Acl back on cwr again (9 Viewers)

[jesus-wept]

No, sisu are taking a financial hit.
I do not agree it is 'to spite ACL' - it's an investment in future profit from adding a stadium to the club.

And that is what happens with investments, but what has happened here is these so-called investments made by sisu and some of their customers have become loans, in other words even if you lose you win. Who thinks that if investing in Cov City had been a mega success how much of the profits would have been given to the team manager for investment in the squad. Not a lot

 

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[Godiva]

So why not try to arrange to play at the Ricoh during the "three years" of stadium building, so taking avoiding the financial hit?

That would be excellent!
Do you think any negotiation to achieve that will be easier or more difficult if the lease is part of the negotiation? As long as it is 'alive' it has a value for ACL and subsequently a potential cost for the club.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Out of date information but nevertheless the only information available if the more recent accounts haven't been signed off.

I'm glad you agree that no updated analysis is possible at this time due to accounts being overdue (again).

 

[Moston]

SISU starting to show their true colours to the rest of the world?

They refuse to listen to Hoffman's offer - they refuse to have a meeting with ACL brokered by the FL WHY???


These are not the actions of a reasonable party.

Joy's refusal to meet unless the CVA is signed reveals that the wheels are falling off their schemes - I reckon they KNOW that if they had that meeting that the FL would see for themselves that SISU really DO have the option of playing in Coventry and I suspect that irrespective of any agreement on the day the FL would see sense and decline them permission to move to NTFC.

The condition of the signing of the CVA is just a smokescreen, SISU have just picked on the one thing they know ACL won't do ahead of the meeting - no-one in their right frame of mind would sign it at this stage....thereby side-stepping a meeting that would have seen us back in Coventry and SISU's plans (!?!) thereby up the swanny.

To me there are warning bells galore about how assets have been moved from Ltd to Holdings just before Administration, now we hear about the Company Secretary being at least 'questionable'. At the very least there needs to be a proper and full investigation into all this - and NOT just by the FL. To simply side-step this by ACL signing the CVA would be a criminal waste of a golden opportunity.

SISU appear to be trying everything to avoid questions being asked by folk in authority - WHY!?! hiding something Joy?

As for the Council not saying anything - well SISU stitched their gobs shut by placing a High COurt Order on them - they're not allowed to say anything in public now! - Very celever SISU - but folk outside Cov are now putting the pieces together to see what you're doing.

CCFC were given a slow death sentence the day SISU took control, the City need to do anything and everything to remove every last vestage of their presence from the City.

If this leads to the life-support being switched off and we have to start again under a different label - so be it - I'd rather support a non-league team free of this crap. In the same way AFC W'don are recognised as descended from the team that won the FA Cup - Cov can and will start again.

Our City has faced worse in the past and we're still here.

:blue:

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So you think that SISU should only pay the same rent at the Ricoh, as they're paying at Sixfields (a stadium less than a quarter of the size), despite the fact that average attendances at the Ricoh would be between 4k and 8k higher per match?

Very strange way to run a business.

It only takes a back of a fag packet calculation to show that even with higher rent at the Ricoh our net income is still vastly greater. Godiva also seems to be under the impression that SISU will happily just throw the money in to cover the resulting losses without wanting it back. If the stadium actually gets built our group debt to SISU will be frightening.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

No, sisu are taking a financial hit.
I do not agree it is 'to spite ACL' - it's an investment in future profit from adding a stadium to the club.

They have no intention of adding a stadium to the club. Not a new one, anyway.

Do you genuinely believe they wish to build anew?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That would be excellent!
Do you think any negotiation to achieve that will be easier or more difficult if the lease is part of the negotiation? As long as it is 'alive' it has a value for ACL and subsequently a potential cost for the club.

There's a much larger cost that will definitely be incurred from groundsharing but SISU are quite happy to put it on the club's tab.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

That would be excellent!
Do you think any negotiation to achieve that will be easier or more difficult if the lease is part of the negotiation? As long as it is 'alive' it has a value for ACL and subsequently a potential cost for the club.

