The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
What about the beer and stool throwers?
Higgs vs CCFC Court Row (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
What about the beer and stool throwers?
Lorksalordy
New Member
Surely The Mad Hatters must warrant some sort of charge
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
More details have come to light ahead of a court row between two of the main parties in the Ricoh Arena dispute.
The Alan Edward Higgs Charity will face Coventry City owners Sisu at Birmingham High Court on Tuesday over costs incurred during failed negotiations.
The case centres on the charity’s claim for £29,000 based on a negotiation clause which it claims stated that if Ricoh Arena talks broke down Sisu would cover the charity’s costs accrued as part of the process.
However, Sisu is defending the claim and has brought a counter-claim against the charity - ten-times that amount at £290,000 for their own costs from the negotiations - roughly what The Higgs Charity gives away in a year.
The case concerns negotiations over the club’s attempt to purchase the charity’s stake in Ricoh Arena management firm ACL - a joint venture company between the Higgs Charity and Coventry City Council.
Sisu's case is the charity must shoulder the blame for negotiations breaking down with the council after ACL and the city council agreed a deal which saw the council effectively become ACL’s mortgage lenders by buying the stadium company’s bank debt.
Club sources have said that Sisu paying off the bank debt was a key part of the discussions and that the club was forced out of a potential deal as a result of the council stepping in.
The case is likely to be heard by Mr Justice Leggatt and will see Birmingham-based barrister John Brennan, of St Philips Chambers, represent The Higgs Charity.
It is understood Sisu are likely to be represented by Rhodri Thompson QC of London-based Matrix Chambers.
The process is expected to last three days and tomorrow’s first session is likely to see Mr Justice Leggatt hear legal arguments from both parties before moving onto witness statements in the afternoon.
Among those to be called are likely to be Peter Knatchbull-Hugessen, clerk of the Higgs Charity, and Paul Harris, a trustee of the charity.
It is understood Laura Deering - who is believed to be Sisu boss Joy Seppala’s advisor - could also appear. Ms Seppala is not expected to be present during the proceedings.
One of the major legal arguments is likely to centre on the legitimacy of Sisu’s counter claim. Sisu is likely to maintain that their costs were at that level due to them being the pro-active party in the negotiations.
The Higgs Charity is likely to defend the counter-claim by suggesting much of the costs listed were incurred by parties which are not linked to Sisu directly - such as the wages of some club officials.
Pursuing the £29,000 from Sisu is believed to have already cost The Higgs Charity more than they stand to gain from the legal proceedings.
But Mr Knatchbull-Hugessen has previously stated the charity’s trustees have a responsibility to pursue money owed.
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-alan-edward-6900286
The Alan Edward Higgs Charity will face Coventry City owners Sisu at Birmingham High Court on Tuesday over costs incurred during failed negotiations.
The case centres on the charity’s claim for £29,000 based on a negotiation clause which it claims stated that if Ricoh Arena talks broke down Sisu would cover the charity’s costs accrued as part of the process.
However, Sisu is defending the claim and has brought a counter-claim against the charity - ten-times that amount at £290,000 for their own costs from the negotiations - roughly what The Higgs Charity gives away in a year.
The case concerns negotiations over the club’s attempt to purchase the charity’s stake in Ricoh Arena management firm ACL - a joint venture company between the Higgs Charity and Coventry City Council.
Sisu's case is the charity must shoulder the blame for negotiations breaking down with the council after ACL and the city council agreed a deal which saw the council effectively become ACL’s mortgage lenders by buying the stadium company’s bank debt.
Club sources have said that Sisu paying off the bank debt was a key part of the discussions and that the club was forced out of a potential deal as a result of the council stepping in.
The case is likely to be heard by Mr Justice Leggatt and will see Birmingham-based barrister John Brennan, of St Philips Chambers, represent The Higgs Charity.
It is understood Sisu are likely to be represented by Rhodri Thompson QC of London-based Matrix Chambers.
The process is expected to last three days and tomorrow’s first session is likely to see Mr Justice Leggatt hear legal arguments from both parties before moving onto witness statements in the afternoon.
Among those to be called are likely to be Peter Knatchbull-Hugessen, clerk of the Higgs Charity, and Paul Harris, a trustee of the charity.
It is understood Laura Deering - who is believed to be Sisu boss Joy Seppala’s advisor - could also appear. Ms Seppala is not expected to be present during the proceedings.
One of the major legal arguments is likely to centre on the legitimacy of Sisu’s counter claim. Sisu is likely to maintain that their costs were at that level due to them being the pro-active party in the negotiations.
The Higgs Charity is likely to defend the counter-claim by suggesting much of the costs listed were incurred by parties which are not linked to Sisu directly - such as the wages of some club officials.
Pursuing the £29,000 from Sisu is believed to have already cost The Higgs Charity more than they stand to gain from the legal proceedings.
But Mr Knatchbull-Hugessen has previously stated the charity’s trustees have a responsibility to pursue money owed.
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-alan-edward-6900286
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sw88
Chief Commentator!
So SISU are defending their side, rather than taking the charity to court. Not as bad as first assumed eh?
Big difference in figures though, most likely because of the solicitor firm used I suspect rather than either side being the more "pro active" side.
Wonder how this info has come to light. Considering part of it, I.e. Legal reps, are "assumed", including the judges name..... (Not sure of legal processes, and it may be publicly accessible)
Big difference in figures though, most likely because of the solicitor firm used I suspect rather than either side being the more "pro active" side.
