Trump is my favourite comedian of the year already (52 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

What is the safeguard against a future invasion if Ukraine isn't allowed into NATO?

The idea what Ukraine was going to be calling the shots in negotiations was always naive.

 

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[PVA]

But there’s a difference between calling the shots and being cut out of negotiations completely.

It’s absolutely wrong that they should have no say in any prospective deal and that it should be left to Putin and Trump.

 

[Sick Boy]

But there’s a difference between calling the shots and being cut out of negotiations completely.

It’s absolutely wrong that they should have no say in any prospective deal and that it should be left to Putin and Trump.

I don’t disagree but there was never going to be another outcome with the majority of the funding coming from the USA.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The idea what Ukraine was going to be calling the shots in negotiations was always naive.

That doesn't really answer the question. There's been a lot of talk about a surrender agreement being about protecting life, well it doesn't really if Putin can just go back in for more when he likes.

 

[Grendel]

Sad, but probably true.

The main worry for me, is not the disputes over certain regions with Ukraine and Crimea etc, but the fact that Putin doesn't even recognise Ukraine as a country and says it should be Russian. He says the whole country should belong to Russia.

You have to think he feels the same about the other breakaway states that gained independence in the 1990's.

This is why I don't think he will stop if the map is now redrawn slightly and Russian does gain some pockets of area.

I don't think it will be the end.

He doesn’t think that about the other countries - Since the overthrow of the pro Russian president of Ukraine and the actions then took against the Russian population there has always been an inevitability

 

[Grendel]

Well supposedly Biden was warming to the idea and he was president less than a month ago. The rest of NATO seems very amenable to the idea and if Ukraine also wanted to join then it would be a mistake to stop them, no?

A truce “deal” that one of the two combatants has no say over does not seem like a very satisfactory or sustainable outcome.

Biden warming to an idea when he knew he was getting the boot 4 weeks later

 

[Grendel]

A lot of people talk about Article 5 of the Treaty. They then ignore Article 11 which gives all countries a get out if they don’t want military intervention to support an invaded country.

 

[PVA]

A lot of people talk about Article 5 of the Treaty. They then ignore Article 11 which gives all countries a get out if they don’t want military intervention to support an invaded country.

That's not Article 11.

Article 11 is about the initial signing of the treaty.

And Article 5 doesn't mean a country has to put boots on the ground.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Don’t know what’s keeping him
Day 1 this was gonna he sorted
Ffs

 

[PVA]

The word appeasement is being thrown around a lot towards Trump, understandably so.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Don’t know what’s keeping him
Day 1 this was gonna he sorted
Ffs

Too busy sorting out the straws.

 

[Otis]

Too busy sorting out the straws.

Wait til he gets to the final one and watch him panic.

 

[chiefdave]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/02/13/fraud-trump-musk-doge-fail/

 

[shmmeee]

That doesn't really answer the question. There's been a lot of talk about a surrender agreement being about protecting life, well it doesn't really if Putin can just go back in for more when he likes.

SB and Grendel have been Team Putin from the start.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

SB and Grendel have been Team Putin from the start.

Half of that duo of course just doing it to be edgy.

 

[PVA]

Whatever people think of DOGE (and I think some of the conduct appears a bit extreme), some of the stuff they are uncovering, assuming it’s true, is almost comical, as well as also concerning.

Yeah about that...

The Trump administration is expected to purchase $400 million worth of armored Tesla vehicles, according to a new State Department document detailing procurement for fiscal year 2025.

 

[Grendel]

SB and Grendel have been Team Putin from the start.

Sensible as ever I see

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yeah about that...

Absolutely played

 

[CCFCSteve]

Yeah about that...

Apparently that was taken from a doc/list from when Biden was still in office and I think its been refuted/pulled by Trump anyway. Im not sure what’s true. Either way Musks worth $400bn. If that deal was correct, crude maths 15% margin on 400m contract is $60m. Musk owns 13% of Tesla so that’s about $8m net to him. Not sure he’d be going through all this effort, grief and negative publicity for Tesla for that

The potential greater financial benefit is if FSD gets approval in US over the next 12-18 months which is far likelier under a lower regulation government though

I honestly don’t think he’s doing it for any financial benefit though, it seems personal

FWIW I think Musk will cause some damage with how he’s gone about things, probably some of it irreparable. I also think he’ll uncover huge amounts of waste and potentially fraud though. let’s wait and see

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Apparently that was taken from a doc/list from when Biden was still in office and I think its been refuted/pulled by Trump anyway. Im not sure what’s true. Either way Musks worth $400bn. If that deal was correct, crude maths 15% margin on 400m contract is $60m. Musk owns 13% of Tesla so that’s about $8m net to him. Not sure he’d be going through all this effort, grief and negative publicity for Tesla for that

The potential greater financial benefit is if FSD gets approval in US over the next 12-18 months which is far likelier under a lower regulation government though

I honestly don’t think he’s doing it for any financial benefit though, it seems personal

FWIW I think Musk will cause some damage with how he’s gone about things, probably some of it irreparable. I also think he’ll uncover huge amounts of waste and potentially fraud though. let’s wait and see

Steve, he's rampantly breaking the law. The stuff he's cutting and getting rid of is stuff that has already been cleared and signed off by the Congress and President.

You talk about this as though it's an above board process. It's completely illegal.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Steve, he's rampantly breaking the law. The stuff he's cutting and getting rid of is stuff that has already been cleared and signed off by the Congress and President.

You talk about this as though it's an above board process. It's completely illegal.

Ive said before that I don’t agree with how he’s gone about things and above I said I think that he will probably cause some irreparable damage. That doesn’t mean I don’t think he’ll find a load of waste and potentially fraud though. Nothing any of us can do about it. The U.S. public will either see the benefit or live with the consequences. Ultimately they voted for it

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Ive said before that I don’t agree with how he’s gone about things and above I said I think that he will probably cause some irreparable damage. That doesn’t mean I don’t think he’ll find a load of waste and potentially fraud though. Nothing any of us can do about it. The U.S. public will either see the benefit or live with the consequences. Ultimately they voted for it

The actual main fraudster is the sitting President!

 

[Sick Boy]

SB and Grendel have been Team Putin from the start.

Utter nonsense. I think Putin is a c**t and should be locked up.

 

[CCFCSteve]

The actual main fraudster is the sitting President!

Certainly the main grifter. The memecoin release a few days before inauguration proved that. Shameful for a president in waiting

 

[shmmeee]

Utter nonsense. I think Putin is a c**t and should be locked up.

Maybe I’ve got you mixed up from the original thread. I thought at the start you were in favour of a Ukraine surrender but might have been FP

 

[Sick Boy]

It’s pretty laughable that even before negotiations have begun, he’s already made major concessions to Russia.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It’s pretty laughable that even before negotiations have begun, he’s already made major concessions to Russia.

It’s the peace at all cost legacy thing isn’t it

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

It’s the peace at all cost legacy thing isn’t it

I don't think there's really any alternative is there? Ukraine don't really have a good 'deck' do they. There's going to have to be some confessions if the war is going to stop unfortunately.

 

[SBAndy]

I don't think there's really any alternative is there? Ukraine don't really have a good 'deck' do they. There's going to have to be some confessions if the war is going to stop unfortunately.

Regrettably you are right. However, any concessions should be negotiated by Ukraine really. I don’t think there’s necessarily a problem with the USA having a ‘seat at the table’ but that’s not quite what’s happening, is it.

I’ll caveat the above by including the line “under current geopolitical conditions” as clearly the plans will embolden Putin and likely decrease stability across Eastern Europe.

 

[shmmeee]

I don't think there's really any alternative is there? Ukraine don't really have a good 'deck' do they. There's going to have to be some confessions if the war is going to stop unfortunately.

It’s cute you think appeasement stops dictators.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don't think there's really any alternative is there? Ukraine don't really have a good 'deck' do they. There's going to have to be some confessions if the war is going to stop unfortunately.

What concessions will Russia be making?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

It’s cute you think appeasement stops dictators.

What concessions will Russia be making?

Boys, how else are you going to stop the war? Real answers.

It would be nice if Russia could just get what they deserve, but the whole worlds military are not going to get involved, so it isn't realistic. Ukraine should absolutely be involved in the talks, but Russia are the ones with the ball here. How else are you going to stop this? It isn't about appeasement, concessions, or punishment. It is about putting an end to the killing as soon as possible with the most diplomatic means necessary.

 

[shmmeee]

Boys, how else are you going to stop the war? Real answers.

It would be nice if Russia could just get what they deserve, but the whole world’s military are not going to get involved, so it isn't realistic. Ukraine should absolutely be involved in the talks, but Russia are the ones with the ball here. How else are you going to stop this? It isn't about appeasement, concessions, or punishment. It is about putting an end to the killing as soon as possible with the most diplomatic means necessary.

What makes you think this will stop the war?

You’re pretending this is some neutral action but it’s not. It’s taking a proven liars word that he won’t be back in six months once he’s rebuilt capacity for the rest.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

What makes you think this will stop the war?

You’re pretending this is some neutral action but it’s not. It’s taking a proven liars word that he won’t be back in six months once he’s rebuilt capacity for the rest.

You aren't answering the question mate. What is the alternative?

I'm not pretending anything, and I don't think this will stop the war without some measures going in to stop Putin doing it again. I do know what is realistic and what isn't though, so unless you have a better alternative, I'm not really sure how you can come at anyone for that.

 

[Grendel]

It’s cute you think appeasement stops dictators.

The Uk and the EU can fight the good fight if they want to carry on