AFC Coventry (6 Viewers)

[Macca]

I d support us in any league. Whatever it takes to straighten things out

 

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[Diehard Si]

There's a little boy and on his 14th birthday he gets a horse... and everybody in the village says, "how wonderful. The boy got a horse" And the Zen master says, "we'll see."

Two years later, the boy falls off the horse, breaks his leg, and everyone in the village says, "How terrible." And the Zen master says, "We'll see."

Then, a war breaks out and all the young men have to go off and fight... except the boy can't cause his legs all messed up. and everybody in the village says, "How wonderful.".. Now the Zen master says, "We'll see."


SISU step in and save CCFC from going bust, " how wonderful" said the supporters..." We'll see" says the Zen Master.

2013, SISU have failed miserably and CCFC get liquidated... "How terrible" say the supporters.... "We'll see"

 

[theferret]

Think acl /CCC expect to go into admin not liquidate, why would it definitely be liquidation please?

It isn't definite, but it is far more likely.

SISU would gain nothing from administration (potentially), whereas at least with voluntary liquidation they would have some element of control and a time window ahead of instigating proceedings where they could attempt to cash in, divert money, sell assets etc. Then, once proceedings have started, as the main creditor, they would then also be the main beneficiary when they sell Ryton and all other little things like the gym equipment, computers, furniture (but that would all be peanuts I guess). Of course, there is also the possibility (probably much more likely) that someone would step in and buy the company out of liquidation and therefore certain assets would remain in place, but they would benefit from this to a degree.

They would lose big time if the club was liquidated, but with administration they might get little or nothing. An appointed administrator would try to turn the business around. This would coincide with SISU withdrawing funding, and SISU know the business is unsustainable without them and things would go south very quickly and the danger is the club stop paying the bills and you quickly have a situation where there are a whole host of creditors and not just them. So essentially they would be handing their business over and losing control.

That is my basic understanding, but perhaps somebody else might be able to shed more light.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

Several scenarios remain possible. The thought of starting as a new club in blue square is really depressing but to follow the idea in this thread if that scenario arose how many on here would be able/willing to follow the Pompey approach of buying a community share at £1k a time?

 

[torchomatic]

Oh, I don't know. Warwick's a nice place.

I would so hate to live in your world.

 

[Otis]

Several scenarios remain possible. The thought of starting as a new club in blue square is really depressing but to follow the idea in this thread if that scenario arose how many on here would be able/willing to follow the Pompey approach of buying a community share at £1k a time?

I would ..... if I had a grand. Unfortunately I don't though.

 

[Lord_Nampil]

It isn't definite, but it is far more likely.

SISU would gain nothing from administration (potentially), whereas at least with voluntary liquidation they would have some element of control and a time window ahead of instigating proceedings where they could attempt to cash in, divert money, sell assets etc. Then, once proceedings have started, as the main creditor, they would then also be the main beneficiary when they sell Ryton and all other little things like the gym equipment, computers, furniture (but that would all be peanuts I guess). Of course, there is also the possibility (probably much more likely) that someone would step in and buy the company out of liquidation and therefore certain assets would remain in place, but they would benefit from this to a degree.

They would lose big time if the club was liquidated, but with administration they might get little or nothing. An appointed administrator would try to turn the business around. This would coincide with SISU withdrawing funding, and SISU know the business is unsustainable without them and things would go south very quickly and the danger is the club stop paying the bills and you quickly have a situation where there are a whole host of creditors and not just them. So essentially they would be handing their business over and losing control.

With the way Avro is set up, if we were placed in liquidation would ACL get there money???

 

[torchomatic]

Great idea, but the City of Coventry have shown quite clearly that they can't be arsed to turn up to see their team and they haven't for years in sustainable numbers

Crap football, crap owners, crap players, no success, etc etc. There will always be excuses.

If 25K turned up every week then we'd be OK.

Several scenarios remain possible. The thought of starting as a new club in blue square is really depressing but to follow the idea in this thread if that scenario arose how many on here would be able/willing to follow the Pompey approach of buying a community share at £1k a time?

