Do you want to discuss boring politics? (106 Viewers)

[Grendel]

If I were in their shoes I’d smell blood and try to nab a few seats. Tories that unpopular they might manage it.

There is no chance in reality

There is I suppose they split the vote and the split the Conservative Party in half. I am surprised there have been no defections. Farage is sniffing around and fancies - potentially - to be leader

 

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

British gas profits 900%up from £72m to £751m, absolutely no need get the wealth tax out or get it back in state control.

It's what really pisses me off about the energy price cap. They keep on claiming they need to put it up because their unit costs are going up, then they make huge profits like this. If your unit price was going up then your profitability would be roughly stable.

As for the bullshit about every type of energy being linked into the price of one, fuck knows who thought that was a bright idea.

And imagine what we could do with those profits if the thing hadn't been privatised?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It's what really pisses me off about the energy price cap. They keep on claiming they need to put it up because their unit costs are going up, then they make huge profits like this. If your unit price was going up then your profitability would be roughly stable.

As for the bullshit about every type of energy being linked into the price of one, fuck knows who thought that was a bright idea.

And imagine what we could do with those profits if the thing hadn't been privatised?

They just use a random number generator and go ‘guess that’s what you owe us and we’ll send thugs round your house if you can’t afford it’. Not much better than thieves

 

[skybluetony176]

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

They just use a random number generator and go ‘guess that’s what you owe us and we’ll send thugs round your house if you can’t afford it’. Not much better than thieves

Yep. Ludicrous.

This was a number of years ago, but they did it with my nan. Starting wanting monthly DD's that were almost equivalent to six months actual usage. Ended up hundreds of pounds in credit.

We tried to get them to change it and in the end my mum, who worked in a bank, just went and changed the amount she was paying them to a SO. Two months later, big red letter bill saying she owed them a few hundred pounds and would cut her off if it wasn't paid in 7 days. She had hundreds of pounds in credit on her account! As you can imagine she got quite anxious and upset about this and she had heart problems as it was. We were not happy and I eventually ended up feeling sorry for the person on the phone because they got a right earful, when it wasn't really their fault.

 

[wingy]

It's not really a recession according to the pundits, support.
GDP per capita is down consecutively for seven quarters,he'll let's keep going with interest hikes while we give away tax monies, especially to business circles.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The recession is planned, the interest rate rises are having the desired effect. I'm not that sure why the independent BOE is / was much lauded. Livelihoods put in the hands of an unelected panel of technocrats.

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[wingy]

The recession is planned, the interest rate rises are having the desired effect. I'm not that sure why the independent BOE is / was much lauded. Livelihoods put in the hands of an unelected panel of technocrats.

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Transferring tax take to private entity?

 

[CCFCSteve]

It's what really pisses me off about the energy price cap. They keep on claiming they need to put it up because their unit costs are going up, then they make huge profits like this. If your unit price was going up then your profitability would be roughly stable.

As for the bullshit about every type of energy being linked into the price of one, fuck knows who thought that was a bright idea.

And imagine what we could do with those profits if the thing hadn't been privatised?

Ofgen have been fuckin useless. I might be wrong but I think the argument of late was that the cap was left higher to recompense the poor energy companies for making less during the peak unit cost period ie sharing the pain. As I mentioned at the start of the energy crisis though there is a difference between energy producers and energy retailers though. Whats been scandalous is that the standing charges have been left ridiculously high to cover cost of busy energy providers(retailers)…how’s that incentivising lower usage ?!

Whole things a joke but one bit of good news is the April cap should drop around 15% I think

ps we’re all paying extra green taxes on energy yet where’s the benefit to us all when as a country we’re generating so much power from renewables…can someone explain this to me ?!

 

[shmmeee]

Ofgen have been fuckin useless. I might be wrong but I think the argument of late was that the cap was left higher to recompense the poor energy companies for making less during the peak unit cost period ie sharing the pain. As I mentioned at the start of the energy crisis though there is a difference between energy producers and energy retailers though. Whats been scandalous is that the standing charges have been left ridiculously high to cover cost of busy energy providers(retailers)…how’s that incentivising lower usage ?!

Whole things a joke but one bit of good news is the April cap should drop around 15% I think

ps we’re all paying extra green taxes on energy yet where’s the benefit to us all when as a country we’re generating so much power from renewables…can someone explain this to me ?!

We need to decouple energy pricing from the most expensive form. Let gas die from competition from cheaper energy sources.

 

[CCFCSteve]

We need to decouple energy pricing from the most expensive form. Let gas die from competition from cheaper energy sources.

Agree. Its ridiculous how the electricity price is calculated. So we pay green energy tax to subsidise green energy investment (which im
100% behind in theory) but then still get charged cost of producing on ‘gas basis’ which is the most expensive and only generates about a third of our electricity

I mean WTAF !

