Do you want to discuss boring politics? (80 Viewers)

[fernandopartridge]

Not saying we should follow. Just it’s easy to become uncompetitive

It's about the same level as 'peer' nations if that really means anything. Oddly, despite the very low rates in some of the former eastern bloc countries, there is no clamour for major companies to HQ there. It's probably over stated in terms of a country's competitiveness. More important are a stable political system and a well educated workforce, and English speaking helps too.

 

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[MalcSB]

I’ve explicitly said it’s not a hill I’m dying on, I’m just trying to provide some balance to the “all grannies are going to die” hysteria. I think it’s bad politics badly executed and the threshold shouldn’t be pension credit. But if we are cutting the principle of taking from the richest makes sense.

It was in the 2017 Tory manifesto when they weren’t clinging to pensioners votes for their lives so much. It’s an issue that’s recognised cross bench as needing reform but the pensioner vote is such that both parties will only attempt it when they think they have bulletproof political capital.

Which Labour opposed saying it would lead to 4,000 deaths - not all grannies. That obviously didn't predict the phenomenal increase in fuel costs which will only make matters worse. God knows what the impact will be if single person Council Tax discount is stopped - I have "walked you through"where more than the pension increase has already gone. You havent challenged the calculations so I assume you accept them.

Still, saving £350,000 per pensioner death seems entirely reasonable, at least to the twats in government.

 

[shmmeee]

Which Labour opposed saying it would lead to 4,000 deaths - not all grannies. That obviously didn't predict the phenomenal increase in fuel costs which will only make matters worse. God knows what the impact will be if single person Council Tax discount is stopped - I have "walked you through"where more than the pension increase has already gone. You havent challenged the calculations so I assume you accept them.

Still, saving £350,000 per pensioner death seems entirely reasonable, at least to the twats in government.

PS What was the problem with poll tax?

The numbers in fuel poverty decreased last year because of insulation efforts and increased income outweighing energy cost increases.

There are genuine issues with a small number just above the threshold clearly. That doesn’t change the fact that giving Elton John £300 a year isn’t a wise use of public funds.

Pensioners are doing well. Far far better than when the WFP was introduced. They are insulated from housing costs and have income guaranteed to rise above everyone else’s in perpetuity. Reducing their benefits isn’t akin to murdering them and I’d take you a lot more seriously if you felt that way about working age benefits too, who have none of those advantages.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yeah the wage squeeze has meant fairly average salaries are classed in the top 10. There’s a lot of people paid fuck all, a few people paid what thirty years ago would, accounting for inflation, be a normal middle class or skilled worker salary are now seen as some kings ransom.

Especially when a lot of these jobs exist in London. I’d like to see the income deciles with the South East excluded.

I joined the company I'm in back in 2015 on x salary for the role I did then. We are currently recruiting people for the same role 9 years later with a salary that is £7k less than it should be accounting for inflation. This sort of thing will be replicated everywhere.

BTW, no problem with the company's financial performance either, so wages are not being held to maintain a margin. Profit up 50% y-o-y.

 

[chiefdave]

I joined the company I'm in back in 2015 on x salary for the role I did then. We are currently recruiting people for the same role 9 years later with a salary that is £7k less than it should be accounting for inflation. This sort of thing will be replicated everywhere.

Exactly the same in my sector. apparently the basic rule of supply and demand doesn't apply to salaries.

All I've heard for years is how there's a shortage of workers, along with my boss at whichever company I've been working for complaining how its near impossible to recruit anyone, yet wages have stagnated. So in real terms I'm on less now than 15 years ago.

At the same time companies are employing less and less people to cover the same workload which obviously leads to longer hours and more stress. The result of that is more and more people leaving the sector and more people on long term sick with stress related illnesses.

 

[MalcSB]

The numbers in fuel poverty decreased last year because of insulation efforts and increased income outweighing energy cost increases.

There are genuine issues with a small number just above the threshold clearly. That doesn’t change the fact that giving Elton John £300 a year isn’t a wise use of public funds.

Pensioners are doing well. Far far better than when the WFP was introduced. They are insulated from housing costs and have income guaranteed to rise above everyone else’s in perpetuity. Reducing their benefits isn’t akin to murdering them and I’d take you a lot more seriously if you felt that way about working age benefits too, who have none of those advantages.

So the state pension will rise more than junior doctors pay or train drivers?

I have shown where next years increase has gone, leaving pensioners worse off.

 

[shmmeee]

So the state pension will rise more than junior doctors pay or train drivers?

I have shown where next years increase has gone, leaving pensioners worse off.

Since the triple lock was introduced yes.

Train driver salary 2012-2023: £44,985 > £60,055 (33% increase)

Source: Striking train drivers' pay has risen by up to 62% in recent years


State pension for single person 2012-2023: £5,587 > £8,122 (45% increase)

Source: https://adviser.royallondon.com/tec...tors/state-pension/basic-state-pension-rates/

 

[chiefdave]

Since the triple lock was introduced yes.