I think it would have been much easier without a rent strike, threat of liquidation by the CEO etc, but we are where we are.

It seems pretty clear that both the club and ACL would be better off in the short term with an agreement to play at the Ricoh, for at least the coming year.

Logic suggests that it is consequently in their mutual interest to put all other matters to one side, sit down and try to negotiate a deal.

One side seems to agree with this course. One doesn't.

 

[dongonzalos]

Never have worked for ACL

I posted just what was said on the radio

I wouldn't even grace that with an answer now

 

[Godiva]

It only takes a back of a fag packet calculation to show that even with higher rent at the Ricoh our net income is still vastly greater. Godiva also seems to be under the impression that SISU will happily just throw the money in to cover the resulting losses without wanting it back. If the stadium actually gets built our group debt to SISU will be frightening.

Oh ... where did I ever said they want nothing back???
They want to make a fortune out of their investment! They will have it all back ... and yet some!

The group debt to sisu is already frightening, but as the club add a stadium to the books and actually start making a profit from the overall operation, then debts can be exchanged to equity as the loans will 'only' keep their value while the shares will raise in value.
And when that time comes ... 5 or 6 years from now, then there will be no need for a debt-wall to fend off a potential hostile takeover. The debts will have served its purpose.

 

[Moston]

SISU are a hedgefund made up of a load of investors.

If 'you' were one of those investors - looking at the track record of SISU over the last 7 years - and they came to you with the news that they wanted a shedload more money to build a new stadium - would you 'jump for Joy' (see what I did there!?) at the prospect? - OR WALK?

There will never be a new stadium in Cov built by this lot - it's all smoke and mirrors to detract from the truth.

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

i heard it,i also see council refuse to sign CVA to get meeting to go ahead

just like the refused to negotiate an acceptable rent years ago, or even entertain selling 50% of ricoh

it didnt have to come to this

greedy cunts

Thanks for your quality use of the English language. The Council has been advised to not say anything about the club or ACL until after a decision has been made concerning the judicial revue, this was stated by PWKH. This is a legal instruction from their barrister, this will also be the case if their is any further legal investigation into SISU and their accounting procedures at the club.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Oh ... where did I ever said they want nothing back???
They want to make a fortune out of their investment! They will have it all back ... and yet some!

The group debt to sisu is already frightening, but as the club add a stadium to the books and actually start making a profit from the overall operation, then debts can be exchanged to equity as the loans will 'only' keep their value while the shares will raise in value.
And when that time comes ... 5 or 6 years from now, then there will be no need for a debt-wall to fend off a potential hostile takeover. The debts will have served its purpose.

Suppose a stadium costs £30m and the losses incurred at Northampton, including a likely relegation over a 3 year period, come to a total of say £5m. Yes you own a ground but the group's debt to SISU is a good £70m+. How do you sell a League 2 club, even owning its own ground, for anywhere near this sum?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

ACL asked FL if they would broker talks on Monday at their meeting. ACL placed no conditions on the talks
JS was contacted Tuesday, needed time to think
JS replied mid day Wednesday said no not unless ACL signed the CVA first
Offer remains on table but will be reviewed after ACL see what happens at the CVA meeting 22/07

In ACL's opinion the ability to hold talks and the CVA are not linked. Whatever happens with CVA the assets of the club are presently in CCFC H and they are operating the Club. If CCFC Ltd liquidated the club would still be there

ACL want CCFC at the Ricoh

Question - why is the signing of the CVA so important ?

They are either doing what they have done on every issue that we are aware of - playing hard-ball...demonstrating their power having stitched-up what they turned into a rival, OR are they know they have something to hide & pray their usual hard-ball tactics scare the other party into submission.

IMO they are finally in a bit of a flap over all this, & some are starting to worry that if everything is revealed in any subsequent investigation should the CVA be rejected, the law might come & bite them on the backside!