I’m sure there was talk of changing methodology but all gone quiet since. Surely an easy win for Labour to suggest they’ll introduce this change if/when elected

 

[SBT]

The recession is planned, the interest rate rises are having the desired effect. I'm not that sure why the independent BOE is / was much lauded. Livelihoods put in the hands of an unelected panel of technocrats.

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You’d prefer a government-controlled central bank?

 

[fernandopartridge]

You’d prefer a government-controlled central bank?

It's only been independent since 1997 and since then we've had a credit boom and crash and the longest continuous fall in living standards. What's the benefit of its independence?

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[Grendel]

You’d prefer a government-controlled central bank?

Strangely given my political leanings I personally would

 

[SBT]

It's only been independent since 1997 and since then we've had a credit boom and crash and the longest continuous fall in living standards. What's the benefit of its independence?

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It acts as a brake to counteract rash and/or irresponsible government actions - what does a Truss-appointed BoE Governor do when the pension funds sector is about to keel over as a result of Truss' own budget? Does the UK economy manage the post-2016 referendum turbulence as well if Carney has to also be replaced by a Brexiteer as soon as Cameron quits?

It's in step with the world's other major central banks, which are all also indepedent, and has made co-operation between those central banks easy during the gigantic crises we've seen since 1997 (GFC, Covid)

It has credibility in the eyes of international investors, at a time when the credibility of our politicians seems to be in decline

It means monetary policy is decided with more than just the next election cycle in mind, and allows unpopular but necessary decisions to be taken with less political pressure

 

[fernandopartridge]

It acts as a brake to counteract rash and/or irresponsible government actions - what does a Truss-appointed BoE Governor do when the pension funds sector is about to keel over as a result of Truss' own budget? Does the UK economy manage the post-2016 referendum turbulence as well if Carney has to also be replaced by a Brexiteer as soon as Cameron quits?

It's in step with the world's other major central banks, which are all also indepedent, and has made co-operation between those central banks easy during the gigantic crises we've seen since 1997 (GFC, Covid)

It has credibility in the eyes of international investors, at a time when the credibility of our politicians seems to be in decline

It means monetary policy is decided with more than just the next election cycle in mind, and allows unpopular but necessary decisions to be taken with less political pressure

The decisions it makes have obvious societal impact which to me means that it's something that should have some form of accountability in my opinion.

The necessary decision to create a recession to counteract inflation caused by non monetary policy reasons.



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[SBT]

The decisions it makes have obvious societal impact which to me means that it's something that should have some form of accountability in my opinion.

The necessary decision to create a recession to counteract inflation caused by non monetary policy reasons.



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Well it’s not like they’re totally unaccountable - the government could decide tomorrow to replace the Governor if it wanted to. And there are other ways to keep public officials accountable beyond having the public vote them in, or making them all government wards.

In the case of the BoE, removing their independence will just make for less predictable, more populist monetary policy. That is rarely a formula for greater financial stability.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Well it’s not like they’re totally unaccountable - the government could decide tomorrow to replace the Governor if it wanted to. And there are other ways to keep public officials accountable beyond having the public vote them in, or making them all government wards.

In the case of the BoE, removing their independence will just make for less predictable, more populist monetary policy. That is rarely a formula for greater financial stability.

They've not met their inflation target for over 2 years mate - what's happened?

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[CCFCSteve]

They've not met their inflation target for over 2 years mate - what's happened?

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QE, Ukrainian war and post pandemic squeeze.

I agree though that they haven’t been very good and basically were asleep at the wheel prior to/at the early stages of inflation increasing which exacerbated the problem. They should’ve stopped QE and increased interest rates earlier, however, do I think a government controlled BoE/rate setter would’ve done better…looking at recent form, doubt it.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'd be all for BoE controlled by government until I think of Truss and Kwarteng wielding that power.

 

[SBT]

They've not met their inflation target for over 2 years mate - what's happened?

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A series of very big and largely unprecedented economic shocks?

I’m not saying that central bank independence guarantees good performance but it’s an important principle of monetary policy nevertheless.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I'd be all for BoE controlled by government until I think of Truss and Kwarteng wielding that power.

The second part is a separate issue though, isn't it? Also, the pair of them were out of their positions within weeks.

 

[skybluetony176]

QE, Ukrainian war and post pandemic squeeze.

I agree though that they haven’t been very good and basically were asleep at the wheel prior to/at the early stages of inflation increasing which exacerbated the problem. They should’ve stopped QE and increased interest rates earlier, however, do I think a government controlled BoE/rate setter would’ve done better…looking at recent form, doubt it.