 

[coundonskyblue]

Great idea, but the City of Coventry have shown quite clearly that they can't be arsed to turn up to see their team and they haven't for years in sustainable numbers

Crap football, crap owners, crap players, no success, etc etc. There will always be excuses.

If 25K turned up every week then we'd be OK.

And the club would still be losing about £2m a year

 

[MichaelCCFC]

£1k is a lot of money. I think Pompey have an option of putting in £100 and then you can save till you reach £1k, and they did have some sort of pool system eg 10 people put in £100 = 1 share.
Pompey do seem to be getting a decent number of people buying shares so maybe it could happen here if the brown stuff hits the fan.
Coundon - whether it's pompey/swansea Trusts they've done it/are doing it with co-investors. I don't think anyone reckons fans alone could buy a club the size of ccfc plus finance the on-going investment that is needed. Working as a consortium is what the Swans Trust did and that seems to have worked pretty well.

 

[torchomatic]

True. However, it would be nice if the City could start to support their team.

And the club would still be losing about £2m a year

 

[theferret]

With the way Avro is set up, if we were placed in liquidation would ACL get there money???

No idea, and the more I think about it, the more I think perhaps liquidation is now not the way forward.

Ahead of voluntary liquidation the owners of a company would plan it carefully, divert money out of the business where they can, sell assets etc. Our main assets are the players, but we cannot sell them until the end of the season, but then we have an embargo in place and not only that the bank accounts are essentially frozen. SISU have been backed into a corner, so perhaps they will take the admin route after all. Who knows.

 

[coundonskyblue]

True. However, it would be nice if the City could start to support their team.

Tommy Hutchison said yesterday its time the players started supporting the fans by giving them a reason to go to games.

 

[Pete in Portugal]

Maybe you're right.

Could see a new club at grassroots maybe working. Starting at a much higher level would be problematic for sure.

I agree. But the reality is that any 'phoenix' scenario will be highly problematic. I believe that this should not necessarily deter us from trying to set up a mutually owned FC. I think it's more a question of how many supporters would be prepared to 'buy in' to a new club owned by us.

For more information on this option see http://www.supporters-direct.org/

 

[shropshirecov]

They're still at Ibrox. We probably wouldn't be at the Ricoh. Where would we play?

It would make a few on here unhappy if the council were to help a new club in the blue square, ie let AFC use the Ricoh for a nominal fee and take a share of food/parking etc!

 

[Lord_Nampil]

No idea, and the more I think about it, the more I think perhaps liquidation is now not the way forward.

Ahead of voluntary liquidation the owners of a company would plan it carefully, divert money out of the business where they can, sell assets etc. Our main assets are the players, but we cannot sell them until the end of the season, but then we have an embargo in place and not only that the bank accounts are essentially frozen. SISU have been backed into a corner, so perhaps they will take the admin route after all. Who knows.

I think that's the problem, we don't no where we are going now and everything is up in limbo! After yesterday performance u could say now that limbo is showing on the pitch!!! We need a conclusion to everything quickly we need to no what's going on! To much apprehension on what's right and what's wrong and it's again deviding fans which isn't good! At the end if the day the fans just want a club to support!

 

[torchomatic]

Of course. However, a football club is important to a city and the majority of people in Coventry don't bother, which is a shame.

The old adage of "you won't miss it until it's gone" couldn't be more apt at the moment.

Tommy Hutchison said yesterday its time the players started supporting the fans by giving them a reason to go to games.

 

[coundonskyblue]

<p>

Of course. However, a football club is important to a city and the majority of people in Coventry don't bother, which is a shame.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>The old adage of &quot;you won't miss it until it's gone&quot; couldn't be more apt at the moment.

It would be nice to get more up there, however over the past 40 years I think the team have let the fans down too many times. The next move has to be from the team, they need to give a reason for the fans to go back, and this time not let them down.

 

[shropshirecov]

Of course. However, a football club is important to a city and the majority of people in Coventry don't bother, which is a shame.

The old adage of "you won't miss it until it's gone" couldn't be more apt at the moment.

You seem more erudite than most on here torcho,
Any idea how the Rangers thing worked regarding ibrox and titles etc? I'm clueless to how it works.