 

[covcity4life]

Thanks for your quality use of the English language. The Council has been advised to not say anything about the club or ACL until after a decision has been made concerning the judicial revue, this was stated by PWKH. This is a legal instruction from their barrister, this will also be the case if their is any further legal investigation into SISU and their accounting procedures at the club.

you come accross very rude,you might want to look into that

PKWH said he wants to continue negotiations but then threw an insult at tim fisher and said he doesnt want to be around him

PKWH is an immature dickhead and needs to be sacked.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

SISU are a hedgefund made up of a load of investors.

If 'you' were one of those investors - looking at the track record of SISU over the last 7 years - and they came to you with the news that they wanted a shedload more money to build a new stadium - would you 'jump for Joy' (see what I did there!?) at the prospect? - OR WALK?

There will never be a new stadium in Cov built by this lot - it's all smoke and mirrors to detract from the truth.

Absolutely and totally correct. At this stage, readied to move the club 30-odd miles away into a different town, if there was a slither of intent, there would be plans to show to the fans to keep them onside, etc. There's nothing. Why? It doesn't exist as a real plan.

They have only one intent. To break ACL. There's nothing else.

The rent strike, then F&B issue (both of which are blown out of the water with regards credibility by the move to Sixfields), the judicial review, the dismissed offer from Hoffman and this latest turn; only point towards one thing.

If at least those who fight SISU's corner would have the good grace to acknowledge the end-game and stop defending this pantomime, we could at least have a debate as to whether their route is 'all worth it'. As surely, that's the only issue

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

you come accross very rude,you might want to look into that

PKWH said he wants to continue negotiations but then threw an insult at tim fisher and said he doesnt want to be around him

PKWH is an immature dickhead and needs to be sacked.

Read the first line of your post.

Now read the third line.

 

[treenie01]

Is stating that sisu will only talk to acl if they sign the Cva not blackmail?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

you come accross very rude,you might want to look into that

PKWH said he wants to continue negotiations but then threw an insult at tim fisher and said he doesnt want to be around him

PKWH is an immature dickhead and needs to be sacked.

You call an entity 'greedy cunts' and then call another poster a 'dickhead'; then try and call someone rude?

You're either on the wind-up; or a feckin' lunatic

 

[dongonzalos]

Sisu don't want it to be part of the negotiation. Without it ACL has nothing.

They can either say: Ok, we sign the CVA and show willingness to start a fresh, or they can refuse the CVA and say 'Goodbye and good riddance'.
If they don't sign, the club has definetely played the last game at the Ricoh.
If they sign, well then it's down to the rent for the next 3-4 years. If it's approximately the same overall cost as at sixfields I think we will play at the Ricoh. More expensive, we won't.

Unlikely to happen but at this stage the FL should remind SISU that the GS has not been transferred yet. That they need all sides to show they have tried everything to meet FFP regulations.
That Joys demands for things to happen before you negotiate. Defeat the object of a negotiation.

The FL are a mediator and should force SISU to the table.

What is stopping ACL signing the CVA then SISU come to the table with no intention of doing a deal.

Unfortunately as we are now aware the FL just care about fixtures. So the CVA getting signed and no deal suits them

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Is stating that sisu will only talk to acl if they sign the Cva not blackmail?

Not quite blackmail; but it puts a precondition - without promise - on negotiations. And the nature of that precondition greatly weakens ACL's position; both in those discssions, and after.

It's - in effect - a no by proxy

 

[treenie01]

This is nearly as complicated as my fiancé's divorce

 

[grego_gee]

Deliberate misinformation grego!!

Yes it is but not by me!
I just made an observation on an open forum saying it was an acceptance with one condition.
It was another observer that went onto the radio and said it was a refusal!

imp:

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Unlikely to happen but at this stage the FL should remind SISU that the GS has not been transferred yet. That they need all sides to show they have tried everything to meet FFP regulations.
That Joys demands for things to happen before you negotiate. Defeat the object of a negotiation.

The FL are a mediator and should force SISU to the table.

What is stopping ACL signing the CVA then SISU come to the table with no intention of doing a deal.