Train driver salary 2012-2023: £44,985 > £60,055 (33% increase)

Source: Striking train drivers' pay has risen by up to 62% in recent years


State pension for single person 2012-2023: £5,587 > £8,122 (45% increase)

Source: Basic State Pension (Rate) - Royal London for advisers

Don't go bringing facts into this!

 

[MalcSB]

Since the triple lock was introduced yes.

Train driver salary 2012-2023: £44,985 > £60,055 (33% increase)

Source: Striking train drivers' pay has risen by up to 62% in recent years


State pension for single person 2012-2023: £5,587 > £8,122 (45% increase)

Source: Basic State Pension (Rate) - Royal London for advisers

Why not include 2024. BSP up to £8,814 since triple lock, 57.8%
Train drivers up to £69,000, 53.4 %.
Value of the percentage difference to pensioners £387. Which the majority have just lost most of.

I don’t suppose train drivers calorie requirements are all that high either.

 

[Grendel]

Don't go bringing facts into this!

They are as ever selected facts. He clearly has some issues with old people. His comments are pretty outrageous in truth.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They are as ever selected facts. He clearly has some issues with old people. His comments are pretty outrageous in truth.

Some people also have a real axe to grind with train drivers instead of governments of a certain party neglecting the country for 14 years.

 

[Grendel]

Some people also have a real axe to grind with train drivers instead of governments of a certain party neglecting the country for 14 years.

To suggest old people can eat less than other people is straight from a Victorian playbook. Train drivers are not going hungry or cold. Many earn more than Pilots in the private sector. I know where my sympathy lies.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

It was more the reason the government finances are shit is is because private wealth is being horded

What's wrong with private wealth being hoarded?

 

[Mcbean]

i sort of object to be being taxed on money that already been taxed ! Rachel Reeves is on a horse with a mask

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What's wrong with private wealth being hoarded?

What’s the point of it

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

To suggest old people can eat less than other people is straight from a Victorian playbook. Train drivers are not going hungry or cold. Many earn more than Pilots in the private sector. I know where my sympathy lies.

Are pilots unionised in the private sector?

 

[MalcSB]

Some people also have a real axe to grind with train drivers instead of governments of a certain party neglecting the country for 14 years.

It’s just not a good look though, is it? Let’s give train drivers £9,000 and take £300 off pensioners.

I would imagine it could get quite interesting on here after the budget if some of the stuff that’s not being denied happens. How could they justify stopping the single persons council tax discount for example?

 

[wingy]

It started with yuppies I'm telling ya!!

 

[fernandopartridge]

It’s just not a good look though, is it? Let’s give train drivers £9,000 and take £300 off pensioners.

I would imagine it could get quite interesting on here after the budget if some of the stuff that’s not being denied happens. How could they justify stopping the single persons council tax discount for example?

They are not paying the train drivers, they don't employ them. I suspect that the franchise agreements require that the DfT has to approve the award but not pay it.

In any event, it isn't train drivers vs other workers or pensioners. The standalone point is strong enough, the government has decided to cut benefits for elderly people on the eve of winter and ahead of a forthcoming rise in the price of energy.

 

[wingy]

What I mean is that one sector of society has an advantage over the others ,as evidence my career saw pretty much wage stagnation across least 20 25 year's,the old this time next year we'll all be millionaires was heard commonly on the exhibition floors across England!

 

[fernandopartridge]

Groundbreaking stuff:

The stuff on prevention has nothing about any of the people that really cost the NHS, the elderly or dealing with any of the social determinants of health.

How Starmer explained three principles behind Labour's approach to NHS reform​

In his speech Keir Starmer talked in some detail about the the government’s three priorities for reform – more focus on digital and technology, more focus on primary care, and more focus on prevention. Here are the key extracts.

On the need for more digitalisation, and better use of technology

First moving from an analogue to a digital NHS.
We can already see glimpses of the extraordinary potential of technology, like the world’s first ever non-invasive, knifeless surgery for kidney cancer – just imagine that, pioneered by Leeds teaching hospitals. Or the precision cancer scanners – I saw some of them yesterday …
Take an innovation like the NHS app. This could be a whole digital front door to the NHS – appointments, self referral reminders for check-ups and screenings, patients in control of their own data. healthcare so much more transparent …
We’ve got to have fully digital patient record, so that crucial information is there for you whenever you go to the NHS.

(When Starmer is asked about his record as director of public prosecutions, one of the things he talks about with most pride is digitalising CPS records, which he says made a big difference in terms of court efficiency.)

On the need to focus more on primary care

Second, we’ve got to shift more care from hospitals to communities. Now, the King’s Fund has long called for this. Successive governments have repeatedly promised it.
But what’s happened? The opposite. The share of the NHS budget spent on hospitals has actually increased.
This 10-year plan has to be the moment that we change that, the moment we begin to turn our national health service into a neighborhood health service.
That means more tests, scans, healthcare offered on high streets and town centers, improved GP access, bringing back the family doctor, offering digital consultations for those that want them, virtual wards and more patients safely looked after in their own homes, where we can deal with problems early, before people are off work sick, and before they need to go to hospital.

