Flying Fokker
Well-Known Member
So US/UK need to change something if they did not agree. There’s little point in withholding further military support if they want the war to continue.
USSR invades Ukraine. (73 Viewers)
- Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
- Start date
So US/UK need to change something if they did not agree. There’s little point in withholding further military support if they want the war to continue.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
This guys been spouting weird theories for years. I’d want a bit more than his word for it TBH.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The failed counteroffensive has happened since then and it’s pretty clear that there will be no Ukraine victory as things stand. Arguably this has now put Russia in a stronger position in terms of negotiations.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I thought they’d be taking back Crimea this month - I expect news soon
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I think if you’d watched the full unedited video before posting that you wouldn’t have posted that in the first place. That video has been heavily edited from two separate answers from two separate questions to make it look like Ambassador Chalyi said something he didn’t. For instance the first part of the edit immediately after its cut he goes on to talk about how the Ukrainian people overwhelmingly support membership of NATO, over 90% in any poll. You’re spreading Russian propaganda that’s been shared by a guy who openly blames the west for Putin invading Ukraine based on conspiracy theories.
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
From what I understand the counteroffensive regained 14 villages - is that correct?
The glee with which you two revel in at any sign of Ukrainian suffering or failure is frankly disgusting.
You in particular have been taken in by Russian propaganda. Quite sad to see actually.
Oh piss off. You've absolutely loved the fact the Ukrainian counter offensive was not a success.
As for propaganda, at the start of this war you were saying:
Putin is evil, a warlord
Ukraine can win this war
Russia is committing war crimes
Now you're saying:
Putin is a genius
Ukraine is committing war crimes
Zelensky is just using this to make money
Grendel was a c**t from the start. But you've been taken in hook line and sinker. And apparently you don't even realise, which is often the case.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Can you show me where I’ve said that about Zelensky?
I’ve said that I was against the use of cluster bombs while you relished them being used.
I also said that Putin’s wider foreign policy has been a success from his perspective, which has nothing to do with the war.
So you’re effectively just making stuff up now.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I think the high highlight of this whole saga was when you tried to defend Macron for the Zelensky lookalike hoodie - as he always wears one.
You’ve been drip fed Ukraine and US sponsored propaganda through the whole conflict and swallowed it hook line and sinker
No one in the Uk actually cares anymore. It’s a waste of our money, time and effort. Let Zelensky deal with it on his own.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
This is where the difference in opinion lies. You think Ukraine signing away more land will be enough to keep the peace long term, I don’t.
Maybe that was your Russian loving friend then. It's hard to tell the difference. If it wasn't you then I retract that, but the rest of it stands.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The only issue is if Russia pose a threat to NATO - I don’t think they do and frankly as I’ve said from the beginning this is nothing to do with us and if an occupied Ukraine was a fact and the effort then needed by Russia to police it - who cares. It’s not a great democratic country - it’s really not worth a shred of effort
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
It’s an awful lot of land on mainland Europe to be fine with letting Putin have it. You might not think that’s a problem, I do.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Unfortunately the Ukrainians alone aren’t going to drive Russia out, despite how much people wish that was the case. Even with billions in weapons and aid, it’s a stalemate. The alternative would be to effectively declare WW3.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Then what we are saying is to sacrifice Ukraine to appease Russia. Despite the predictable comments that this will elicit, there are parallels to what was asked of Czechoslovakia in the 30s.
Putin doesn’t recognise Ukraine’s right to exist, Hitler similarly thought Czechoslovakia was a made up state.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You’ve simultaneously made the best argument that anyone has made on here for Ukraine joining NATO while ignoring the fact that it’s been our legally binding international commitment since 1994 to support Ukraine in defence of itself so in actuality it has everything to do with us.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Ultimately it’s the reality of the situation- at the moment neither Ukraine or Russia is going to prosper but there isn’t going to be the appetite in the West to pump billions annually into an ongoing war.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Which is understandable, but there’s a price of a different kind to pay for allowing Russia to annexe that much territory. And commit God knows what against the population.
According to Grendel that is exactly the West's policy.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Would we get told off Tony if we didn’t?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The Biden Administration Is Quietly Shifting Its Strategy in Ukraine
For two years, Biden and Zelenskyy have been focused on driving Russia from Ukraine. Now Washington is discussing a move to a more defensive posture.
www.politico.com
It seems that those who rubbished the idea of a negotiated settlement being a possibility may have been wrong.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The Biden Administration Is Quietly Shifting Its Strategy in Ukraine
For two years, Biden and Zelenskyy have been focused on driving Russia from Ukraine. Now Washington is discussing a move to a more defensive posture.
It seems that those who rubbished the idea of a negotiated settlement being a possibility may have been wrong.
Armchair generals will be seething
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
To paraphrase Marge Simpson:The Biden Administration Is Quietly Shifting Its Strategy in Ukraine
For two years, Biden and Zelenskyy have been focused on driving Russia from Ukraine. Now Washington is discussing a move to a more defensive posture.
It seems that those who rubbished the idea of a negotiated settlement being a possibility may have been wrong.
I didn’t say they couldn’t, I said they shouldn’t.
Absolute state of you.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
It’s the resources there and moving Russias border closer and the effect it would have on the rules based order generally.
Extremely naive to think we’ve got no interests here. I suspect we’d hear the same of China invaded Taiwan, just primary school level of geopolitics.
There will be no peace, Ukraine don't need it, as for losing the counter offensive who cares they commited next to nothing for it, a few bradleys and a single challenger tank was lost.
Ukraines only mistake recently has not been digging down into defensive positions like Russia did on the south.
Ukraines only mistake recently has not been digging down into defensive positions like Russia did on the south.