Unfortunately as we are now aware the FL just care about fixtures. So the CVA getting signed and no deal suits them

Yes, the FL's position that they OK'd the move to Northampton because it was "impossible" for City to play at the Ricoh, looks less and less defensible as each day goes by.

 

[dongonzalos]

With respect who is OSB ? as I see it just a poster on here and in the main good interesting posts at that. Any investigation into how the debts stacked up will be done by people with power to act if dodgy dealings are unearthed. Joy Seppalla wants this all killed off, she has vetoed any meeting brokered by the FL while the cva is unsigned. She is top dog at sisu, what she says goes, she hasn't guaranteed a meeting and there certainly is no guarantee of accepting any proposal coming from any such meeting.The Football League must now re-look at th their decision

The football league are an absolute disgrace
Bob should bare that in mind when he tables his next motion

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Yes it is but not by me!
I just made an observation on an open forum saying it was an acceptance with one condition.
It was another observer that went onto the radio and said it was a refusal!

imp:

Acceptance with one condition that you're pretty sure will be refused is pretty close to a refusal though.

Don't you think?

 

[dongonzalos]

You call an entity 'greedy cunts' and then call another poster a 'dickhead'; then try and call someone rude?

You're either on the wind-up; or a feckin' lunatic

Brilliant

 

[SkyBlue76]

Is stating that sisu will only talk to acl if they sign the Cva not blackmail?

Not blackmail, but a 'negotiation' stance. Although there is a fine line between them. I want to believe that Joy has shown her hand in these negotiations and revealed how important the CVA is to them - if that is the case I would urge ACL not to sign it.

However, every time we think SISU are on the ropes, they still come out on top, so the CVA could simply turn out to be a red herring.

As a fan who always tries hard to cling onto hope, I still believe the CVA is key to all this and that SISU are scared of the investigation if the CVA is rejected. I'm willing to take that risk.

ACL - PLEASE REJECT THE CVA!!!!!!!!!

 

[dongonzalos]

Suppose a stadium costs £30m and the losses incurred at Northampton, including a likely relegation over a 3 year period, come to a total of say £5m. Yes you own a ground but the group's debt to SISU is a good £70m+. How do you sell a League 2 club, even owning its own ground, for anywhere near this sum?

You will need to clear 100 million when you sell it.

 

[James Smith]

i heard it,i also see council refuse to sign CVA to get meeting to go ahead

just like the refused to negotiate an acceptable rent years ago, or even entertain selling 50% of ricoh

it didnt have to come to this

greedy cunts

SISU hadn't started any serious negotiations about the rent, before they started the boycott, it was in the Trust Q&A. So that was down to SISU not the council.

 

[sky blue john]

I remember reading somewhere about hedge funds that it is like betting and they can make money on a losing outcome.
Have the bastards that own ccfc bet on them to lose ?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You will need to clear 100 million when you sell it.

The money owed by SBS+L to the SISU funds in the most recently filed accounts was around £30-35m. What this figure will be now is anyone's guess and what it would be with a new ground factored in would at least be north of £60-70m.

 

[covcity4life]

SISU hadn't started any serious negotiations about the rent, before they started the boycott, it was in the Trust Q&A. So that was down to SISU not the council.

of course it was, council are 100% good guys.

hehe

 

[covcity4life]

You call an entity 'greedy cunts' and then call another poster a 'dickhead'; then try and call someone rude?

You're either on the wind-up; or a feckin' lunatic

i said he might want to look into it

i am happy being rude

dont be so slow in future.

 

[grego_gee]

half full or half empty?
it could be said SISU have agreed to the talks under the FL if the CVA is signed.
It will cost ACL over half a million if they don't sign so they will probably sign it next week anyway.
they could sign it now and start negotiations a week earlier.

imp:

Acceptance with one condition that you're pretty sure will be refused is pretty close to a refusal though.

Don't you think?

as I said in my first post,
If they don't sign the CVA, it will cost ACL 700k that they can't afford to lose!
So its not a condition that will be refused its just a matter of when it is accepted!

imp: