CovValleyBoy
Well-Known Member
I think if you can get a couple of million for Eccles he should be offski
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (32 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
- Start date
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I would agree there is some liberalisation too, you can see it some countries in the middle east as well. Question is, is it enough? I don't feel like it is at all. The stats on views towards gay people for example, are well off where they should be. The last poll I checked had about 50% of British muslims thinking homosexuality should be illegal. It's going to need a lot of work if the population percentage increase is going to keep going.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
So not a million miles off Anglican beliefs twenty years ago basically.
I agree there’s work to be done. The only outright homophobia I’ve ever heard at work came from a Muslim woman that no one felt they could challenge and that’s wrong. But that stat you’re quoting drops to 28% with 18-24 year old Muslims which puts them around British Christian levels.
Again I think the answer is more integration and time. But my point if that the stats are heading in the right direction. They’re generally what you’d expect from older and recent immigrants vs second generation or younger and that suggests that far from an islamification of Britain there’s a westernisation of Muslims that immigrate.
You don’t need to ban Islam (that would be counterproductive IMO) or restrict immigration, I’d argue you do need to make sure that kids are growing up around a diverse group of peers.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Some good points there, but I still stand by what I say in general. Going backwards twenty years to go forward makes little to no sense to me. There is some tolerance as Islam is in the minority in this country, I feel that this tolerance will change as that population increases to a certain point, rather than going the other way. Once Islamists hit a certain threshold and get into the parliament, I think we will see some laws in Europe will start to change to reflect Islamic ideals and values. At present everything is pointing to an increase in Muslim population.
I cannot think of a single country in the world where Islam is not the dominant culture and mixes with other religions and values successfully. There always seems to be issues, and frankly we have got enough of our own already. I don't agree on a ban, like you, but I do think we need to stop importing so many people from many of these countries that do have such backward views in such numbers. You might be right, it might level out, but I think that is where we disagree. My feelings are that we are going to see quite a negative culture shift in the years to come.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
It’s a long way from 8% to 51% at a rate of roughly 1% a decade. “Years to come” is doing a lot of work and predicting decades ahead is beyond anyone TBH.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
It don't think it will continue at 1% a decade. In fact, it's already more than that, and that doesn't account for the latest statistics which would include the masses of immigration since Brexit from largely non-eu Muslim majority countries.
We can't predict everything, you are right. We can however look at other examples and align the patterns. It's a fairly new phenomenon in Europe (although there's enough evidence of the trajectory - parts of Belgium, NL, Sweden, France, Germany etc), but there are many countries in Africa and the Middle East where you've seen Islam grow and become dominant - with pretty hostile consequences for non-belivers.
In my eyes it's pretty clear where things will go eventually. We might have to just agree to disagree on this one! Appreciate the good spirit debate though.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
And they “call” boomers and blame them for all their problems.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Couldn't have asked for a more perfect post to prove my point. The idea that the problem will be fixed by simply telling people to shut up, ignore the issues and work harder is a complete head in the sand. All the data indicates the opposite is happening.
My Dad is end of life at the moment so there's been a lot of looking back and discussions with old friends and family. I keep hearing about how he was a hard worker and had a strong work ethic but the reality is his working conditions were far better than mine and the results of his labour far greater. He had a lifestyle I have no chance of attaining despite being more qualified and working longer hours. If I complain I get labelled lazy or criticised for blaming everything on boomers.
Now for my generation we fell for the 'work hard and you'll be rewarded' and despite what some people like to say have a strong work ethic. I work in a company of less than 10 people and in the last 6 months 2 have been taken to hospital for emergency treatment of conditions bought on by stress. How are we helping things by just working people into the ground.
But the real problem will be with the next generation. They look at my generation and think what they fuck are you doing. Killing yourself for someone else's benefit. They have little job security and for many a perception they will have little chance of owning their own house. So they don't really care about having a career. They work a few months in any old job then set off travelling, going to the global south where their wages will stretch for months.
Fear we have a big problem coming down the line if we don't address the issues.
Not if you drop deal before retirement you can't.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
If you're concerned about a huge influx of people in a relatively short space of time you probably need to be looking at global warming as the number of climate refugees we are likely to see in the coming years will absolutely dwarf the numbers now.
Entire countries and continents are well on the way to becoming uninhabitable.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Yep
I think we are a decade away from conflict at borders
Once national defide global issues aren’t there responsibility we have a whole heap of shit landing
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Energy Secretary insists energy bills will be cut by £300 a year by 2030
The overhaul of the energy system is designed to protect consumers from energy price spikes, like that seen in the recent gas crisis, boost energy security and tackle climate change. But the rush to get to clean power by 2030 risks increasing certain short term costs, some analysts warned.
Does anyone think Miliband's 'promise' to cut energy bills by £300 p.a. will be fulfilled?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Energy Secretary insists energy bills will be cut by £300 a year by 2030
The overhaul of the energy system is designed to protect consumers from energy price spikes, like that seen in the recent gas crisis, boost energy security and tackle climate change. But the rush to get to clean power by 2030 risks increasing certain short term costs, some analysts warned.news.sky.com
Does anyone think Miliband's 'promise' to cut energy bills by £300 p.a. will be fulfilled?
Yep
Just need to invest in renewals p
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Energy Secretary insists energy bills will be cut by £300 a year by 2030
The overhaul of the energy system is designed to protect consumers from energy price spikes, like that seen in the recent gas crisis, boost energy security and tackle climate change. But the rush to get to clean power by 2030 risks increasing certain short term costs, some analysts warned.
Does anyone think Miliband's 'promise' to cut energy bills by £300 p.a. will be fulfilled?
wholesale prices should be lower if we invest in renewables but whether that gets passed on to the consumer I have my doubts.
how is the £300 calculated, is there some adjustment for inflation because £300 cheaper than what you pay today with years of inflation seems unlikely so presumably it gets inflation adjusted along the way and means your 2030 bill will be £300 cheaper than it would have been which is likely to come down to how things are calculated.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
FactCheck: government fails to confirm £300 energy promise
The new Labour government has failed to confirm to FactCheck that it stands by a key election pledge to cut energy bills by up to £300 - despite the prime minister saying he was committed to the figure just last week.
www.channel4.com
It was up to £300 based on a study of a 100% clean energy system from 2030.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Saddlebrains
Well-Known Member
I know all politicians lie, especially to get into power
However I genuinely don't think we've seen a government proven to have been lying on such a huge scale, so quickly into their term
However I genuinely don't think we've seen a government proven to have been lying on such a huge scale, so quickly into their term
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
They're not even trying to hide it.
At the next election both Labour and the Conservatives deserve nothing more than a total whitewash defeat. The problem is, I have no faith in the general public using their brains and voting for anything other than a 'safe choice', and I have next to no faith there is anyone else out there willing to step up and fill this void with any kind of common sense approach and policies.
What they're getting away with at present is absolutely shocking, though. I agree with you.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
All of Starmer’s ‘betrayals’ and U-turns as Labour faces Waspi women backlash
The Independent looks at all the times Sir Keir Starmer has let voters down or outright U-turned on his promises on the journey from Labour leader to prime minister
www.independent.co.uk
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I think social media is undermining them completely and they didn’t stand a chance
Left bashing them from the left
Right from the right
Which might mean centrists would feel ok which maybe 30-35% do but x has whipped up an attack on starmer and labour and have brought in everything the tories did before them and they are to blame for that too
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Perfect example of attacking from the right and left in that articleAll of Starmer’s ‘betrayals’ and U-turns as Labour faces Waspi women backlash
The Independent looks at all the times Sir Keir Starmer has let voters down or outright U-turned on his promises on the journey from Labour leader to prime minister
Inheritance tax - marxists
Winter fuel allowance - red tories
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Here’s one that appears more balanced but I’ve been told full fact is funded by the government so isn’t independent I’m not so sure
fullfact.org
Government Tracker - Full Fact
Full Fact is monitoring the government’s delivery on its promises
fullfact.org
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Here’s one that appears more balanced but I’ve been told full fact is funded by the government so isn’t independent I’m not so sure
Government Tracker - Full Fact
Full Fact is monitoring the government’s delivery on its promises
No Pete they’re the worst government ever Twitter told me.
