“Lazy” (18 Viewers)

[Grendel]

What's he stereotyping you as? An idiot?

A somewhat ironic post

 

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[Otis]

I think that people squandering their talent and opportunity is as much an issue as anything else.

Bright is a clear example. For balance, so was Kevin Thornton.

People bang on that I suggested we looked at Hudlin when he was non-league and local. “If he was any good, why isn’t he playing higher” droned on the know-it-alls. He was studying at Uni at the time and chose to complete his studies. Now, that to me was worthy of respect. Whether or not he turns out to be any good I still respect someone with that mindset.

Laziness has nothing to do with skin colour and people need to become less woke and more accountable for their choices, instead of blaming everyone else for their lot.

Absolutely nothing to do with wokeness.

And you are right, laziness should have nothing to do with skin colour. But it most certainly has been a thing.

"Blacks are lazy" has certainly always been a thing.

Some players are lazy no matter what skin colour they are, but that wasn't the point of the thread.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Hadji Wright is lazy
Jay Bothroyd was lazy but very gifted
Mick Quinn was fat, round , great over two yards and had a knack for scoring loads of goals.

All factually correct.

 

[Otis]

Hadji Wright is lazy
Jay Bothroyd was lazy but very gifted
Mick Quinn was fat, round , great over two yards and had a knack for scoring loads of goals.

All factually correct.

I haven't seen enough of Wright to comment to be honest.

When I have seen him (only on TV mind), he hasn't looked lazy

I don't get to see all of the play though.

 

[PVA]

I'd be interested to know the average age of all the posters saying this is a load of shit. I think there's a generational aspect to it.

I'd also be interested to see their thoughts on BLM/taking the knee. I suspect there would be some very strong correlation.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'd be interested to know the average age of all the posters saying this is a load of shit. I think there's a generational aspect to it.

I'd also be interested to see their thoughts on BLM/taking the knee. I suspect there would be some very strong correlation.

Please don't set them off!

 

[PVA]

Please don't set them off!

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

I'd be interested to know the average age of all the posters saying this is a load of shit. I think there's a generational aspect to it.

I'd also be interested to see their thoughts on BLM/taking the knee. I suspect there would be some very strong correlation.

I'm going non binary after watching Dr Who last night so my opinion is even more important because I can save humanity.

 

[Grendel]

I'd be interested to know the average age of all the posters saying this is a load of shit. I think there's a generational aspect to it.

I'd also be interested to see their thoughts on BLM/taking the knee. I suspect there would be some very strong correlation.

I do something’s think you doth protest far too much

 

[Grendel]

As for “generational” most posters chatting “this shit” are in their 30’s

 

[MusicDating]

Ridiculous post, I’ve been a big supporter of Wright all season and have been trying to sing their praises when others have been moaning about him but I can fully understand why people have called him “lazy”. It’s nothing to do with the colour of skin, it’s to do with the fact that he often doesn’t press as quickly as others or get into position quickly enough or attempt to get the ball off the opposition as much others, it’s as simple as that.

When you’ve got Godden next to him running around like a headless chicken it makes Wright look comparatively lazy, and as much I’ve been trying to provide an argument about other positive aspects of his game on here over the last few months, I get that he does come across as lazy.

To reduce his play style down to the colour of his skin is downright ridiculous and makes me think you’ve not watched many of our games properly, if at all.

Clears ball from edge of own box -



10 secs later back in striker's role for Sheaf's throughball. The lazy bastard.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

I'd be interested to know the average age of all the posters saying this is a load of shit. I think there's a generational aspect to it.

I'd also be interested to see their thoughts on BLM/taking the knee. I suspect there would be some very strong correlation.

There was a very long thread on BLM and taking the knee.
As for any notion that attitudes to players is based on race etc it's been going on since the 1970s.
I happen to think Hadji Wright isn't giving 100% , which for me is unforgivable for any professional footballer.

Cyrille Regis was a hero. Gave his all. Was never a prolific goalscorer and never blessed with close control skills but attitude was first class.

