Nah!🫣
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (43 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
- Start date
Nobody who is destitute will suffer from this!
I should know! And I still buy a season ticket!
He followed the party line to be fair. I was just saying to a mate I still think they’ve dropped a bollock. I personally would’ve gone down the route of riding the new government positivity wave, say we’ve finally got government stability, inflation heading back to normal and some growth after 14 years of flatlining, we’re going to build on this in a fair way to clean up the public services mess the Tories have left.
Far better line of attack and message, also more likely to encourage more investment, help growth etc. They’ve ended up sucking the post election bounce/positivity out of the country….bit of a boob
Agreed. BSBs also correct though. Ruling out the increases to the major tax revenue generators was unnecessary. For starters they should’ve just said Tories NI cut was totally unfunded so would have at least be looked at post election.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
None of which ever seems to be VAT
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
You want to pay even more VAT?
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
They couldn’t possibly have done that. If they said everything was rosy as an inheritance from the Tories, Labour would have had to take the blame when it all goes tits up. Which it will.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Good grief, obviously less.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
From a logical point of view it makes more sense. You only pay the tax when you spend the money. You can only spend the money if you've got it. Therefore the more money you have the more tax you pay.
Often wondered if they might consider bringing in bands for VAT, so the higher the value of the purchase the higher tax %.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
No. I want it cutting to at least the 17.5% it was for many years. Think of how many everyday things and services you pay it on and the difference it would make to individuals and businesses alike to have a reduction.
No you're hoping here!
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
But then you're edging into "why pay any tax at all and just let people spend what they want and let the private sector grow from the extra expenditure". It's been shown time and time again that doesn't work. I'm all for zero or reduced percentage on items that are necessities but anything else is fair game IMO.
We've got a huge hole in the country's finances and you're saying 'tax cuts because it will lead to growth'. Which is standard Tory policy and was Truss' entire argument. What it inevitably leads to is cuts.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So let’s increase VAT and wreck even more small businesses. Great plan that
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I was talking about the logic behind it rather than if I'd do it.
Like I said certain items I think should be lower tax or tax free. More expensive luxury items yes I'd consider a rate increase.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
You clearly don’t know me very well if you think I’m angling for a low/zero tax approach. For many years VAT was held at 17.5%, then very briefly dropped to 15% by Gordon Brown before jumping to 20 under Cameron.
A 2.5 point drop to the previous rate would make a noticeable cost of living difference to individuals and ease some pressure on businesses also.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Increasing VAT let’s say on food items and beverages would potentially wreck independent coffee chains as one example.
Madness
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I know he's towing the party line but it's hardly a defence, the line is something him and his fellow cabinet members have created despite the wishes of the members.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
We haven't got a huge hole in the public finances, fucking hell.
But not enough to improve infrastructure!
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
VAT should be dropped back to 15% similar to what happened at the end of the last Labour government, there is a desperate need for stimulus.
There have been more company insolvencies in recent years than there was immediately following the GFC.
There have been more company insolvencies in recent years than there was immediately following the GFC.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Instead of that we’re going to see MPs having the whip taken for daring to defend pensioners. And for what? Less than 0.1% of total government spending?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Not watched but has anyone asked back why we don’t undo the NI cut or raise taxes on the rich?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
VAT is a hugely regressive tax as it is.
Never got sales tax TBH. Why would you want fewer sales?
A ten percent rise on fuel brings mine up to £60 a month hardly breaks the bank, usage, I'll Go resist the new meterage as long as I can ! Just over £2 per day for both fuel's around 3yrs ago that would have sounded obscene to me but not now, quite reasonable!
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Beats a 25% rise in mortgage payments at least!
Tell the BOE there behind the curve here,get the rates cut they're stretching it out too far!!
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
The argument of “the Conservatives were playing fast and loose with the country’s finances” is only half the story. The ‘spend’ was on nothing of value. If, for example, there was a plethora of infrastructure projects underway then the deficit doesn’t really matter (at less than 2% of total government spending; I’m not advocating for endless expenditure before anyone tries that). Fact is, the tax cuts given haven’t boosted economic performance so they were dead duck policies.
As Steve said earlier in the thread, there was a massive opportunity to use their short-term to make meaningful and positive change. They’ve blown their goodwill already which is staggeringly incompetent.
Edit: I’ll also add, you’ve just won a 5 year term. This bit is meant to be about you, not what the opposition did. No one cares this far out.
As Steve said earlier in the thread, there was a massive opportunity to use their short-term to make meaningful and positive change. They’ve blown their goodwill already which is staggeringly incompetent.
Edit: I’ll also add, you’ve just won a 5 year term. This bit is meant to be about you, not what the opposition did. No one cares this far out.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Of course I know you're not a low/zero tax approach person. That's why I mentioned that the logical conclusion of your argument is exactly that, and I know you think that's a ridiculous proposition.
I do get the argument for it, but I think there are better ways to go about it. Having people earn a minimum wage they can actually live off for a start and then probably putting the tax free income at the value of rent, food + energy.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Well that depends on if you consider them expensive, luxury items. I don't, so I wouldn't raise VAT on them.
Argument for alcoholic beverages can be made I think.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
That sounds like a slippery slope fallacy to me.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I don't get having high levels of income tax allied to high levels of sales tax as that's just double taxation. One or the other can be fine.
Probably arguing for the sake of it here but one reason is people have a tendency to buy shit they don't need. We're also using up raw materials and energy at an ever increasing rate to produce a lot of shit. We moan about the levels of pollution and gases China makes. The reason it does that is because it's producing the shit we buy. So maybe we could do with having people being a bit more discerning about what they buy.
And as I said I'd consider adding bands in so high cost items incur a higher tax level than lower ones. That would make it a bit more progressive.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Maybe, but that's where the argument always ends up. You cut taxes and sales/growth goes up and the economic right say "well we should cut taxes even more".
Same with deregulation. You take away the regulation, the banks/industry makes more profits and it's "see, we told you you should cut the regulation and red tape" Only for the entire thing to go to shit a few years down the line because people have been doing shit that was always going to go wrong in the end.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
You have jumped to this conclusion from me saying that VAT at 20% is too high.