Hate to break it to you but you are already taking a huge risk with your clubs future by supporting SISU and standing by letting it happen. Pick a risk?! ;-)
Sisu - it's always somebody elses fault (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter skyblueiom
- Start date
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
No, I'm not twisting anyones words. He said he was willing to take the risk that the club could go under. I'm not willing for that to happen. CJ and others have said exactly the same.
OK to want SISU to get out of town, but where does that leave the club? Who is going to pay the players and pay ACL their bloody rent? Who?
OK to want SISU to get out of town, but where does that leave the club? Who is going to pay the players and pay ACL their bloody rent? Who?
Nick
Administrator
What do you mean by standing by and letting it happen? Do you honestly thing shouting SISU OUT or calling them swear words on an internet forum would really make any difference at all?
Danceswithhorses
Well-Known Member
Agreed...they've argued this whole rent thing to the nth degree, played their hand poorly, and now find themselves nearing the end game.
Joy will have to sit down with her lackeys (TF and SW) pretty soon and make a BIG decision.
Either agree to the much reduced, and final rent offer from ACL AND prove there is funding for next year, so they can get control of their own bank accounts again, file the accounts, and have a crack at promotion.
OR pay CCFC player's wages for 2 months (out of their own pockets) and wait for ACL to wind them up in May when they still aren't paying the rent.
Seems an obvious choice doesnt it ?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Well, we'll have to disagree about that. SISU are funding the Club and they have for the last six years to the tune of over £40M. Not the actions of of owners who want to lose all the cash they've pumped in. FIsher was right this morning, it's about the future. It's about when FFP rules squeeze us even tighter next season.
Fans are the first to moan that we don't sign any players - although SISU have signed 16 this season - but imagine next season if we have to play kids to stay within that 60%. I can guarantee that loads will be moaning on here.
It's easy to blame SISU and the Evil Mayfair Hedge Fund but I don't see anyone on here or Hoffman or Bloody Elliot or anyone else putting their hands in their pockets.
Fans are the first to moan that we don't sign any players - although SISU have signed 16 this season - but imagine next season if we have to play kids to stay within that 60%. I can guarantee that loads will be moaning on here.
It's easy to blame SISU and the Evil Mayfair Hedge Fund but I don't see anyone on here or Hoffman or Bloody Elliot or anyone else putting their hands in their pockets.
hill83
Well-Known Member
That's basically the whole thing summed up for me.
Go with Sisu or start playing golf on Saturdays.
Until someone else stupid enough to come in does come in.
ryb1983ccfc
New Member
<p>
<p> </p>
actually be quiet now! You and the other anti council brigade are pudding me off ! Get a grip! So im guessin ur ok with the fact that we have missed out on two players that may well have really helped in the promotion push! And ur ok with the club being run like a joke! If U R get lost and go and support villa
</p>
<p> </p>
actually be quiet now! You and the other anti council brigade are pudding me off ! Get a grip! So im guessin ur ok with the fact that we have missed out on two players that may well have really helped in the promotion push! And ur ok with the club being run like a joke! If U R get lost and go and support villa
ryb1983ccfc
New Member
<p><p>
<p><p>&nbsp;</p></p>
<p>actually be quiet now! You and the other anti council brigade are pudding me off ! Get a grip! So im guessin ur ok with the fact that we have missed out on two players that may well have really helped in the promotion push! And ur ok with the club being run like a joke! If U R get lost and go and support villa</p>
</p></p>
<p><p>&nbsp;</p></p>
<p>actually be quiet now! You and the other anti council brigade are pudding me off ! Get a grip! So im guessin ur ok with the fact that we have missed out on two players that may well have really helped in the promotion push! And ur ok with the club being run like a joke! If U R get lost and go and support villa</p>
skyblueiom
Well-Known Member
It matters not how much these clowns have put into the club....they wanted to get us back to the premier league on the cheap, had no thought for the club, just looking to make a quick buck and it back fired.
Now theyre up shit creek without a paddle - they dont deserve any support and theyre only here because theyre desperately looking for a fairy godmother to ride in on a white horse.
They will never make any money from the club, its a basket case while they remain. The best we can hope for is to call it quits and someone take over the running - but theyre too stubborn to hand it over for nothing so this farce will continue.
I'm sure if the offer of the club for a pound was out there we would get some interest, but even at a quid its a bit overpriced.
Theyve brought a proud club to its knees and they dont give a shit.
Now theyre up shit creek without a paddle - they dont deserve any support and theyre only here because theyre desperately looking for a fairy godmother to ride in on a white horse.
They will never make any money from the club, its a basket case while they remain. The best we can hope for is to call it quits and someone take over the running - but theyre too stubborn to hand it over for nothing so this farce will continue.
I'm sure if the offer of the club for a pound was out there we would get some interest, but even at a quid its a bit overpriced.