James Madison. A really talent. Sad when he left but when he came back on loan he was bloody awful. Rolled around on the floor a lot and couldn't have cared less.

Lewis Hamilton is an absolute hero.

Race, colour etc nothing to do with it for me. If they are crap/lazy/brilliant they are there on merit.

 

[Otis]

There was a very long thread on BLM and taking the knee.
As for any notion that attitudes to players is based on race etc it's been going on since the 1970s.
I happen to think Hadji Wright isn't giving 100% , which for me is unforgivable for any professional footballer.

Cyrille Regis was a hero. Gave his all. Was never a prolific goalscorer and never blessed with close control skills but attitude was first class.

James Madison. A really talent. Sad when he left but when he came back on loan he was bloody awful. Rolled around on the floor a lot and couldn't have cared less.

Lewis Hamilton is an absolute hero.

Race, colour etc nothing to do with it for me. If they are crap/lazy/brilliant they are there on merit.

I do think you are wrong

If Wright wasn't giving 100% he wouldn't be playing. There is no way Robins would pick him

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Clears ball from edge of own box -

View attachment 32520

10 secs later back in striker's role for Sheaf's throughball. The lazy bastard.

View attachment 32521

...he's miles offside

 

[Otis]

...he's miles offside

So what you're saying is that he isn't too lazy, he's too fast.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

So what you're saying is that he isn't too lazy, he's too fast.

tbf I don't really want to bog this particular thread down with the Wright specifics, there are threads for that. It is where I think the OP doesn't necessarily apply to this specific though. I'd agree, as things stand it's hard to call him lazy but I think that's more people being slow to change their minds. There were definitely times earlier in the season where lazy was maybe a reasonable description - one time the crowd effectively told him to close down before he did. Then, however, we found out it may have actually been tactical instruction not to press so hard so fast, and you can also use the excuse of learning a new system.

But I could see why you'd call Wright lazy early on, even if I think it's not right with hindsight and how he is now.

But... the OP's linking to general stereotypes is a point well made, and does tie into some racial sterotypes. Of course a black player can be lazy, but that doesn't stop it being a negative stereotype over the years either, does it.

 

[MusicDating]

...he's miles offside

Sigh. Not surprised you ignored the point of my post though

 

[blunted]

Okay so you believe the argument is flawed about one example of many provided in one study out of 4.

What do you say about the data? We can all pick out random white players with attitude problems and black players who actually had poor attitudes, but we both know that isn’t what this is about.

They do not invalidate the broader pattern of racial bias observed in sports commentary and media representation. The key issue is not that these descriptions are never accurate or applicable to individual athletes, but that there’s a consistent, overarching trend where certain types of descriptions are disproportionately applied to athletes based on their race.

It’s important to differentiate between individual cases and systemic tendencies. While there will always be individual examples that don’t fit the general pattern, they don’t negate the existence of the pattern itself.

The goal is to highlight and address these broader, more pervasive trends that can influence public perception and contribute to stereotyping…

but you know that

If you try to have a sensible discussion, about a clearly documented issue with supporting evidence, it is inevitable the cherry pickers and people who are not presenting an evidence based reply will all come out of the woodwork in high dudgeon. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am stuck in the middle with you (and a few others).

 

[rob9872]

As someone yet to comment on this thread, I see fat people and old people have already been maligned by those on the 'right' side of the argument, seems I'm fair game!

Anyway can I remind people that we actually won 3-0 away yesterday. I'd say that the largest correlation you'll see, whichever way it falls, is those who go to the games and those who don't. Wright certainly wasn't lazy yesterday. Shit in parts I'll agree, in fact when he kicked it out for a throw in the second half embarrassingly poor, but not lazy.

 

[PVA]

When he kicked it out for a throw in the second half embarrassingly poor, but not lazy.

That was quite something.