On the need to focus more on prevention

And, third, we have got to be much bolder in moving from sickness to prevention.
We’ve already announced NHS health checks in workplaces, blood pressure checks at dentists and opticians.
But that’s just the beginning. Planning for 10 years means we can make long term investments in new technologies that will help catch and prevent problems earlier.
And there are some areas in particular where we’ve just got to be more ambitious, like children’s mental health or children’s dentistry.

 

[fernandopartridge]

What I mean is that one sector of society has an advantage over the others ,as evidence my career saw pretty much wage stagnation across least 20 25 year's,the old this time next year we'll all be millionaires was heard commonly on the exhibition floors across England!

Parliament needs to be moved away from London and its city-driven opulence to bring MPs into the real world.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s just not a good look though, is it? Let’s give train drivers £9,000 and take £300 off pensioners.

I would imagine it could get quite interesting on here after the budget if some of the stuff that’s not being denied happens. How could they justify stopping the single persons council tax discount for example?

Well I can guarantee they’re not about to fix the childcare loophole I referenced earlier, either.

I feel vindicated in not having voted for them, safe to say

 

[fernandopartridge]

Well I can guarantee they’re not about to fix the childcare loophole I referenced earlier, either.

I feel vindicated in not having voted for them, safe to say

What's this childcare loophole?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What's this childcare loophole?

My wife and I are ineligible for any state support with it as a combination of one postgrad student and one full time worker earning above the threshold.

 

[wingy]

My wife and I are ineligible for any state support with it as a combination of one postgrad student and one full time worker earning above the threshold.

What would the support be to other people BSB?

 

[wingy]

What would the support be to other people BSB?

Tax break or similar, Married persons allowance?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What would the support be to other people BSB?

Undergraduate parents can get childcare grants, couples where both parents are in work for a certain minimum of hours also get to claim a given number of free hours of care. And of course there is universal care for older children.

It seems that we fall through the cracks

 

[fernandopartridge]

Oh I see. That is shite.

 

[wingy]

Regulatory speaking, the UK is the most robust when it comes to compulsory refunding for scam and fraud victims, as well as the most comprehensive Ombudsman service, in Europe. Banks MUST refund unauthorised transactions (fraud), with a very limited scope to decline, and soon banks MUST refund victims of scams (Authorised Push Payment - APP - scams), with a limited scope to decline. The UK is the first country in Europe to introduce mandatory refunding for scam victims, and banks have previously signed up to the Lending Standards Board Contingent Reimbursement Model voluntarily to refund victims of scams.

If claims are rejected, and a complaint renders the same response from the business, the complaint can be referred to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) free of charge for the consumer, and if an Ombudsman provides a decision that the consumer accepts, this becomes legally binding to the business, providing a free alternative to a court. The UK is unfortunately a hotbed of fraud and scams, but it does more than pretty much everywhere else in compelling banks to refund victims.

That from the last paragraph about the ombudsman would be quite lengthy process no?

 

[shmmeee]

Groundbreaking stuff:

The stuff on prevention has nothing about any of the people that really cost the NHS, the elderly or dealing with any of the social determinants of health.

NHS can’t do anything about social determinants and what makes you think better monitoring and alerting on patients wouldn’t help the elderly? It’s about early detection as much as anything.

Most of the most costly diseases are drinking smoking eating and lack of exercise related. And people (me) are already moaning that he’s doing too much nanny state stuff.

 

[Nuskyblue]

We already pay taxes according to miles driven, unless you have an electric car.

I have an electric car, every mile I drive is taxed at 20%, as would anyone that is unable to charge at home (which is >50% off the population).

 

[fernandopartridge]

NHS can’t do anything about social determinants and what makes you think better monitoring and alerting on patients wouldn’t help the elderly? It’s about early detection as much as anything.

Most of the most costly diseases are drinking smoking eating and lack of exercise related. And people (me) are already moaning that he’s doing too much nanny state stuff.

I know, but he's not the NHS, he's the prime minister. He can talk about those things if he wants to.

 

[Nick]

Will be a punishment if they take away the single person council tax discount. Its pretty justified.

Means they probably will. Better off living for free in a 4 star hotel and working cash in hand.

Would get free dentist , eye test and prescriptions as well. Bonus. (Paid for all of them in the last month)

Best of all I could just act a c**t and nobody will say anything because they will be far right.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

NHS can’t do anything about social determinants and what makes you think better monitoring and alerting on patients wouldn’t help the elderly? It’s about early detection as much as anything.

Most of the most costly diseases are drinking smoking eating and lack of exercise related. And people (me) are already moaning that he’s doing too much nanny state stuff.

Without being naive, it took me until last year to understand how weight loss even worked, never mind how to pull it off. So much conflicting information too.

A start would be a really direct ‘this is how it’s done’ campaign to the majority overweight/obese population.