“Lazy” (21 Viewers)

[Grendel]

I haven't ignored Kane, I just don't understand how he's pertinent to the discussion about players at the club? Hence the reply about Gyokeres.

You said that white players past or present weren’t accused of attitude issues. Wasn’t he white or doesn’t he fit the narrative?

 

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[Grendel]

Oh yes Shipley was accused of deliberately not trying

 

[napolimp]

On a number of occasions he was rightly called out for his selfish attitude and his reactions to team mates. Quite rightly too. Waghorn as well. Not forgetting the much maligned Thornton, not because he was Irish but because he had an attitude problem. Eccles has had dogs abuse for his corners. Is it his pasty complexion…. Nah he’s just shit at corners

"Selfish attitude" - which no one says by the way, you don't need to add attitude onto the word selfish - is not the same as "attitude problem".

And what have the complaints about Eccles corners got to do with anything?

Do you actually understand what the discussion is about?

 

[TomRad85]

Oh yes Shipley was accused of deliberately not trying

It is flawed. Sheaf got dogs abuse in his first season.

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[ms639]

Very good post. Some people too thick to understand it but not your fault OP


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[napolimp]

You said that white players past or present weren’t accused of attitude issues. Wasn’t he white or doesn’t he fit the narrative?

I've copied in my post below, clearly talking about Coventry and not analysing the entirety of footballing history. If you want to be pedantic because I haven't specifically mentioned the clubs name, then

I'm pretty sure Clarke-Salter got labelled as having an "attitude problem" (during second spell), although may be bad example due to the tweets situation. And I've seen a few on here alluding to MVE having an "attitude problem" as well. In fact, I think at least one poster threw Wright into that category. Really struggling to think of any white players, especially recently, who have had "attitude problems".

 

[False9]

You said that white players past or present weren’t accused of attitude issues. Wasn’t he white or doesn’t he fit the narrative?

You're rewriting history on Kyle, he was just considered shit.

Kevin Kyle

"I always thought he tried his hardest sometimes but he just was not very good at all. Especially for the wage he is on."

"I'm 100% serious. He puts the effort in, can head the ball and gives the team aggression which we all need. "

 

[Grendel]

"Selfish attitude" - which no one says by the way, you don't need to add attitude onto the word selfish - is not the same as "attitude problem".

And what have the complaints about Eccles corners got to do with anything?

Do you actually understand what the discussion is about?

Someone started a thread saying Shipley was lazy

Shipley

I think pretty much everyone would agree he doesn't have the ability for this level. That's OK. He's not the only one in the squad. But my god if you haven't got the ability then at least put the effort in. A total passenger today. Just ambled around the whole time, didn't press and close...

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[shmmeee]

It is flawed. Sheaf got dogs abuse in his first season.

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Not for being lazy tho. The point being raised is that specific insult is handed out to black players, particularly strikers, more than others. It’s not “only black players get criticism”.

I’m not convinced that unconscious bias is a real thing, the science seems shaky to me, but the lazy thing has been noticed a lot and I think it warrants specific discussion.

 

[napolimp]

Someone started a thread saying Shipley was lazy

Shipley

I think pretty much everyone would agree he doesn't have the ability for this level. That's OK. He's not the only one in the squad. But my god if you haven't got the ability then at least put the effort in. A total passenger today. Just ambled around the whole time, didn't press and close...

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

I'd refer you back to @robbiekeane post #78.

 

[Grendel]

I'd refer you back to @robbiekeane post #78.

You don’t need to as usual own analysis from SBT is flawed

In 2 minutes I found 3 posters who labelled Hamer as lazy

 

[Macca]

"Selfish attitude" - which no one says by the way, you don't need to add attitude onto the word selfish - is not the same as "attitude problem".

And what have the complaints about Eccles corners got to do with anything?

Do you actually understand what the discussion is about?

Yes thanks.

Sorry, “on a number of occasions he was called out for his selfish”

 

[TomRad85]

Not for being lazy tho. The point being raised is that specific insult is handed out to black players, particularly strikers, more than others. It’s not “only black players get criticism”.

I’m not convinced that unconscious bias is a real thing, the science seems shaky to me, but the lazy thing has been noticed a lot and I think it warrants specific discussion.

It was more, obviously classy player in Sheaf = shit. Super Max = cult hero. Sticking with stupid.

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[robbiekeane]

You don’t need to as usual own analysis from SBT is flawed

In 2 minutes I found 3 posters who labelled Hamer as lazy

Do you genuinely not understand the point?

Funny how some people are getting so miffed isn’t it, v telling

 

[napolimp]

You don’t need to as usual own analysis from SBT is flawed

In 2 minutes I found 3 posters who labelled Hamer as lazy

I agree with the data in terms of the wider footballing community.

In terms of the club itself, I do believe that if you analysed all the "tropes" aimed at players, you'd find a disproportionate amount targeting ethnic minorities.

Do you think Hamer is white?

 

[MTK]

Excellent post robbiekeane. Thanks for posting something I’ve often thought but not been brave enough to say myself.

 

[Otis]

Cough that wasn't Earlsdon though

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Was that a COVID cough?

 

[TomRad85]

Anyway, Wright is a good player, far from lazy and I think playing off the left of a 3 will be the making of him. Simms needs to be far better but I'd like to see him get a start as the focal point.

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[Grendel]

Do you genuinely not understand the point?

Funny how some people are getting so miffed isn’t it, v telling

Yes I do and I am hardly miffed - your point is there is a subliminal unconscious racism and association of physical attributes as opposed to association with other characteristics such as intelligence strategy and guile.

Unfortunately you now with the comment about “telling” and “miffed” ironically yourself adopt a lazy stereotype argument

 

[napolimp]

Yes I do and I am hardly miffed - your point is there is a subliminal unconscious racism and association of physical attributes as opposed to association with other characteristics such as intelligence strategy and guile.

Unfortunately you now with the comment about “telling” and “miffed” ironically yourself adopt a lazy stereotype argument

What's he stereotyping you as? An idiot?

 

[Otis]

I am 99.9% certain that many fans labelled Cyrille Regis as lazy when he first came here

He wasn't great at all when we first got him for sure, but it was just him style of play. I never saw his as lazy, but quite a number labelled him so.

I would love to see the stats in general, not just for our club, but all clubs.

Throughout history there has been a stereotyping of black people as being lazy

Would love to see all the stats.

Jacob Murphy was definitely seen as lazy by many. He clearly wasn't. He just was never a tackler and wasn't good at tracking back, but that wasn't his game.

He was frustrating at times, but hardly lazy.

 

[mmttww]

This thread is an embarrassment.

It's the complete opposite. It's what any decent forum should allow for and have space for. More of it would be good. Someone provoking a discussion with evidence to back up a position, asking people to consider their own position based on that evidence.

There's been decent back and forth - @Grendel took the time to read and reply with a bunch of counter examples. Calling it embarrassing feels like Piers Morgan calling people Snowflakes then losing his sh*t over Eurovision or vegan sausage rolls.

 

[baldy]

Wayyyyy too much overthinking going on by some posters on here - I never once think of a players colour if I think they’re lazy

Move on

 

[shmmeee]

It was more, obviously classy player in Sheaf = shit. Super Max = cult hero. Sticking with stupid.

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I think there’s a related thing about how fans love a shit player who “tries” (runs about) vs a classy one who doesn’t run about like a headless chicken.

 

[The Philosopher]

I am 99.9% certain that many fans labelled Cyrille Regis as lazy when he first came here

He wasn't great at all when we first got him for sure, but it was just his style of play. I never saw his as lazy, but quite a number labelled him so.

I would love to see the stats in general, not just for our club, but all clubs.

Throughout history there has been a stereotyping of black people as being lazy

Would love to see all the stats.

Jacob Murphy was definitely seen as lazy by many. He clearly wasn't. He just was never a tackler and wasn't good at tracking back, but that wasn't his game.

He was frustrating at times, but hardly lazy.

Compared to Dave Bennett (full of running) and Garry Thompson (all action) Cyrille appeared to put in less effort. Also, at WBA Cyrille apparently put in more effort. According to some (I think I read it in Thommo’s book or it might have been a Bennett podcast), Regis was off the rails and more likely partied out when he was first here and later found religion. It might be that he was hanging like a fruitbat on a Saturday. I’ll leave that there.

