrow their democratically elected government. The people of Ukraine were always going to fight, you saw the coverage just like me of housewives giving the invading army seeds to put in their pockets so when they die flowers will grow from their corpses, you like me saw whole communities coming together to make Molotov cocktails, this is a nation that was always going to fight the invasion. So then you have 2 choices, support democracy and sovereignty as we have been doing or let them fight with Molotov cocktails and inferior equipment prolonging the war that was inevitable once Russia invaded.

If they'd been left to fight with "Molotov cocktails and inferior equipment", it wouldn't have prolonged the war, if anything it would have been the complete opposite.

 

[Grendel]

Never said it was simple. But what other options are there? The reality is Ukraine is a sovereign democracy, I thought you believed in that as a brexit supporter? The reality is except for a minority in a tiny sliver of Ukraine the sovereign country of Ukraine voted in a pro European government, which incidentally didn’t necessarily mean anti-Russia at that time. The lunatic you keep batting for come to that conclusion, riled up the minority and caused a civil war then used that war to attempt to invade the rest of Ukraine and overthrow their democratically elected government. The people of Ukraine were always going to fight, you saw the coverage just like me of housewives giving the invading army seeds to put in their pockets so when they die flowers will grow from their corpses, you like me saw whole communities coming together to make Molotov cocktails, this is a nation that was always going to fight the invasion. So then you have 2 choices, support democracy and sovereignty as we have been doing or let them fight with Molotov cocktails and inferior equipment prolonging the war that was inevitable once Russia invaded.

It’s ironic you call me Grendull when you seriously are the dullest fucking poster on here

Why waste time and energy posting this diatribe?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Never said it was simple. But what other options are there? The reality is Ukraine is a sovereign democracy, I thought you believed in that as a brexit supporter? The reality is except for a minority in a tiny sliver of Ukraine the sovereign country of Ukraine voted in a pro European government, which incidentally didn’t necessarily mean anti-Russia at that time. The lunatic you keep batting for come to that conclusion, riled up the minority and caused a civil war then used that war to attempt to invade the rest of Ukraine and overthrow their democratically elected government. The people of Ukraine were always going to fight, you saw the coverage just like me of housewives giving the invading army seeds to put in their pockets so when they die flowers will grow from their corpses, you like me saw whole communities coming together to make Molotov cocktails, this is a nation that was always going to fight the invasion. So then you have 2 choices, support democracy and sovereignty as we have been doing or let them fight with Molotov cocktails and inferior equipment prolonging the war that was inevitable once Russia invaded.

I'm not batting for any lunatic, just don't think humans are as expendable as you do.

 

[Grendel]

Considering the indulgence in destruction and killing on Russia's part, yes they should pay reparations. The idea you've floated where Ukraine gives up some territory in exchange for peace is straight out of the Sudetenland play book. It didn't stop the aggressor then and it wouldn't now as Putin doesn't recognise Ukraine's right to exist.

In fact, we don't even have to look to the 1930s for the best example, just look at 2014 instead.

Did the US pay reparations to Vietnam?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Did the US pay reparations to Vietnam?

They definitely should have. Agent Orange was a war crime on its own

 

[Sick Boy]

Considering the indulgence in destruction and killing on Russia's part, yes they should pay reparations. The idea you've floated where Ukraine gives up some territory in exchange for peace is straight out of the Sudetenland play book. It didn't stop the aggressor then and it wouldn't now as Putin doesn't recognise Ukraine's right to exist.

In fact, we don't even have to look to the 1930s for the best example, just look at 2014 instead.

Do you think the UK should pay them to Ireland too and give back the north of Ireland?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Do you think the UK should pay them to Ireland too and give back the north of Ireland?

According to the GFA the latter will be ‘given back’ when the people in NI want it to be. That is still clearly not the case. Worth noting that pre WW1 the British government had agreed Home Rule for the whole island and was deterred mostly by the UVF mobilising in the north to stop ‘Rome Rule’.

As for the former, the UK provided economic and food relief to the Republic for a good few decades after independence.

 

[SBT]

Come on then lads, we’re settling the bill for every conflict of the last few centuries, let’s pick up the pace, we’re not even going to make it to the Napoleonic Wars before kickoff at this rate.

 

[PVA]

The fucking deflections from the anti Ukraine lads in here are incredible

 

[skybluetony176]

If they'd been left to fight with "Molotov cocktails and inferior equipment", it wouldn't have prolonged the war, if anything it would have been the complete opposite.

That’s so naive. For example, see the Vietnam war. Massively outgunned by the US, The Viet Cong thought with little more than pitchforks and muskets in the early days and were never as well trained or armed as the NVA. They formed in the 1950’s and fought until 1973, the best part of 20 years and a death toll of over a million Viet Cong fighters. That is what we would be committing Ukrainians too if we’d not backed them. This is Russia’s Vietnam, just like the French and the US in Vietnam there is no win for Russia. It’s right that we’re on the right side of history.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That’s so naive. For example, see the Vietnam war. Massively outgunned by the US, The Viet Cong thought with little more than pitchforks and muskets in the early days and were never as well trained or armed as the NVA. They formed in the 1950’s and thought until 1973, the best part of 20 years and a death toll of over a million Viet Cong fighters. That is what we would be committing Ukrainians too if we’d not backed them. This is Russia’s Vietnam, just like the French and the US in Vietnam there is no win for Russia. It’s right that we’re on the right side of history.