In fact I'd go as far as saying it was so bad it was actually impressive

 

[shmmeee]

Kicking it out for a throw wasn’t even in his top three worst touches TBF. He definitely has weird brain farts, which is usually mentally related and to do with confidence and flow as much as anything.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

So what you're saying is that he isn't too lazy, he's too fast.

Not at all . You can't be too fast Otis, but he clearly isn't reading the game. He has great bursts of speed . He also spends a lot of time hanging around static on the halfway line . I rarely see him make the runs off the ball to pull defenders away which allows other attacking players in. He's poor in the air , couldn't trap a bag of sand or hold the ball up sufficiently. He's tall and occasionally quick . I'd expect a bit more for £7m.

 

[Hutch11]

Listen to the Millwall TV comms from yesterday
They were waxing lyrical about Wright all game
But they don't have confirmation bias to consider

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Sigh. Not surprised you ignored the point of my post though

View attachment 32523

The point he ran from A-B in about 10 seconds ?
Would you say his workrate is on a par with Bidwell, Allen or even Simms ?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The point he ran from A-B in about 10 seconds ?
Would you say his workrate is on a par with Bidwell, Allen or even Simms ?

tbf Allen is exceptional though, isn't he. You wouldn't expect Allen's workrate as par from just about any of the team.

 

[Orlando]

The point he ran from A-B in about 10 seconds ?
Would you say his workrate is on a par with Bidwell, Allen or even Simms ?

He’s poor in the air? Apart from that great header to win the game against Blackburn.

 

[oscillatewildly]

Compared to Dave Bennett (full of running) and Garry Thompson (all action) Cyrille appeared to put in less effort. Also, at WBA Cyrille apparently put in more effort. According to some (I think I read it in Thommo’s book or it might have been a Bennett podcast), Regis was off the rails and more likely partied out when he was first here and later found religion. It might be that he was hanging like a fruitbat on a Saturday. I’ll leave that there.

Also, Le Tissier was often labelled lazy. Now he’s labelled mad and is mainstream cancelled because of his unfashionable views and doesn’t get TV slots. Must be his skin colour.

It's true - Cyrille wasn't exactly a wow in his first couple of seasons with us.

 

[SBbucks]

He’s poor in the air? Apart from that great header to win the game against Blackburn.

That goal was well-taken, but one unchallenged header doesn’t make him good in the air. I don’t think I have seen him compete successfully for any aerial challenges all season, nor look interested in doing so. Whatever his strengths may or not be, there’s zero evidence that aerial ability/desire is one of them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[curly_tom]

I find this discussion interesting to read. A lot of people seem to be unable to separate the general from the specific. The OG is making an interesting and valid point about laguage bias (unconscious or conscious) and has given some statistics and examples to back up the argument. It seems like a serious topic that we, as a progressive group, should be able to discuss.It's totally fine to excuse yourself from being one of these people but to say it's not worth discussing is actually wrong.

I think some people are proving the point by dismissing it whilst others seem focussed on the individual examples. It doesn't matter whether an individual black or white player is lazy or not, the point is that there is a tendancy to use certain phrases when describing certain players based on skin colour. There is a set of language often used for black people a bit more than white people.

There are people on this forum who do a lot of campaigning against our players and it is noticeable that they are targeting mainly black or non-white players. This is a phenomenon which is happens often across football and in society in general. They might not even be aware they are doing it and threads like this might raise that awareness.

I am of the opinion that we should all be a bit more careful with the laguage we choose so we can make society a more equal place. I would like to think I don't make these mistakes but I am willing to take a look at myself and think a bot more carefully.

This doesn't mean that we can never call a black player lazy again but maybe we can ask ourselves if we would say the same thing to a white player in the same situation.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

He’s poor in the air? Apart from that great header to win the game against Blackburn.

How many 50/50 challenges does he win in the air ?

 

[SeaSeeEffCee]

I find this discussion interesting to read. A lot of people seem to be unable to separate the general from the specific. The OG is making an interesting and valid point about laguage bias (unconscious or conscious) and has given some statistics and examples to back up the argument. It seems like a serious topic that we, as a progressive group, should be able to discuss.It's totally fine to excuse yourself from being one of these people but to say it's not worth discussing is actually wrong.