Also, Le Tissier was often labelled lazy. Now he’s labelled mad and is mainstream cancelled because of his unfashionable views and doesn’t get TV slots. Must be his skin colour.

 

[Otis]

Compared to Dave Bennett (full of running) and Garry Thompson (all action) Cyrille appeared to put in less effort. Also, at WBA Cyrille apparently put in more effort. According to some (I think I read it in Thommo’s book or it might have been a Bennett podcast), Regis was off the rails and more likely partied out when he was first here and later found religion. It might be that he was hanging like a fruitbat on a Saturday. I’ll leave that there.

Also, Le Tissier was often labelled lazy. Now he’s labelled mad and is mainstream cancelled because of his unfashionable views and doesn’t get TV slots. Must be his skin colour.

Or maybe it's because of his "unfashionable" views.

 

[Otis]

I honestly don't see any problem with this thread. I think it's fine to at least discuss it and no-one is forcing anyone to respond, or even read it for that matter.

If it's all pointless, don't read it.

As I say, I would like to see the general stats. That would give a much clearer picture.

 

[Blind-Faith]

Ridiculous post, I’ve been a big supporter of Wright all season and have been trying to sing their praises when others have been moaning about him but I can fully understand why people have called him “lazy”. It’s nothing to do with the colour of skin, it’s to do with the fact that he often doesn’t press as quickly as others or get into position quickly enough or attempt to get the ball off the opposition as much others, it’s as simple as that.

When you’ve got Godden next to him running around like a headless chicken it makes Wright look comparatively lazy, and as much I’ve been trying to provide an argument about other positive aspects of his game on here over the last few months, I get that he does come across as lazy.

To reduce his play style down to the colour of his skin is downright ridiculous and makes me think you’ve not watched many of our games properly, if at all.

This

 

[Blind-Faith]

Bright had an attitude problem and was as lazy as fuck

 

[The Philosopher]

I honestly don't see any problem with this thread. I think it's fine to at least discuss it and no-one is forcing anyone to respond, or even read it for that matter.

If it's all pointless, don't read it.

As I say, I would like to see the general stats. That would give a much clearer picture.

I think that people squandering their talent and opportunity is as much an issue as anything else.

Bright is a clear example. For balance, so was Kevin Thornton.

People bang on that I suggested we looked at Hudlin when he was non-league and local. “If he was any good, why isn’t he playing higher” droned on the know-it-alls. He was studying at Uni at the time and chose to complete his studies. Now, that to me was worthy of respect. Whether or not he turns out to be any good I still respect someone with that mindset.

Laziness has nothing to do with skin colour and people need to become less woke and more accountable for their choices, instead of blaming everyone else for their lot.

 

[procdoc]

You’re such a thick c**t

 

[procdoc]

I think that people squandering their talent and opportunity is as much an issue as anything else.

Bright is a clear example. For balance, so was Kevin Thornton.

People bang on that I suggested we looked at Hudlin when he was non-league and local. “If he was any good, why isn’t he playing higher” droned on the know-it-alls. He was studying at Uni at the time and chose to complete his studies. Now, that to me was worthy of respect. Whether or not he turns out to be any good I still respect someone with that mindset.

Laziness has nothing to do with skin colour and people need to become less woke and more accountable for their choices, instead of blaming everyone else for their lot.

Shock you’ve missed the point of the whole thread you moron

 

[shmmeee]

I think that people squandering their talent and opportunity is as much an issue as anything else.

Bright is a clear example. For balance, so was Kevin Thornton.

People bang on that I suggested we looked at Hudlin when he was non-league and local. “If he was any good, why isn’t he playing higher” droned on the know-it-alls. He was studying at Uni at the time and chose to complete his studies. Now, that to me was worthy of respect. Whether or not he turns out to be any good I still respect someone with that mindset.

Laziness has nothing to do with skin colour and people need to become less woke and more accountable for their choices, instead of blaming everyone else for their lot.

I think you’ve got this backwards.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The responses in this thread are certainly... interesting. Many not a fan of critical thinking then... and no I'm not sure I do agree with it in the specific instances wrt our players but... why dismiss a well thought out post and argument?

 

[djr8369]

I love how the data was presented in the first post yet the “facts don’t care about your feelings” crew are out in force crying about it and cherry picking data points.