letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
If it is Dross where are your figures?
At least he has tried to prove his theory you haven't?
At least he has tried to prove his theory you haven't?
What does it take to reignite the club? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Macca
- Start date
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Yes I remember crowds of 13,000 regular at highfield rd playing top class football we had maybe 3-4 sellouts in a season.
So what would we get now if we were playing in the Prem.
Leicester are getting in the low 20,000 this season what will they get next season after promotion,
They are a similar sized Club to us who had similar crowds?
So what would we get now if we were playing in the Prem.
Leicester are getting in the low 20,000 this season what will they get next season after promotion,
They are a similar sized Club to us who had similar crowds?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
No real answer to when did we last do well either?
Maybe we should just stick to lauding SISU's hard ball tactics. It's panning out for us well so far.......
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Called me a liar yesterday because I replied to a thread and said he was the same as another poster by not replying to questions...... We are waiting G.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Well for a start I do not understand where the rise in a average attendances don claims comes from. You can only really look at the championship as a guide and from what u can see averages have declined marginally from around 17,400 to below 17,000.
The Ricoh average at the time was a significant distortion due to new ground syndrome and even then only achieved by charging an average of £10 a game. The trend was down from season one and eventually returned to the14,000 we had at highfiekd road.
The "doing well" comment is without meaning. Consider this though, only a couple of teams average above 25,000 in the championship. We would not be one if the top supported teams. The likes of forest Norwich and Southampton continued to attract 20,000 plus gates in division one - double our attendance. To suggest therefore we can match these crowds is without any substance as well.
Interestingly Brighton average the most in the championship. At least this proves one thing - moving a club away for a while and not having a proper ground for years has a positive on attendances when you return.
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
You have to give it to our present and previous owners we were the only club in the country that didn't charge full price for children and other consessions
stupot07
Well-Known Member
You're ignoring the new ground syndrome that the Ricoh had, so the 19k had more to do with the pull of the Ricoh than of where we were finishing. Last season at highfield Road was approx 15k.
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letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
thatb is where your missing the point was that still not more then most seasons in the Prem? Away fans average 1000 at the Ricoh what would have it been in the prem?
You're ignoring the new ground syndrome that the Ricoh had, so the 19k had more to do with the pull of the Ricoh than of where we were finishing. Last season at highfield Road was approx 15k.
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
95% of revenue in the premier league is not related to attendances I'm assuming this debate is about championship football. In the premier league if its 20,000 or 30,000 or 10,000 its irrelevant from a finance perspective.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
But how many season ticket holders did we have in the prem and how many in the championship.
Don't believe it was a big difference so we went down a league played more unfashionable teams but managed to have a bigger average home crowd?
If we had been in the Prem we would have a minimum 25,000 average crowd.
It is not to do with the Ricoh it is to do with football being more popular especially among the younger generation shame we couldn't capitalise more on that then maybe the pie money wouldn't have been such a big issue.
And as for the teams you have mentioned have they not been more successful then us in resent years?
You have to put it all in perspective.
Don't believe it was a big difference so we went down a league played more unfashionable teams but managed to have a bigger average home crowd?
If we had been in the Prem we would have a minimum 25,000 average crowd.
It is not to do with the Ricoh it is to do with football being more popular especially among the younger generation shame we couldn't capitalise more on that then maybe the pie money wouldn't have been such a big issue.
And as for the teams you have mentioned have they not been more successful then us in resent years?
You have to put it all in perspective.
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dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
You're ignoring the new ground syndrome that the Ricoh had, so the 19k had more to do with the pull of the Ricoh than of where we were finishing. Last season at highfield Road was approx 15k.
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So will we get a new stadium factor when we return to the Ricoh?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
You're ignoring the new ground syndrome that the Ricoh had, so the 19k had more to do with the pull of the Ricoh than of where we were finishing. Last season at highfield Road was approx 15k.
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Also do u think the extra 4 k were stadium fans or Coventry fans? The potential is there...
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
So we finally get to it revenues from a stadium are totally irrelevant :claping hands:
TheParsonsHose
Member
Playing at Sixfields will ignite the club literally,stadium is key.
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
You're ignoring the new ground syndrome that the Ricoh had, so the 19k had more to do with the pull of the Ricoh than of where we were finishing. Last season at highfield Road was approx 15k.
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Without going all Fisher, it's about the point in the cycle we were at.
Do you see our current position as bottoming out? Do you expect us to go up?
The stats show that we lose fans in two main ways: a large chunk (5k or so) on relegation and a continual decay of the supporter base year on year without any major changes in success. The latter loses us between 500-1k fans a season.
We gain fans when we have some success or have a new stadium. Examples would be previous promotions adding 25-30% on, the Ricoh did a bit more, the cup win and the brief period in the Prem when we were competitive (though only by a couple of thousand instead of the 5k+ of other events).
All this talk of "natural supporter base" is crap. The gate we bring in is relative to our success. The club can gain fans in two main ways: slowly over time through continual good football and reasonable success (happened briefly under Strachan) or gain a large chunk (5-7k) by getting promoted (from ANY division). That's before you take into account the relative popularity of football today and in the 60s when we previously had success.
The only question about the stadium capacity that needs answering is: Do our owners see us getting promoted or having reasonable sustained success on the pitch in the next 2-3 years?
If the answer is yes then 12.5k is too small even for the first season.
If the answer is no then we need to ask questions of the owner's ambition IMO.
thaiskyblue
New Member
obvious, sisu out.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I completely agree that 12.5k isn't big enough, I also agree that you would get increased crowd from promotion, however the increases are nowhere near the 5-7k. We won't suddenly get 20-22k on promotion to the championship IMO, it will more likely return to 15-16k that we had in our last 2 seasons in the championship. Just looking at the effect of promotion over the last 3 seasons, Southampton aside (won automatic promotion with a wage bill circa x3 of our turnover) and Brighton (new ground unable to compare) most teams see an increase of 1-3k, and some that is increase away crowds.
Doncaster 7200, 8800 (+1.6k)
Yeovil 4070, 6850 (+2.8k)
Bournemouth 6800, 9700 (+2.9k)
Sheff Weds 21300, 24,100 (+2.8k)
Huddlesfield 14100, 15,100 (+1k)
Charlton 17,500,18,500 (+1k)
Southampton 22,100 , 26,400 (+4.3k) (automatic promotion)
Brighton moved to new stadium for first season in championship
Peterborough 6,500, 9,100 (+2.6k)
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I completely agree that 12.5k isn't big enough, I also agree that you would get increased crowd from promotion, however the increases are nowhere near the 5-7k. We won't suddenly get 20-22k on promotion to the championship IMO, it will more likely return to 15-16k that we had in our last 2 seasons in the championship. Just looking at the effect of promotion over the last 3 seasons, Southampton aside (won automatic promotion with a wage bill circa x3 of our turnover) and Brighton (new ground unable to compare) most teams see an increase of 1-3k, and some that is increase away crowds.
Doncaster 7200, 8800 (+1.6k)
Yeovil 4070, 6850 (+2.8k)
Bournemouth 6800, 9700 (+2.9k)
Sheff Weds 21300, 24,100 (+2.8k)
Huddlesfield 14100, 15,100 (+1k)
Charlton 17,500,18,500 (+1k)
Southampton 22,100 , 26,400 (+4.3k) (automatic promotion)
Brighton moved to new stadium for first season in championship
Peterborough 6,500, 9,100 (+2.6k)
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Just a small point. Our current crowd (ignoring this season and taking the trend from last) would be roughly 10k this year. So I'd make it 15k if we got promoted this year, which is consistent with a 5-7k rise.
Not sure where you got 20k from. Though theres no reason we couldn't do it if we combined promotion with a successful first season up.
Id also say that it's a moot point. My real point was that attendance is a function of ambition. Which is why I get annoyed when the likes of Garlick smirk about us "not having big crowds" when she's only looking at a downward spiral.
I worry for that stadium forum. There's a large amount of stupid in that room, several people can't grasp basic points and were miles off in their "facts".
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WillieStanley
New Member
Most of it..
[Owners who I actually believe gives a rats arse about making the footballing side of things successful. how? By throwing money at the problem?
A club that has the ambition that it is big enough to consistently attract 25k fans. how? By spending money the club hasn't got, on players it can't afford? This is the whole reason fan ownership would never work here.
A club that understands the importance of a bit of consistency in a season. we are consistency personified - start strong, finish weakly, season after season
It tries to do its business in the summer and fights tooth and nail to keep what it devised in the summer in one piece till the next summer. yes, but you can't do much about someone like Clarke who's handed in a transfer request and then refused to play.
A club that explains its decisions to the fans and those decisions make sense. nice idea, but can't see this working, what makes sense to one person, doesn't necessarily makes sense to another, just look at perceptions of who is/isn't to blame, or what percentage blame is attached to who. Interesting Mickey Adams views on Operation Premiership, spin and rhetoric lapped up by fans, but no money for Mickey to back it up
A club that believes in their manager then gives him a fighting chance. Pressley's been given a fighting chance as was robins/thorn last season. We'd be in touching distance of the play offs
The bottom line is most of your wish list will never happen whilst we are tenants and not accessing matchday and other revenue.
The season we got relegated there were 10-11 teams with lower attendances, yet our income/turnover was in the bottom 3-4. More over the 3 promoted teams had wage bills circa 3x the size of our entire income/turnover. You want us to be ambitious, achieve 25k regulars, back the manager, fight at the right end of the table, do you advocate a new owner spending circa x3 our income/turnover on wages to take a punt? How much would need to be spent on transfers? Another £5-10m?
We don't need that crap again, if we ever get out of this situation I never want to go through this again. That means a different approach, like Swansea. I believe Pressley is starting to do this, but it takes time.
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Potentially the best post I've read on this forum
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Says man on Coventry City forum.
@WilleyStanley: I found it a rather sad indictment of how our fans see each other to be honest.
rondog1973
Well-Known Member
Yep, what was one fans "One of the best posts on this forum" I found to be the most pessimistic, half glass full, undemanding, frankly kow-towing summarisations of what we Cov fans should expect.
For fuck's sake! I know we are a unique case in that we have not had a top six finish in any division for more than 44 years, but has it really dulled some supporters ambition, aspiration and outright self regard that much? 315,000 populace plus city and nearby towns & villages to draw on and you'd think we were Macclesfield Town the esteem some of our fans hold their own club in.
31,000 for one game last season don't forget. A sustained assault on league 1 and the Championship and we would demonstrate quite easily that clubs like Southampton and Middlesborough are our contemporaries, both in size and ambition.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
You've completely missed the point of the post.
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stupot07
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately Shmmeee with the money sloshing around PL, talked about flippantly in the media, most fans expect owners to throw money at the problem. We get plenty of it on here, 'not being ambitious enough', needing a owner who values the football side (I.e. Spending money on transfers, wages). Even in the PL I remember the conversations with fellow fans - "are you renewing your ST this season?", "nah, I'm gonna leave to see if we sign anyone decent first".
We've had it just recently with Clarke leaving and bemoaning the lack of permanent replacement. We have no idea who they were looking at and what prices they were being quoted (it's usually higher in Jan). They may have been quoted overinflated prices for players nowhere near as good, should we have just signed someone for the sake of it?
Even last season, fans were suggesting we should have offered DMG a £10k per week contract (we were only paying £2k pw of his wages) because it would have been worth the punt if we got promoted.
I'm not saying we should have no ambition, more that we need to go down the long term Swansea route, which will take time than the Southampton/leicester throw money at it.
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dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately Shmmeee with the money sloshing around PL, talked about flippantly in the media, most fans expect owners to throw money at the problem. We get plenty of it on here, 'not being ambitious enough', needing a owner who values the football side (I.e. Spending money on transfers, wages). Even in the PL I remember the conversations with fellow fans - "are you renewing your ST this season?", "nah, I'm gonna leave to see if we sign anyone decent first".
We've had it just recently with Clarke leaving and bemoaning the lack of permanent replacement. We have no idea who they were looking at and what prices they were being quoted (it's usually higher in Jan). They may have been quoted overinflated prices for players nowhere near as good, should we have just signed someone for the sake of it?
Even last season, fans were suggesting we should have offered DMG a £10k per week contract (we were only paying £2k pw of his wages) because it would have been worth the punt if we got promoted.
I'm not saying we should have no ambition, more that we need to go down the long term Swansea route, which will take time than the Southampton/leicester throw money at it.
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Treating your fans with respect
Been open and honest with your fans.
Showing a real interest in the football club and the football side of things.
Making decisions and explaining them so the fan can understand and accept.
Costs nothing.
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rondog1973
Well-Known Member
I think you completely missed the point of the OP.You've completely missed the point of the post.
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Update, actually I meant dongonzalos's first post.
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Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
It's a gradual decline though and the club's ambition is matching the trajectory of minimising expenditure
play_in_skyblue_stripes
Well-Known Member
Have the players and manager had enough of the charade that is SISU' s ownership?
We have to get home to Ricoh Arena.
SISU just go.
We have to get home to Ricoh Arena.
SISU just go.
WillieStanley
New Member
I just don't want to be in the situation we were in just as SISU were taking over. It's just foolish to believe that throwing money at something will work. All this speculate to accumulate is risk after risk, and it rarely works. We need to have a long term vision and be patient.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I am happy with a long term vision but not one where we end with no home ground in Coventry in Conference North
play_in_skyblue_stripes
Well-Known Member
There is a judicial review soon. Nothing likely to change until that completes.
We have to let the judiciary determine the outcome of the Ricoh Arena situation and accept their findings.
I've moved on until then.
PUSB.
We have to let the judiciary determine the outcome of the Ricoh Arena situation and accept their findings.
I've moved on until then.
PUSB.