You forgot Brexit

5% of our GDP year in year out apparently.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The second part is a separate issue though, isn't it? Also, the pair of them were out of their positions within weeks.

Not really, as that's the consequence. And they were out within weeks, but the damage they caused was moderated by an independent bank, as opposed to them completely crashing us to utter doom.

 

[Grendel]

Not really, as that's the consequence. And they were out within weeks, but the damage they caused was moderated by an independent bank, as opposed to them completely crashing us to utter doom.

I assume we had direct control until 1997?

 

[wingy]

Just a vehicle to get back the loss of wealth to mega rich!

 

[CCFCSteve]

You forgot Brexit

5% of our GDP year in year out apparently.

Oh yeah, silly me

There’s no doubt that it would’ve had a negative impact on inflation but compared to the other examples relatively minor

ps the 5% was an estimate in total since brexit not year in year out. Still significant but difficult to be accurate when we’ve had the pandemic and Ukraine war since which has impacted different countries, at different times in different ways.

 

[skybluetony176]

Oh yeah, silly me

There’s no doubt that it would’ve had a negative impact on inflation but compared to the other examples relatively minor

5% year on year off growth is hardly minor. Especially when it comes to servicing debt and therefore investment in infrastructure and services. Under the current fiscal rules that is. We failed to grow the economy due to austerity and now we’ve taken another political decision to not just cut growth but actively shrink it.

 

[CCFCSteve]

5% year on year off growth is hardly minor. Especially when it comes to servicing debt and therefore investment in infrastructure and services. Under the current fiscal rules that is. We failed to grow the economy due to austerity and now we’ve taken another political decision to not just cut growth but actively shrink it.

Not sure if we’re talking crossed purposes but if you’re talking about Goldman sachs report that’s not 5% year on year (it’s in total) and I was talking about brexits impact on inflation being minor compared to other examples - we’re talking about inflation and interest rates not Brexit

 

[SBT]

I'd be all for BoE controlled by government until I think of Truss and Kwarteng wielding that power.

It’s only by historical accident that Truss and Kwarteng didn’t get to hand-pick the BoE governor, and they had the power to remove him while they were in office anyway. The Bank’s leadership is appointed by the government and its mandate decided by the government - there’s only so much less independent you can make it!

 

[shmmeee]

Agree. Its ridiculous how the electricity price is calculated. So we pay green energy tax to subsidise green energy investment (which im
100% behind in theory) but then still get charged cost of producing on ‘gas basis’ which is the most expensive and only generates about a third of our electricity

I mean WTAF !

I’m sure there was talk of changing methodology but all gone quiet since. Surely an easy win for Labour to suggest they’ll introduce this change if/when elected

We shouldn’t need green levies. If I were a cynic I’d say they’re introduced to give ammo to the right. Insulation and renewables are economically viable in their own right. If you want to fund green infrastructure and don’t want to borrow for some mental reason, just bring a carbon tax in and price the stuff we actually want to stop.

 

[shmmeee]

Doesn’t matter what we do for growth at this point. We just desperately need it. Personally I’d do green infra, EU ties, house building, planning reform and work to improve the VC landscape in the UK to help startups as well as legalising weed. But literally anything would do as long as it’s not another decade of bickering.

 

[shmmeee]

We've discussed this before. Growth is, by its very nature, unsustainable and a fools errand.. All the time needing ever higher populations, land and resources that are finite being used faster and faster. Just a recipe for war over territory and resources until it implodes spectacularly.

It's not that there isn't enough money, it's that those with it all refuse to let anyone else have any. If we have growth it still all just goes to those that have loads and the poor are still in need. Look at big cities that have massive growth in populations and economy. A handful live in fabulous luxury due to it but far more suffer abject poverty and social problems. So what's the suggestion - more growth - which just entrenches the problems! What's that adage about doing the same thing and expecting different results?

Where economic policy needs to focus is distribution, not growth. I'm not naive enough to think that it'd appeal to voters - I know it wouldn't - but is more likely to get results.

Good luck telling people their living standards are going to fall. Growth is not at all unsustainable by its nature. That’s a completely ahistorical take. You also don’t need more people for growth, because it’s per capita that matters.

Overall though, I don’t really want to live in a country preserved in aspic for older generations because we refuse to build anything. I like innovation. I like new stuff. It leads to better lives than the old stuff.

 

[SBT]

Doesn’t matter what we do for growth at this point. We just desperately need it.

Alright, Kwasi.

 

[shmmeee]

Alright, Kwasi.

Point is the problem with the country is constant talking shops and fuck all ever happening. Like house building. Like infrastructure. Like climate change. I’m done listening to constant hypotheticals about how we shouldn’t do anything. Move fast and break things.

Kwarteng confused growth with giving his mates a tax break of course.