 

[theferret]

You seem more erudite than most on here torcho,
Any idea how the Rangers thing worked regarding ibrox and titles etc? I'm clueless to how it works.

Charles Green formed a new company, which had all assets transferred to it from a 3rd party company that had purchased those assets from the liquidated company, hence the new club was able to play at Ibrox. In terms of the name, The Rangers Football Club PLC simply became The Rangers Football Club Ltd.

Contrary to popular belief, we could still be called Coventry City as a new entity.

 

[ashbyjan]

Ibrox belonged to the club and when it went to the wall the "newco" bought up the assets including Ibrox. The titles are technically oldco's and the recent case which wasted a huge amount of money issuing a fine to a bankrupt oldco could have taken the titles away from oldco. New co was allowed to use playing name although name of company changed from Rangers Football club plc to Rangers Football Club Ltd and it is owned by a company called Sevco Ltd. It could have started up in Prem but clubs voted against it and that is why Rangers fans have boycotted cup games at Prem sides to deprive them of revenue.

Bottom line is Rangers went into liquidation when CVA couldnt be agreed and is still in existence - same could and would happen to Cov. We are a big enough club to survive and football authorities would not want a club of our size to fold completely.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Charles Green formed a new company, which had all assets transferred to it from a 3rd party company that had purchased those assets from the liquidated company, hence the new club was able to play at Ibrox. In terms of the name, The Rangers Football Club PLC simply became The Rangers Football Club Ltd.

Contrary to popular belief, we could still be called Coventry City as a new entity.

Yep-it wasn't Rangers which went bust but the holding company. CCFC Holdings could be liquidated, but CCFC Ltd could continue.

 

[ashbyjan]

The only point Mr Ferret is that the title/brand/trademark "Coventry City Football Club" is listed as an asset in the debenture held by Arvo so would need to be bought off Arvo/SISU.

 

[slyblue57]

Could someone explain this wonderful logic of administration, right Sisu go, liquidation, sisu go . Who the fuck
is going to buy CCFc or the ridiculous AFC Cov. We have nothing but a title to buy, Where will we play Any buyer and I mean any buyer will want to own the ground.
The Council see the ricoh as a cash cow. They do not want to sell their share to anyone. No one wants to own half the ground they want it all.
Then theres the, anyone who has half the ground has to develop the surrounding area. Why surely thats the councils job. How much money do you think the Council would accept for their share ? I ll bet its a ridiculous amount not a chance of someone else stepping in.
Pusb whilst we still can

 

[theferret]

The only point Mr Ferret is that the title/brand/trademark "Coventry City Football Club" is listed as an asset in the debenture held by Arvo so would need to be bought off Arvo/SISU.

OK, so it depends what value SISU were to put on that title, and if it was deemed worthwhile purchasing it, or opting for a new name altogether? You would hope the trademark would pass over without any fuss, so that regardless of the companmy name chosen, we could still refer to ourselves as Coventry City Football Club.

How strict is that trademark anyway, would Coventry City FC or AFC Coventry City fall foul of it?

 

[grego_gee]

I think it is conceivable that SISU saw all this coming and even positioned all the "assets" offshore with Argos so that only they can pick up the pieces and start again. It may have been the only other way out of what proved to be an onerous rent/revenue agreement with an intransigent ACL/CCC. When the playoffs are mathematically out of reach we may take a dive of 10 points and survive in L1. Maybe playing at Nene Park with a new owner (that SISU own).

How "perfect" will ACL/CCC look then?
They will probably still refuse to invite SISU back to the table to offer them a proper deal but the "ECHO" Arena will look cute in mothballs!
Maybe after a year or two (and a change of Council) it might get sorted out with CCFC invited back to the Arena.

imp:

 

[ashbyjan]

My reading of the "opportunity" is that no one out there is interested in buying the football club simply as a football club what they would be interested in is buying into the whole complex and the development opportunity there. The charity is desperate to sell its 50% of the complex and put the money to work so they can actually use it for charitable work but their relations with SISU are at such a low that they would be loathed to sell to them and even if they did reach an agreement the council would stop it as their relationship with SISU is just as poor. So someone coming in would immediately buy that 50% and probably take over the running of the complex and start development of the area (which is what the council wants and SISU have never done).

