Do you want to discuss boring politics? (146 Viewers)

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Because prisons aren't shown to be much of a deterrent and leads to a high percentage of reoffending. In some cases prisons are basically seen as criminal gang recruitment centres.

People who get drawn further and further into that world for what started out as minor offences. Things like drugs, swift changes in circumstances (especially economic like job loss), family/socio-economic problems. People that can be helped but end up in a much worse position because they've been sent to prison.

Meanwhile other countries in Scandinavia concentrate almost wholly on rehabilitation with a tiny prison population and all the indicators are that it's far more successful. In fact they say the biggest problem is people like you moaning why criminals aren't being punished.

For me prison should be there purely for those who pose a physical threat to people, and would happily say for some of them to even be considered for release after extensive rehabilitation they have to wear a tag for the rest of their lives.

So ask yourself are you interesting in solving the amount of crime and the reasons for it, or just punishment?
That’s what me Timpson is saying
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Well, exit polls suggesting the National Rally in France now languishing in 3rd place after the 2nd round of voting.
not really been following this past the headlines as there was so much going on here. is this a case where the far right voters vote far right but as you move through the process nobody else has them as their second ballot?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Most of us think they're a bunch of cunts. Still, doesn't answer my question. If they aren't centre right, what are they?
You see this is what they do. They shift the line so that can claim to not be far right implicating that they must be centre right while claiming moronic things like the current Labour Party is the furthest left Labour Party in modern history when it’s centre left at best and not even the furthest left Labour Party of the last 5 years.


We’re back to the territory of just because they (the Tories) think you’re stupid doesn’t mean you have to indulge them.
 

PVA

Well-Known Member
That can't be right, I thought the right were now the most popular party and Le Pen was going to be president

It's almost as though this has happened before.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
That can't be right, I thought the right were now the most popular party and Le Pen was going to be president

It's almost as though this has happened before.
Almost like most French people aren't actually Le Pen supporters and will vote to keep her and her party out.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
I’d presume people holding their noses to keep them out.
Exactly this. A load of candidates withdrew so as not to dilute the vote. A lot of people also voted for Macron just to keep Le Pen out. Thank goodness.
 

fatso

Well-Known Member
Because prisons aren't shown to be much of a deterrent and leads to a high percentage of reoffending. In some cases prisons are basically seen as criminal gang recruitment centres.

People who get drawn further and further into that world for what started out as minor offences. Things like drugs, swift changes in circumstances (especially economic like job loss), family/socio-economic problems. People that can be helped but end up in a much worse position because they've been sent to prison.

Meanwhile other countries in Scandinavia concentrate almost wholly on rehabilitation with a tiny prison population and all the indicators are that it's far more successful. In fact they say the biggest problem is people like you moaning why criminals aren't being punished.

For me prison should be there purely for those who pose a physical threat to people, and would happily say for some of them to even be considered for release after extensive rehabilitation they have to wear a tag for the rest of their lives.

So ask yourself are you interesting in solving the amount of crime and the reasons for it, or just punishment?
The problem is without any deterant there's no reason not to commit crime.
Rehab although a crucial part in preventing re offending isn't the only solution.
We've had rehab for donkeys years without stopping reoffending. Go and ask any shop owners if shoplifting has increased or decreased since police stopped bothering with it.
Weak ass woolly do gooders like you would see a massive rise in crime once the punishment was reduced.
So in short punishment AND rehab is the way to go imo.
 

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
You see this is what they do. They shift the line so that can claim to not be far right implicating that they must be centre right while claiming moronic things like the current Labour Party is the furthest left Labour Party in modern history when it’s centre left at best and not even the furthest left Labour Party of the last 5 years.


We’re back to the territory of just because they (the Tories) think you’re stupid doesn’t mean you have to indulge them.
What are you on about? The political spectrum is exactly that - a theoretical relative spectrum so obviously shifts.

Most would probably agree though that the Conservative Party that just got booted out was centre right - what do you disagree with about that?

The relativity is important thought, for example they are definitely still left of the US Democratic Party
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
The worrying thing for France is that around 30% plus of the electorate are voting far right parties and if I was a betting man , I reckon that figure could rise further over the next 4 years .

200 MPs had to step down in certain areas to ensure that this happened through tactical voting.. that's a worry
 

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
The worrying thing for France is that around 30% plus of the electorate are voting far right parties and if I was a betting man , I reckon that figure could rise further over the next 4 years .

200 MPs had to step down in certain areas to ensure that this happened through tactical voting.. that's a worry

Although the increased turnout in the 2nd round suggests to me there’s a general apathy but a more fervent rejection of far right politics. Basically more have been energised after the result of the first round of voting.
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
Although the increased turnout in the 2nd round suggests to me there’s a general apathy but a more fervent rejection of far right politics. Basically more have been energised after the result of the first round of voting.

France I reckon has a much bigger far right issue than the UK .. can't see it getting better either
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
Le pen results

2017

2nd round

8%

2022

17 %

2024

29/30 %


Projected to gain 44 seats in the French parliament
 

stay_up_skyblues

Well-Known Member
My 14 year old goes on a school trip to Paris Tuesday. Hopefully it’s all calmed down a bit by the time she gets there. All seems fairly celebratory on the news at the moment.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
You see this is what they do. They shift the line so that can claim to not be far right implicating that they must be centre right while claiming moronic things like the current Labour Party is the furthest left Labour Party in modern history when it’s centre left at best and not even the furthest left Labour Party of the last 5 years.


We’re back to the territory of just because they (the Tories) think you’re stupid doesn’t mean you have to indulge them.

So you think the Conservatives were far right?

Fucking hell.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
So you think the Conservatives were far right?

Fucking hell.
They’re a damn site nearer to the far right than they are the centre that’s for sure. They’ve spent the last 12 months especially trying to make immigration the biggest issue. Text book far right. But the truth is they’ve been flirting with it since May was Home Secretary.
 

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
They’re a damn site nearer to the far right than they are the centre that’s for sure. They’ve spent the last 12 months especially trying to make immigration the biggest issue. Text book far right. But the truth is they’ve been flirting with it since May was Home Secretary.
Jesus Christ, if you think they are far right I think you need to open a history book, or look at US politics
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
That can't be right, I thought the right were now the most popular party and Le Pen was going to be president

It's almost as though this has happened before.

There was zero chance of them being the most popular party
 

nunchuckas

Well-Known Member
So you think the Conservatives were far right?

Fucking hell.
It all comes down to the Overton window and it varies by country and perpetually shifts over time.

In the UK, the window has been tracking further right over recent years, and is considerably further right than most of Europe. Even though in Europe the window is also shifting right.

For example, Corbyn's policies under the UK Overton window were considered far left and deemed loony and communist. Whereas in Europe, every single policy except one was already in place in at least one country, and his manifesto would have been considered fairly central, and even right leaning in Scandinavia. And these are all capitalist countries.

There was an academic study recently that showed at one point under the outgoing Tory government we had overtaken the US as the most right wing country in the world, in terms of economic and fiscal policy, this was based on the policies that were in place at that time.
 

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