Wonder how this info has come to light. Considering part of it, I.e. Legal reps, are "assumed", including the judges name..... (Not sure of legal processes, and it may be publicly accessible)
James Smith
Well-Known Member
No as I understand it they're counter claiming for £290,000 which is different to just defending it which they could have done. They could have just said in court with the supporting evidence that they didn't owe the Higgs £29,000 and left the Higgs to pick up the sisu costs if they'd won.
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SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
Names of legal reps and judge. More info on Sisu's counter-claim.
Info about cost to Higgs also.
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Nick
Administrator
Thanks, I was being lazy and couldn't remember what bits had come out in the past.
Do you get to go into the court or do you have to wait outside?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily but it might demonstrate the council's motives perhaps not just being about protecting a public asset
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
That's not new information. SISU have chosen to counter sue Higgs for 10 times the amount rather than just demand the case. Exactly as first assumed.
No future with SISU
New Member
To recover the money SISU owe them
You're wasting your time with Grendel. He believes that we should all be grateful to Shitzu for rescuing us from liquidation and putting us on the path of salvation.
SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
I'll be in there. For all three days, or however long it takes. It's open to the public.
Will aim to send regularly updates via the CT website. Signal and battery life permitting!
Will try and get the odd Tweet out too.
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Nick
Administrator
I know you are doing your job, but it sounds like boring work! Get some red bull!
SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
I can't say I'm thrilled at the prospect!
Will hopefully be interesting enough for you read it though
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Nick
Administrator
I can't say I'm thrilled at the prospect!
Will hopefully be interesting enough for you read it though
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bullet points for the simpletons like me
Are there laws on recording equipment in courts?
Looking forward to your reports.......Yawn......No really!I can't say I'm thrilled at the prospect!
Will hopefully be interesting enough for you read it though
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Rob S
Well-Known Member
It could be very interesting. If Sisu's legal people have had access to these 1000s of pages of documents (emails, letters etc.) that contain communications between ACL, AEHC, CCC and various individuals from around the time negotiations to buy out the AEHC share in ACL were taking place, they may have some interesting things to attach to their arguments as evidence which could then be in the public domain.
IF (and that's a big, massive if) there has been any subterfuge, scheming, dodgy deals or illegality – as has been alleged and alluded to over the past couple of years – then it could come out this week. If the allegations that ACL-related people were stringing Joy & co. along so that she'd keep the club afloat until they could move in and take over turn out to have some evidence to back them up..?
Well, as I said, it could be very interesting. Or just the same old, same old...
IF (and that's a big, massive if) there has been any subterfuge, scheming, dodgy deals or illegality – as has been alleged and alluded to over the past couple of years – then it could come out this week. If the allegations that ACL-related people were stringing Joy & co. along so that she'd keep the club afloat until they could move in and take over turn out to have some evidence to back them up..?
Well, as I said, it could be very interesting. Or just the same old, same old...
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
A pity that the "discovery of documents", cannot be made public prior to the hearing
Rob S
Well-Known Member
A pity that the "discovery of documents", cannot be made public prior to the hearing
I'm no lawyer but I think that would be contempt of court. I'm sure Simon (and a few other journalists) have tried to get a peek tho'
duffer
Well-Known Member
I'm confused - how could ACL/CCC/AEHC hope to take over if SISU continued to pay the bills? The only way SISU could have lost control of the club is via Administration, there's no other route for anyone to take over the club (other than selling at an agreed price), is there?
And if SISU were 'forced' into admin, as this presupposes, why did all of the assets conveniently shift out of CCFC Ltd in the period leading up to it? From where I'm sitting it looks an awful lot like SISU were preparing for Admin even as they were 'negotiating' a better rent. Who was really double-dealing here?
I think it will be an interesting case - I'm looking forward to hearing all about it.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
I'm still confused as to how the judge can rule on this without prejudicing the outcome of the JR.
I am a lawyer (in a different life however) and yes it would be contempt. But would make great reading!I'm no lawyer but I think that would be contempt of court. I'm sure Simon (and a few other journalists) have tried to get a peek tho'
The judge will rule on the facts of this particular case. He will not be concerned as to the JR.
SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
Bullet points for the simpletons like me
Are there laws on recording equipment in courts?
Not allowed!
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lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Fuck me, it's Petrocelli!
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
That's where I'm struggling to understand it then, as from what has been said, it sounds as though Sisu's defence is that Higgs knew of the alleged agreement between CCC and Sisu to distress YB. That however is a crucial part of the JR. If that cant be taken into account what other evidence can Sisu offer?
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
I'm not expecting Sisu to play fair in court.
Did a judge not condemn Joy for lying in court ?
Do we believe Sisu have been lying to the fans all along ?
Do we believe Jan is not lying on the latest trust v Sisu saga ?
Would Sisu concoct evidence to win this case and the JR ?
Did a judge not condemn Joy for lying in court ?
Do we believe Sisu have been lying to the fans all along ?
Do we believe Jan is not lying on the latest trust v Sisu saga ?
Would Sisu concoct evidence to win this case and the JR ?
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Have you worn out your exclamation mark key and having to make do with the question mark one now?
GaryPendrysEyes
Well-Known Member
You certainly havent used up your 'Smunt' quota.
yes.