Theyve brought a proud club to its knees and they dont give a shit.
hill83
Well-Known Member
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
What has Torchy said that's wrong? SISU have continued to pump money into a Football club that has only made a small bit of revenue and which apparently CCFC is not entitled to the rest of.. It's like running a sweet shop but someone telling you that you can only have the revenue's from the eclairs and not everything else, You'll always be running at a loss, despite that your the main reason you are making revenue on everything else you sell! Fortunately despite this SISU have pumped funding into the club when they could have pulled out..
2 Players we have missed out on this season, What about the 16 players we have signed over the course of the season and they're probably not on small wages either, Dickinson, Clarke, McGoldrick, Bailey, Fleck, I would assume are on £3,000pw and above that is way above average for any player in this league, couple that with the likes of Bell, Baker, Murphy, Wood, McSheffery who are probably near that figure pw if not more.
The club has been run like a joke in the past and SISU have owned up to that and no one is fond of for it, but there also facts as to why CCFC and ACL need to come too a compromise, ACL/CCC are not helping at all in this situation and they are making this situation worse..
It's not Anti Council or Pro SISU but some people believe different people are at fault although you can't ignore one fact, SISU have continued to pump money into this club without barely a return, without a compromise from ACL/CCC on the rent agreement CCFC is going down the swanny! It also doesn't help that c**t Mutton used the words "Hell will freeze over before SISU get their hands on part of the Ricoh"..
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Absolute rubbish! Yes, the club are on it's knees, which is a lot better than others in the past have left it. When we left HR and messed up the Arena deal, the club was face down like a drunk in the gutter. If they were looking for a quick put then they wouldn't have spent £40M+ trying to sort us out.
skyblueiom
Well-Known Member
they have spent 40m because they had no choice - dont you see this?
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
Was talking to a city die-hard business type the other day, certainly not anywhere rich enough to be anything other than a fan.. He mentioned no names, not Elliott or Hoffman or the chinaman or anybody else but did say there is a clutch of like minded well heeled types who will NOT stand by and allow OUR club to just disappear. He also said and can anybody confirm this that if sisu wind this business up there is time he said 28 days for alternative options to happen. The question is could sisu just close the business and ride out of town or can others move in and take over, even if it's a hostile takeover, they do happen, what is the legal side of things regarding that scenerio. Us men of straw basically need reassurance that whatever Coventry City Football Club will continue to exist.
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
They are the ONLY investors in our club. What some £40m is it? I'm sure if you had put a stack of money in you too would be trying to find a way hook or by crook to get the loses down?
They have funded this years playing staff more than any other club in this league. You can only deal with the facts as they are.
They are fighting for what they believe to be a reasonable price to pay for the Ricoh rent and recieve other benefits that should be there's. (match day revenues generated). It's not just the rent issue alone. they have said the £400k is acceptable. They want a deal on other revenue streams alongside that. How difficult can it be to achieve that? Should we be blaming SISU or ACL? Who has continued to make life difficult by getting orders to freeze bank accounts? Who got thenselves out of hock by a restructure of loans through the council?
My goodness both these parties are as bad as each other!
Bottom line is ACL are there to run the stadium operations. CCFC are the main tennent. they need each other. The City of Coventry need a football club. SISU are not great owners but they are the only hope the City has of getting to an end game which SISU have stated is to eventually sell when stability is back and they have something to sell for all their efforts. I have to say I can't deny them that much.
They have in the last 2 years established tremendous inroads on the finances and put the club on a more even keel. To get a deal with the Ricoh is all that stands in the way to move the club forward.
All sides need to wake up from their seemingly belligerent attitudes and get the mess sorted. It's business nothing personal. two sides fighting it out in public - they should be ashamed of themselves. Both of them.
hill83
Well-Known Member
skyblueman
New Member
The key word being compromise has to come from both parties - ACL offer is a big compromise considering what they are legally entitled to - can't see any compromise coming from SISU - sorry but they are big boys they bought the club warts & all for their own financial gain - it was a gamble they thought they could pull it off - they haven't it's now a complete basket case - this is all down to SISU now
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
SISU always had a choice, when they bought the club and were slapped with the news that they were not going to be receiving many revenue streams from the Arena, they probably envisaged that Plan Premier League around it, thinking that if they go into the Premier League they could use the ticket sales and bargain there way to a better deal to sort a suitable rent for the Ricoh, unfortunately the truth is we didn't get promotion and have ended up free falling..
At any time SISU could pull out but they haven't and have continued to pump money into the club..
So to answer your question they DO have a choice
Delboycov
Active Member
Or go with SISU AND start playing golf on Saturday as looks increasingly likely as they oversee the impending death of us as a football club.
skyblueiom
Well-Known Member
Quality answer, really......
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
Agreed SBM there does need to be a compromise and the club was bought at a gamble which more than likely planned for CCFC to be in the Prem within Five years, but your slightly inaccurate with the rest of your post.
