I've just made the point that Obama's actions show that we need to be more firm, not less. Do you disagree?
USSR invades Ukraine. (12 Viewers)
- Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
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I've just made the point that Obama's actions show that we need to be more firm, not less. Do you disagree?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Absolutely all over the shop trying to defend... something.
The point is that we should be learning from previous mistakes, not repeating them or even making them worse.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Really want to play this game?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Didn’t Trump famously drop more bombs in his first 6 months than Obama did in his 2 terms? In all the same countries bombed under Obama. Including the largest bomb to be dropped in a military operation since Hiroshima by any country, nicknamed the Mother of all Bombs.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
He also ordered the assassination by drone of an Iranian general on his own soil
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Bigger than that dropped in Nagasaki Tonester? Wow where was it?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Not what he actually said was it G?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
That’s a bad thing because…?
Obama sanctioned the assassination of Osama Bin Laden, is that bad too?!
OffenhamSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
He's trying to score points by knowing that Nagasaki was after Hiroshima, i suspect!
OffenhamSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
Slightly different, IMHO - legitimate government (no matter whether you like them or not) versus leader of international terrorist organisation
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Well okay, after Nagasaki then.
By way of comparison the MOAB has about half the blast yield of big boy and wasn’t used under Obama for fear it would be too indiscriminate due to its power and the risk to innocent people was too large. Trump had no such concerns
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
What crimes had the Iranian committed against the US?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Did you know the IRGC (of which Qasem Soleimani was head of) is a designated terrorist group?
… Minor correction, he was killed in Iraq rather than Iran so he wasn’t killed on Iranian “sovereign” soil.
I won’t shed a tear for him and neither should you.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I'm sure in your head you're really pleased with this answer because this is factually correct so you think you've got one over him.
What everyone else thinks is "there's someone who can't actually argue the point that's clearly being made."
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I doubt anyone is thinking anything or cares less
eastwoodsdustman
Well-Known Member
I heard Putins puppet blaming Ukraine in a speach today. They could have stuck a deal 3 years ago apparently.
Its Ridiculous that he can blame a country for being invaded and more so that his supporters will lap it up and stir up anti Ukraine feelings in Amercia.
The blokes an arsehole.
Its Ridiculous that he can blame a country for being invaded and more so that his supporters will lap it up and stir up anti Ukraine feelings in Amercia.
The blokes an arsehole.
Yep, they've got some brass neck these cunts.
Here's the deputy foreign minister on the possibility of peace keeping troops in Ukraine following a peace deal:
"Alexander Grushko added: 'Under whatever guise they appear there, this is a step towards escalation.'"
eastwoodsdustman
Well-Known Member
SkyBlueCharlie9
Well-Known Member
I do Mr King Of Deflection ! Argue your points don't spin off into bewildering off topic 'counter' points which have no relevance.
Yes maybe Obama and Biden were too standoffish towards Russia. Now is our last chance to stand together... but alas step forward the man child.... desperate to make it easier for Putin and therefore harsher for Ukraine and Russian families and children alike.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No Charles I am not deflecting at all.
The mistake the West made historically was to encourage the break up of the Soviet Union and then leave the Russian people in abject misery and hardship without any care whatsoever. Gorbachev promised a land of promise and hope and delivered poverty not witnessed since WW2
Ironically in his fading years even Gorbachev admitted that the East of Ukraine was Russian speaking and its inhabitants should be Russian.
The West should have tried to make alliances with Russia and it didn't. Now we see the outcome.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Mans a NOT gate
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Most of the MAGA/new right lot are also Putin fanboys, partly because they’re coddled children who think big strong men will protect them and partly because they believe everything that Russia puts into their social media feed. It’s no coincidence the same people sucking down Brexit nonsense are now sucking down Ukraine nonsense. All the media savvy of a toddler.
They should have backed him financially to make the gains they were after IMO, but you know this and we disagree on it.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Russia is top 5 in billionaires and top 4 in billionaires per capita in the world. The only people that left the Russian people in abject misery and hardship was Putin and his oligarchs by stealing and hoarding the nation’s wealth.
35% of Russian wealth is owned by just 110 people.
To get to the same share of UK wealth I think you'd need about the richest 2,000,000 people (if my maths is correct!)
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Ok Tonester
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Given you’re the guy that’s directly quoting Putins 2014 address to the nation when the ruble tanked when oil prices collapsed as Russia had Dutch disease to feed himself and his oligarchs billions your response to basic facts doesn’t surprise me. You just can’t bring yourself to lay any blame on Putin. The fact is things could have been very different in Russia if they had invested in other industries instead of a select few investing in super yachts, London property, football clubs etc. They were an industrial might in a prime position to capitalise on it but it was too hard work for Putin and his oligarchs so they got rich quick on natural resources while industry crumbled. They could have easily become a major production centre for the world much like China has, they had all the right ingredients but Putin put his mates and himself first and ordinary Russian people a very distant second. He then created the bogey man of the west and him being the only person strong enough to protect Russia and you’ve swallowed the lot, very easily. The biggest mistake that the west made was believing a man like Putin could be traded with in the interest of lasting peace. Putin was only ever in hindsight going to keep upping the ante because his world is built on a bed of lies. Now here we are.