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
I’m not passing judgement or comment on the council tax announcement as, to be honest, I’ve no idea on the detail. The one thing I will say is that clearly economic and geopolitical conditions have changed, and it’s understandable some of Labour’s policies have to change as a result.
In fairness, there’s also plenty that they’ve reneged on or simply fucked up that wasn’t really reliant on certain market conditions. As an example, replacing OFSTED one-word judgements to…a variety of either one-word or two-word judgements. That’s just plain incompetence and a lack of understanding of the underlying issue.
As has been referenced in the Trump thread, their messaging and PR has been pretty pants, even on the good stuff they’ve done, and that I think will kill them when 2029 rolls around.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
That would require a Tory party that isn’t intent on shooting itself in the foot every five seconds.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
I think they'll be fine in 2029, that's why they 're burying all of the shit early on. It will be sunshine and roses for the last two years and voters have relatively short memories. The Conservatives are also in such disarray I think two terms minimum. Especially as I think their vote will be even more populised into Reform in lots of areas, but without enough support to have any real impact.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
People have forgotten what early polling looks like for new governments. In 2015 Milliband was ahead. Thatcher was behind for her first three years. Current Labour polling is great by comparison. Reform really doing them a favour by taking the protest vote and the Tories by trying to be Reform.
It's amazing how short some peoples memories are.
Arguably the key flaghship policy (as part of Brexit): Reduce immigration - went completely the opposite direction to record levels
40 new hospitals
Reduce A&E waiting times
More GPs
Promise not to raise tax (as with immigration, also went to record levels)
More prisons/prison places
300k more homes per year
Fix social care
Levelling up (particularly in the north)
Northern powerhouse rail
Energy cap/lower energy bills
Renter reform
End homelessness
Probably plenty more too.
All promised by the last government and failed, and in some cases made much worse.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Economic and geopolitical situations change all of the time. Kier Starmer's government has the tools to freeze council tax bills and make up the shortfall in budgets itself, it chooses not to. For a party that is talking about putting £ in pockets that seems rather counter productive.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
To be fair, the last government had commenced and spent money on the 40 new hospitals programme. It was happening. It isn't now, Labour has effectively cancelled it for all but the RAAC buildings in imminent danger of collapsing.
I agree with you generally that the Tories promised things and did not deliver, but it's irrelevant really. Labour doing the same just drives the "they're all the same" mentality amongst voters.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
In fairness to Saddle, I don't think he said they weren't useless too. It shouldn't be whataboutery but more about what will be fixed now and what lies this lot are peddling. There are plenty of examples, but as I said they're under no pressure, they have weak opposition and this is the opportunity to bury all of this before they start delivering.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Why are you ignoring early polling for the 1997 or 2001 Labour government?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Im not. But when I’m making the point that new governments often don’t poll well I’m not sure it’s relevant. I know you really really want a Tory govt in 2029, i just think you’ll have to wait a bit.
Saddlebrains
Well-Known Member
This is it
I'm not big in to politics because it's just 2 cheeks of the same arse isn't it
Whoever people have voted for, the crux is Britain is being let down by those in power and has been for decades.
None of them have come up with a plan to actually fix the NHS instead of just saying it
None of them have stopped the rampant profiteering from places such as supermarkets, insurance companies etc
None of them have the bollocks to tell councils and others that the millions they rake in a week from the taxpayer have been pissed away
None of them have got a handle on rampant uncontrolled immigration
I could go on
Britain will always be a choice between 2 parties who are fuck all different when you get down to it