USSR invades Ukraine. (60 Viewers)

PVA

Well-Known Member
He's probably fucked up both Russia and Ukraine with the war.

Nowhere have I said he's played a blinder with the war but his wider strategy of causing disruption and division in the west has been highly effective, unless you believe there has been zero interference from Russia that had an impact on events in 2016 and 2020?

Yes I agreed with your latter point that his disinformation and division campaigns in the west have been incredibly effective.

But you can't say he's played a blinder but with the caveat of ignoring the huge strategic disaster of this war.

That's like saying we've had a blinder of a season if you ignore the goals we've conceded!
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
It would be a de facto ceasefire as Putin clearly would want to go back in for more. Agree to a peace deal to recover the economy and military and invade again when ready.
That would have been a risk of any ceasefire ever signed. The West would insist on a variety of conditions that would make another invasion a no go.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Yes I agreed with your latter point that his disinformation and division campaigns in the west have been incredibly effective.

But you can't say he's played a blinder but with the caveat of ignoring the huge strategic disaster of this war.

That's like saying we've had a blinder of a season if you ignore the goals we've conceded!
I think he probably underestimated unity in the West and the amount of money put into it.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
@Brighton Sky Blue - you seem oblivious to the fact that fighting continued.
You seem oblivious to the fact that a full scale invasion, part of which entered through Crimea, happened 8 years after the territory was effectively ceded.

Putin wants Ukraine off the map-a temporary peace that gives him some land and relief from some sanctions would be ideal.
 
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PVA

Well-Known Member
To put it simply

If Russia stops fighting, there would be no war. If Ukraine stops fighting, there would be no Ukraine.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
As predicted, it'll end with negotiations and a settlement. The stuff about it going on as long as Ukraine wanted was never going to happen. I'd imagine behind closed doors in Europe there's also a lot of fatigue with it all and billions being spent on it.
You don’t see this as a sign of weakness from Putin by his own “tough” man standards? It’s certainly a changer in his position.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
No, not really.
Not sure how you see it that way. He’s clearly trying to appease a growing more daring vocal opposition in Russia. He can only put so many in prison for “extremism”. He’s losing his own support in Russia both on the street and from within his circle.
 

PVA

Well-Known Member
He went from taking the country in 15 days, to withdrawing from Kyiv, to retreating from half the land they'd taken in a total capitulation.

The majority of the Russian population will obviously buy whatever guff he comes up to justify it, but clearly anything other than complete annexation of Ukraine would be a massive climb down.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
He's probably fucked up both Russia and Ukraine with the war. The counteroffensive has ultimately failed and was likely met with a lot of disappointment from the West after how much it was hyped up and the money spent on it. At this point, I'm more inclined for the deaths of innocent men, women and children to end, rather than an ongoing war that will never progress past a stalemate.

Nowhere have I said he's played a blinder with the war but his wider strategy of causing disruption and division in the west has been highly effective, unless you believe there has been zero interference from Russia that had an impact on events in 2016 and 2020?

I think this is just buying his propoganda TBH. No evidence he had any appreciable impact.
 

Fysnkysc

Well-Known Member
F-16 officially confirmed as flying in Ukrainian skies.

Maybe the 5 planes Russia have lost in the last 3 days haven't been the patriot system after all ;).
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
The political left = LOL

'Why do we keep losing elections'.

I would say SBT needs to shut down the off topic chat, but it's actually a hilarious insight. Keep going lads.
 

PVA

Well-Known Member
The political left = LOL

'Why do we keep losing elections'.

I would say SBT needs to shut down the off topic chat, but it's actually a hilarious insight. Keep going lads.

What relevance does the 'political left' of SBT have to do with this war or why is it so funny?

And who has asked 'why do we keep losing elections?' in here?

Presumably you'd just had a few drinks yesterday, which is fair enough, otherwise that seems a bit of a strange post.
 

PVA

Well-Known Member
It sounds like the Russians have taken another key town.

Another? That takes the grand tally to... 3 towns taken in 2023.

After 22 months and 15k dead for this particular town, which is about the 400th largest in Ukraine.
 
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skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
It sounds like the Russians have taken another key town.
It sounds like Russia had to throw everything at it to achieve it though for a minimal gain. The town is a destroyed ghost town. The Russians were desperate to get it back because it has a key road for resupplying its front lines. Although in the last few weeks Ukraine seems to have gained control of the air in the last few weeks through its use of western hardware including surface to air missiles and aircraft, attacked a ship docked in Crimea last night unopposed. This road they were desperate to take control of could end up being shooting fish in a barrel for Ukraine and not the victory some think it is for Russian. Also Ukraine is still holding on to its bridgehead east of the Dnipro River, Russian sent its newly organised 104th air assault division there at the beginning of the month who were supposed to be an elite new force who were going to take the bridgehead back with ease, only to get wiped out. If you look more closely at the backdrop to Russias “victory” in Marinka it’s probably a hollow victory and even then unless they can make use of the road to any great degree taking a decollate ghost town is unlikely to be a victory at all. Time will tell.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Just like the counteroffensive then.
Not sure what point you’re trying to make there. Russia has been trying to take this town since 2014 for one road, they’ve taken it (allegedly, Ukraine now reporting it’s still fighting there) a mere 9 years later with great losses in terms of hardware and personnel while taking heavy losses elsewhere in an attempt to regain a bridgehead that Ukraine has taken east of the Dnipro. In the big scheme of things this is hardly a victory and still might not be if they can’t make use of the road due to Ukraines air power. I think you’ve put the bunting out a little early on this one. Let’s see what its ultimate strategic value is first.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
I see Russia is now fining and locking up celebrities for holding parties with the fines going directly to the “defend the fatherland” fund to supply the “special operation” in Ukraine. Maybe the reports of Russia running out of money are correct. I bet Putin and his cronies aren’t tapping into their own funds though.
 

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