I think some people are proving the point by dismissing it whilst others seem focussed on the individual examples. It doesn't matter whether an individual black or white player is lazy or not, the point is that there is a tendancy to use certain phrases when describing certain players based on skin colour. There is a set of language often used for black people a bit more than white people.

There are people on this forum who do a lot of campaigning against our players and it is noticeable that they are targeting mainly black or non-white players. This is a phenomenon which is happens often across football and in society in general. They might not even be aware they are doing it and threads like this might raise that awareness.

I am of the opinion that we should all be a bit more careful with the laguage we choose so we can make society a more equal place. I would like to think I don't make these mistakes but I am willing to take a look at myself and think a bot more carefully.

This doesn't mean that we can never call a black player lazy again but maybe we can ask ourselves if we would say the same thing to a white player in the same situation.

Great post, mate

 

[shmmeee]

That goal was well-taken, but one unchallenged header doesn’t make him good in the air. I don’t think I have seen him compete successfully for any aerial challenges all season, nor look interested in doing so. Whatever his strengths may or not be, there’s zero evidence that aerial ability/desire is one of them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He’s won about a third of his aerial challenges. Slightly more than Godden and slightly less than Simms.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

I find this discussion interesting to read. A lot of people seem to be unable to separate the general from the specific. The OG is making an interesting and valid ezpoint about laguage bias (unconscious or conscious) and has given some statistics and examples to back up the argument. It seems like a serious topic that we, as a progressive group, should be able to discuss.It's totally fine to excuse yourself from being one of these people but to say it's not worth discussing is actually wrong.

I think some people are proving the point by dismissing it whilst others seem focussed on the individual examples. It doesn't matter whether an individual black or white player is lazy or not, the point is that there is a tendancy to use certain phrases when describing certain players based on skin colour. There is a set of language often used for black people a bit more than white people.

There are people on this forum who do a lot of campaigning against our players and it is noticeable that they are targeting mainly black or non-white players. This is a phenomenon which is happens often across football and in society in general. They might not even be aware they are doing it and threads like this might raise that awareness.

I am of the opinion that we should all be a bit more careful with the laguage we choose so we can make society a more equal place. I would like to think I don't make these mistakes but I am willing to take a look at myself and think a bot more carefully.

This doesn't mean that we can never call a black player lazy again but maybe we can ask ourselves if we would say the same thing to a white player in the same situation

As far as I'm concerned if a player doesn't appear to be putting in a shift I'll call it out. I couldn't care less whether he's black or white. I'll use the same language irrespective of race etc. I'll treat them the same and so should everyone .

 

[hill83]

 

[robbiekeane]

I find this discussion interesting to read. A lot of people seem to be unable to separate the general from the specific. The OG is making an interesting and valid point about laguage bias (unconscious or conscious) and has given some statistics and examples to back up the argument. It seems like a serious topic that we, as a progressive group, should be able to discuss.It's totally fine to excuse yourself from being one of these people but to say it's not worth discussing is actually wrong.

I think some people are proving the point by dismissing it whilst others seem focussed on the individual examples. It doesn't matter whether an individual black or white player is lazy or not, the point is that there is a tendancy to use certain phrases when describing certain players based on skin colour. There is a set of language often used for black people a bit more than white people.

There are people on this forum who do a lot of campaigning against our players and it is noticeable that they are targeting mainly black or non-white players. This is a phenomenon which is happens often across football and in society in general. They might not even be aware they are doing it and threads like this might raise that awareness.

I am of the opinion that we should all be a bit more careful with the laguage we choose so we can make society a more equal place. I would like to think I don't make these mistakes but I am willing to take a look at myself and think a bot more carefully.

This doesn't mean that we can never call a black player lazy again but maybe we can ask ourselves if we would say the same thing to a white player in the same situation.

Spot on