Has TF not already stated that CCFC has agreed the £400,000 rent agreement with ACL for the Arena but were requesting more of the revenue streams that they feel they are entitled too? If so then I put the blame at ACL and the revenue they are requesting is based on the public who visit the Arena for CCFC Matchday and not anything else.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Well what are they doing then if they are not going to stand by and do something. Hot air, I would imagine. Anyone who buys Coventry City, a homeless club with a small fan base and a massive rent is stupid. Business types don't tend to be stupid.
skyblueiom
Well-Known Member
Everyone entitled to their opinion which I respect. But this really has the feel of desperation - and it has for years. Just another 5mil and we can get our way out of this mess. This is supposedly a professional business outfit who have fked up big time by taking a huge risk. I guess its the nature of the hedge fund beast, and while any normal business person probably would have thrown the towel in 30 million quid ago SISU ego's wont allow them to do it. ACL are a business too, and while in a tricky situation given the city and the club, they have to do their best to survive. SISU have never managed to convince the majority that they are credible so what is a business to do when faced with such a bad debt?
ashbyjan
Well-Known Member
TF keeps banging on about revenue streams without actually defining what streams he wants. It should also be noted that CCFC sold the rights to the revenue when they sold their 50% of ACL to the charity for £6.5m. Its as if I sold you my car then complained when you wouldn't let me come round use it when I felt like.
ACL offered CCFC their share of the profits from F&B estimated as being worth around £100k per season. They offered to do this on an book basis so CCFC could see all the costs etc. They offered to cross invoice so that CCFC could show the revenue from F&B in their accounts for FFP.
In the new agreement that was offered CCFC would also have got 900 car park spaces again to sell on - estimated profit (and revenue) £150k
Cannot see what more SISU want from the deal.
Sounds to me more like SISU have gambled on a game of brinksmanship and lost - problem being its our club that will suffer.
ACL offered CCFC their share of the profits from F&B estimated as being worth around £100k per season. They offered to do this on an book basis so CCFC could see all the costs etc. They offered to cross invoice so that CCFC could show the revenue from F&B in their accounts for FFP.
In the new agreement that was offered CCFC would also have got 900 car park spaces again to sell on - estimated profit (and revenue) £150k
Cannot see what more SISU want from the deal.
Sounds to me more like SISU have gambled on a game of brinksmanship and lost - problem being its our club that will suffer.
On another thread I suggested that HUBRIS could be the reason why Sisu continue to throw good money after bad:
I've seen this before particularly with the inflamed world of finance where reputations are at stake.
This refusal to admit defeat when everybody can see its going to end in tears adds a curious psychological dimension to this inevitable endgame. The reason it has gone on for so long and in such a ludicrous fashion increasingly points to this as being the only logical explanation.
I've seen this before particularly with the inflamed world of finance where reputations are at stake.
This refusal to admit defeat when everybody can see its going to end in tears adds a curious psychological dimension to this inevitable endgame. The reason it has gone on for so long and in such a ludicrous fashion increasingly points to this as being the only logical explanation.
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
We are told sisu have put £45million into the business snve taking over in 2007 just over 5 yrears ago, don't know how accurate that figure is but it has come out of Tim Fisher's mouth so i take it to be true, he wouldn't lie would he. Now when they took over just 5 years ago we were told we were debt free no overdraft so a zero start. Apparently we are now £45million in the red about what sisu have apparently put in so i assume we owe it them. Now alongside the sisu injection of 45million there are 5 years of gate receipts, 5 years of transfer fees, 5 years of TV money to be added to that 45million, just a guess but i bet it ain't far short of a similar figure. So in 5 years close on 90million around 18 million a year has gone through the business, another guess but i suspect the wage bill to be around £5million a year, we know the rent is £1.2m so where has close on £10million a year gone ?
skyblueman
New Member
Bang on the on the money there dadgad IMO - nothing else makes any sense - and great word too
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Sisu tenure is coming to an end, as they cannot carry on with paying wages and running cost without any hope of getting the investment back. A decision will have to be made sign the rent deal and carry on losing money, sell the club with a deal that gets them some of the investment back or walk away and place the club in admin. Whatever way its not what they or we imagined when they took over, no matter how much i don't like them i wanted success for the club which in term would of meant Sisu getting £ back.
This has be a painful lesson for all involved, but now we need a clear open plan to help this club stand up and build ready for next year.
This has be a painful lesson for all involved, but now we need a clear open plan to help this club stand up and build ready for next year.
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
A group of Swindon business men have just taken over there, poor old Pompey are possibly being taken by their Trust big ground problem there, and/if the shit hits the fan i am confident people will put their heads above the parapet as for owning the ground that would be for a later date and i'm certain will have been discussed..
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I think all that does is demonstrates that the deal for CCFC to buy 50% of the company that operates that stadium costing around half that price isn't all that.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
We weren't debt free we paid off at least £10 million from the prior regime and they inherited players like Ward and Doyle on contracts that were close on £1 million a year. The wage bill then would have been well in excess of £10 million a year, it only got to around £7 million last year. We will have not have accumulated £45 million in revenues through the turnstiles and TV.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Perhaps-but our first refusal expires in 2015.