There are companies who wish to invest in the "opportunity" and would take the club as part of it but it is true to say there is no one out there willing either pay SISU millions for the club or simply buy the club and pump in millions. They would buy into the complex, invest in that but also invest in the team but run it within its means, and that is where FFP will create a more level playing field and teams that have a naturally higher revenue will be able to spend more - ie better supported teams will have more money to spend and in League one we are one of those and if we got promoted we would still be competitive.

Also any incoming investor would be looking for supporter involvement as this has been shown to work and the Trust is making sure that all parties know that this would be a preferable model - eg 20% fan ownership rest with investors and the fans would have an even greater emotional involvement in their team and the fans could police that we never get into the financial quagmire the money experts have managed to drag us into for the past 20 years.

Just my take on things and could be wide of the mark.

 

[ashbyjan]

OK, so it depends what value SISU were to put on that title, and if it was deemed worthwhile purchasing it, or opting for a new name altogether? You would hope the trademark would pass over without any fuss, so that regardless of the companmy name chosen, we could still refer to ourselves as Coventry City Football Club.

How strict is that trademark anyway, would Coventry City FC or AFC Coventry City fall foul of it?

This was an issue for Newport County and they had to purchase back their name - for a short while they were Newport AFC - and I think they paid about £8k for the name. Some of it would depend on how petty or hard nosed SISU would be, maybe with Joy telling us just how important the community is to her she would let us have it for nothing?

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

This was an issue for Newport County and they had to purchase back their name - for a short while they were Newport AFC - and I think they paid about £8k for the name. Some of it would depend on how petty or hard nosed SISU would be, maybe with Joy telling us just how important the community is to her she would let us have it for nothing?

I suspect Joy speaks weasel words

 

[skyblue025]

Im pretty sure if you go into Liquidation you drop 2 tiers of the Football pyramid not 2 divisions. So we wouldn't even make the Blue Squre. There can be ways around this i.e. the club that won promotion from the feeder leagues not having a ground good enough for the next tier or a club resigning from their current league as they are skint.

 

[theferret]

Im pretty sure if you go into Liquidation you drop 2 tiers of the Football pyramid not 2 divisions. So we wouldn't even make the Blue Squre. There can be ways around this i.e. the club that won promotion from the feeder leagues not having a ground good enough for the next tier or a club resigning from their current league as they are skint.

There are no rules that I am aware of. As a new entity you can apply to join at whatever level you like, you could apply to join Legaue One again (but no way other clubs would accept that). I suspect an application would be made to the BSP, and it would go to a ballot amongst the clubs in that league. But I stand to be corrected on this.

 

[coundonskyblue]

There are no rules that I am aware of. As a new entity you can apply to join at whatever level you like, you could apply to join Legaue One again (but no way other clubs would accept that). I suspect an application would be made to the BSP, and it would go to a ballot amongst the clubs in that league. But I stand to be corrected on this.

My understanding is that you can go in at the next available spot.

 

[ashbyjan]

There are no rules that I am aware of. As a new entity you can apply to join at whatever level you like, you could apply to join Legaue One again (but no way other clubs would accept that). I suspect an application would be made to the BSP, and it would go to a ballot amongst the clubs in that league. But I stand to be corrected on this.

I believe you are spot on there Mr Ferret - exactly what happened with Rangers, applied to stay in Prem but clubs voted against it. League teams accepted them.

 

[Black6Osprey]

If this club goes then its gone. You can start again in whatever league will take you but it won't be Coventry City. If it only needs the word Coventry in the name you may as well just support the Sphinx now and be happy they are representing the City.

 

[The Penguin]

Several scenarios remain possible. The thought of starting as a new club in blue square is really depressing but to follow the idea in this thread if that scenario arose how many on here would be able/willing to follow the Pompey approach of buying a community share at £1k a time?

The last time I paid money to acquire a share in CCFC, it ended up being forcibly acquired from me for a "negligible" fee.

Forgive me if I'm slightly reticent about doing it again