They thought for over 20 years? What about?

 

[Grendel]

The fucking deflections from the anti Ukraine lads in here are incredible

“the anti Ukraine lads”

Goodies vs baddies again I see

 

[Grendel]

They definitely should have. Agent Orange was a war crime on its own

But they didn’t and they would laugh in your face for suggesting it

 

[fernandopartridge]

The fucking deflections from the anti Ukraine lads in here are incredible

Not wanting hundreds of thousands more Ukrainians killed is anti Ukraine isn't it

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[Sick Boy]

According to the GFA the latter will be ‘given back’ when the people in NI want it to be. That is still clearly not the case. Worth noting that pre WW1 the British government had agreed Home Rule for the whole island and was deterred mostly by the UVF mobilising in the north to stop ‘Rome Rule’.

As for the former, the UK provided economic and food relief to the Republic for a good few decades after independence.

So if Russian takes parts of Ukraine, puts settlers there who want to remain part of Russia and agrees to have a referendum in 100+ years, all while providing some food relief, it’s all good for peace?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

But they didn’t and they would laugh in your face for suggesting it

You were trying to get me to say they shouldn’t so deflect to this. Fair enough

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So if Russian takes parts of Ukraine, puts settlers there who want to remain part of Russia and agrees to have a referendum in 100+ years, all while providing some food relief, it’s all good for peace?

The settlers were put there hundreds of years ago and identify as British today. What would you do, forcibly evict all of their descendants? This isn’t quite the same as Russia actually manipulating votes in the present day.

 

[Grendel]

You were trying to get me to say they shouldn’t so deflect to this. Fair enough

No I’m saying they didn’t as oddly super powers do what they like so a statement saying Russia must deserves laughing at is it’s just playbook stuff

Even the US would laugh at such a suggestion

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No I’m saying they didn’t as oddly super powers do what they like so a statement saying Russia must deserves laughing at is it’s just playbook stuff

Even the US would laugh at such a suggestion

You have again confused ‘should’ with ‘will’.

 

[Grendel]

You have again confused ‘should’ with ‘will’.

So what was the point of saying it? They shouldn’t and they won’t

 

[PVA]

“the anti Ukraine lads”

Goodies vs baddies again I see

You're right it's really hard to distinguish who the 'baddies' are here

 

[Sick Boy]

The settlers were put there hundreds of years ago and identify as British today. What would you do, forcibly evict all of their descendants? This isn’t quite the same as Russia actually manipulating votes in the present day.

Does this reparations thing only apply to certain countries then?

 

[PVA]

Not wanting hundreds of thousands more Ukrainians killed is anti Ukraine isn't it

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No but being happy for 40m of them to live under the oppressive rule of a war criminal who thinks they don't have a right to exist is not great.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Does this reparations thing only apply to certain countries then?

Generally those who invade, murder and pillage but get defeated.

 

[SBT]

Does this reparations thing only apply to certain countries then?

I think he’s saying that the absence of a unifying theory of reparations across centuries of international war doesn’t mean you can’t justify them in the case of Russia-Ukraine in 2023.

 

[skybluetony176]

They thought for over 20 years? What about?

Probably about how another nation had invaded their country and victory was only one possible outcome regardless of how long that took.

 

[Grendel]

I think he’s saying that the absence of a unifying theory of reparations across centuries of international war doesn’t mean you can’t justify them in the case of Russia-Ukraine in 2023.

It’s never happening - unless a solution is going to found through discussions the west will waste billions rebuilding this wasteland and Mr Putin will just blow it all up again.

 

[wingy]

It’s never happening - unless a solution is going to found through discussions the west will waste billions rebuilding this wasteland and Mr Putin will just blow it all up again.

Well he won't, but it could be under another.

 

[PVA]

It’s never happening - unless a solution is going to found through discussions the west will waste billions rebuilding this wasteland and Mr Putin will just blow it all up again.

'Mr Putin' will be long dead by then.

Edit: beaten to it

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s never happening - unless a solution is going to found through discussions the west will waste billions rebuilding this wasteland and Mr Putin will just blow it all up again.

Russia think the solution is for Ukraine to surrender most of if not all the territory. Ukraine want Russia to piss off. Those aren’t mutually agreeable

 

[fernandopartridge]

It’s never happening - unless a solution is going to found through discussions the west will waste billions rebuilding this wasteland and Mr Putin will just blow it all up again.

The west doesn't see that as a waste, it's a massive economic opportunity

‘The World’s Largest Construction Site’: The Race Is On to Rebuild Ukraine (Published 2023)

As the country’s leaders lay postwar plans, companies from around the world are jockeying for advantage in what could be a multibillion-dollar effort, although one loaded with risk.

www.nytimes.com

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